Chatter

By Enough Of This Madness

January 10, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Hike alone? Sure. All the time. Reason? Colt Commander, small-frame, .45 caliber. Unobtrusive, and easily carried under a light jacket. ‘Nuff said.

By kalalu

January 10, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

I like to take my dog on walks but after recent kidnappings, I’m scared to even walk in my neighborhood. All it takes is the opportunity. People like Hilton are just looking for the chance. I have to go ‘walking’ at the gym to feel safe and even then post-workout I am extra cautious when walking to my car at night. It feels like nothing is safe anymore.

By Gary

January 10, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

buy a gun and learn how to use it. problem solved.

By chrissy

January 10, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

I think women should not be fearful of things because that would leave us staying in the house alone. I do think you should be VERY aware of your surroundings and treat everyone as if they may HARM you until you know them.

By H from Marietta

January 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

No need for a .45, a 32 or 380 or 9mm is better for concealability.

By Amy in the ATL

January 10, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

No, I don’t hike alone. However, I live in Atlanta and frequently jog and bike alone, sometimes at night. It makes me angry to think that we live in a society where women, children, the elderly and even men can be preyed upon by the opportunistic scum of the earth. These people are not just hurting their victims, the fear caused by their crimes limits our freedom to move around as we choose. As a woman, I get frustrated that I need to be escorted to my car in the evening, that I need to be afraid of being kidnapped in a mall parking lot, or that someone could be hiding in the woods ready to snatch me off a bike. How much freedom do we really have if we live in fear?

This story really hits home that not only do we need to look out for ourselves, we need to look out for others. If we see something suspicious, see a young woman approached by someone who looks a little sketchy, or see someone hassling a vulnerable individual, we need to be inquisitive and vigilant. If it doesn’t look right, it probably isn’t. Check in with the potential victims, call the cops, whatever action is most appropriate. It might just make a difference.

By Enough Of This Madness

January 10, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

H — that opens a can of worms, for sure. :o)

Granted, a .32 or .380 is better than nothing. But, I can’t imagine pulling mine unless I was deadly serious (pun intended), and then I’d want it to stop someone, without question. The .45’s a little heavier, but the Commander can be had with a lighter aluminum alloy frame, and is an inch shorter in the barrel and slide than the 1911 model. I know many women shy away from larger calibers, thinking recoil will be intimidating, but somehow I don’t find that to be the case with this .45 — more of a solid “push” than a hard slap. To each his own — just go to a range, and figure out what you’re comfortable with.

By John

January 10, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

If you’re concerned about carrying a pistol get some bear mace. You can always say “Opps, sorry.” if you’re in doubt and spray someone anyway.

By Diane

January 10, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

I’d never hike alone or even with my husband without both of us carrying some sort of protection. I don’t walk my dog in my own neighborhood now and we’re going to sell the brand new tent we’d gotten for camping.

The body count is rising daily and no one is safe anymore. No one. A gun can’t stop someone if they come from behind and bash you in the head.

By NATIVE

January 10, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

I often run or walk for exercise, and I am amazed at the people I encounter that are oblivious to what is going on around them. The other day I was walking down Piedmont Rd and I saw a couple walking along, not really looking around and certainly not looking straight ahead at me as I approached. When I got up to them, they had stopped and were looking at something across the street, totally unaware that I was upon them. They way that they were standing, I had no choice but to pass between them with the man on the right with his back to me, and the woman to my left facing me. It was incredible to see 2 people so totally unaware of what was going on around them. I’m almost surprised that the woman didn’t scream.

By Ann Barker

January 10, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

The scary thing is that the man was walking with a dog. All dog lovers usually stop and talk to the pet/owner.

What do we do now? I guess just carry pepper spray. Hopefully, it will at least blurr his vision long enough to get away.

By Julie W.

January 10, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

This murder is the reason why, as a woman, I never hike alone. I would feel far too vulnerable out on a remote trail by myself. Even having a dog along clearly does not protect you. It really makes me sad, because I love the peace and solitude of being out on a hiking trail. However, common sense these days dictates that I always hike with a group.

By desiree

January 10, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

I carry a springfeild xd 9mm, There is no reason to be afraid. People are animals and we have always been preyed upon by other animals. The more people in existence, the more we will have to prepare. There isn’t enough love in the world to keep people from becoming animals.

By Laura

January 10, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

I’ve been following this case closely because I have hiked on New Year’s Day alone, in the snow at the Shenandoah Forest. You would think only serious hikers would be out on a day like that. But with this case, you have to think twice. I carry a knife but am no match if overpowered. I’ve been attacked before—and mace was in my hand—but not a thought—I ended up with scrapes, but fought him off till he ran off. Still, we aren’t safe anywhere anymore, and the psychopaths would be the most worrisome because they gain your trust, right?

By CeCe

January 10, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Unless you have a gun not even mace but a gun…women should not hike alone. We are absolutely no match for a deranged killer or a FOOL! In this day and time we live in a world of uncertainty. Why even put yourself at risk…for what? And if you are foolish enough to put yourself at risk… carry a weapon a gun preferrably unless you’re an expert with a knife. Animals can easily be shot unfortunately so we must be proactive, prepared, and safe. Be safe people! Think and be prepared, criminals are always seeking the vulnerable and weak. Don’t be a victim..know your surroundings and don’t place yourself in unsafe situations. Yes we’d like to believe the best of people but welcome to the REAL WORLD! LIVE,LOVE,LAUGH,and be HAPPY in 2008! It’s still a wonderful world but a little preparation and thought makes it even better!

By gun or attack dog

January 10, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

I bought a cute little puppy that turned out to be a ferocious attack dog, so yes, I can, but it’s still scary. My dog that has been such a stressful liability is looking better each day now.

As for the guns - did you see the AJC reminded us today that carrying guns is illegal in Ga state parks? That’s a law worth breaking! We have serial killers in our woods, and the state doesn’t want lone females to be able to carry guns to protect themselves…..I want a full article on this written & published by TOMORROW!

By Enough Of This Madness

January 10, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I have several family members employed in law enforcement. They assure me that it is highly unlikely any park ranger, police officer or sheriff’s deputy is ever going to arrest or fine a woman hiking alone in the woods just because she admits she’s carrying a gun for protection. I’ll take my chances.

By dbick

January 10, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

carrying a gun is still no solution for someone who makes a surprise attack. no saying that was the case with Miss Emerson but for a lot of murders it is.

By dbick

January 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

carrying a gun is still no solution for someone who makes a surprise attack. no saying that was the case with Miss Emerson but for a lot of murders it is. She also had her dog with her who apparantly got in the car along with her and Hilton.

By never

January 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately, in the world we live in I would NEVER go hiking alone. There have been many times I wanted to go but had no one to go with me and I missed out on doing something enjoyable in nature. This was the case even before this horrible situation with Meredith. We’re all told in kindergarten don’t talk to strangers, and it still applies even after we’re adults. Oftentimes these predators can take advantage of a friendly, trusting person. I’m not blaming the victim, but I’m just saying - no I would not go hiking alone. For all the bravado, the karate training, etc. men are stronger than women and stuff happens.

By Native

January 10, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Diane, I am sorry that you find it necessary to sell your brand new tent because of this tragedy. Camping is such a fun activity and if we give in to these nuts then they win. Some one can break into your home as well. There are many wonderful campgrounds around that are manned with rangers that do checks during the day and night. Plus you are usually in close proximity to other campers who are there for the love of the outdoors. The amount of campers killed is so small especially when you look at the murders that occur in the ‘burbs an urban areas as well. don’t let these people steal your love of something, just be aware of those around you and your surroundings.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

There are alternatives to guns, some of which are just as effective.

A sharpened ski pole, for example. It serves as both a lightweight hiking stick and a foil-type sword if the need arises. I’ve had one for YEARS and it actually did save my life once. (On Mt. Leconte in Tennessee. I was just past the Alum Bluffs, not watching the trail. I stepped off the side of the trail - VERY steep at that point - and the pole got stuck between two trees.)

Sharpened hunting knife is also a good thing to carry for a variety of reasons. Never know what kind of emergencies are going to appear on the trail, and a good knife is generally your best friend in most of them.

A heavy flashlight (such as a large Maglight) can also serve as a blunt instrument in a fight.

Thin (1/2” diameter) steel rods in your coat/ taped to your arm can allow your arms to be used as shields more effectively, and this is good for everything from knife attacks to falling rocks. It can even be used offensively if you train properly.

And there’s always mace/ pepper spray. Get the strongest you can find, and get a variety of bottle sizes. Hide them in as many places on your person/ in your gear as you are comfortable with.

But the single biggest point in regards to any of these:

Don’t hesitate to use them if a situation makes you uncomfortable. The biggest reason attackers are successful is because they have the element of surprise and by the time a person reacts it is too late. Train your body to react in milliseconds to ANY situation. Rehearse the various actions over and over again in a variety of training scenarios to get good muscle memory programmed for them. Then, when you actually NEED to use the maneuvers, they are ‘instinct’.

By JJ

January 10, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

I will not allow fear to run my life. I will life my live and do the things that I enjoy.

I have two BIG dogs, and walk them every day, either in my neighborhood, over to an elementary school close by, or any of the 7 parks in my area. I do not walk at night, or after 8:00 p.m., unless I stay in my neighborhood and it is very well lit and rather active. While I haven’t hiked in the mountains in about two years, I will do that again in the spring.

You must pay attention to your surroundings, be aware of what’s around you, and trust no one when you are out alone.

That, and I would NEVER take my dogs off a leash while walking them. If anything were to happen, I want them close by. I have two big 80 pound dogs, and they stick to me like glue.

By BB

January 10, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Yes, always have, always will. This country thrives on fear and the media perpetuates it. Life is a risk from the moment we rise to the moment we go to bed. I hike with or w/o my dog, travel internationally to do so, thru-hiked solo, involved with the long distance hiking community. Very sad to see the only folks posting here are the ones living in fear, most of the hikers who are in contact over this are not going to change habits.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

BB:

If anything, the only change I make is by carrying more gear on the trail with me.

With every single piece of gear I carry having both a genuine hiking purpose as well as an offensive/ defensive capability.

Note: While I generally favor guns (I would go with a .45, for the record), my wife won’t allow me to have any. Hence the reason I constantly look for items that fit with the activity but could also serve as a weapon should the need arise.

By Nan

January 10, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

I think the fearful reactions people are displaying above are typical of the way we all can fall prey to saturation media coverage of a tragedy. There have always been muggings, rapes, murders, and other violent crimes. They can happen anywhere, any time. Are they worse now than, for example, 20 years ago? No. If you take the time to look at the actual statistics, there have been no dramatic changes. We see one case, and suddenly we’re seeing psychopaths behind every bush. We’ve allowed the media to turn us into a nation of fricking cowards trembling at the mere possibility of something bad happening sometime in the unknowable future. Sure, something bad is possible, but is it Probable?

More people die hiking due to their stupidity every year than are ever going to be threatened by criminals. People die from dehydration when they hike in hot weather without carrying sufficient water with them, they die from hypothermia when they hike in cold or wet weather without proper gear, they fall off trails, they try to wade creeks that are in flood, and they succumb to a myriad of other accidents. Instead of worrying about carrying guns or mace, hikers would be better served investing in the right gear and using common sense.

By Midtown Gal

January 10, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Well this isn’t hiking, but I live in Midtown and on the weekends I jog to LA fitness 4 blocks away from my house to work out, always in the middle of the day. In the middle of the day I feel fairly safe, but if it’s cold or rainy I drive. This past weekend with this story in the news it makes me aware of how much impact an individual can have by reporting something out of the ordinary (ie someone called in Hilton’s tag number to the police). So on my drive home I noticed a really scuzzy looking vagrant right around Midtown Plaza area drinking what appeared to be liquor out of a brown bag while twirling a huge metal crowbar like it was a baton. Well I called Midtown Blue to report him and the woman asked, “well have you witnessed a crime?” like I was judging an innocent man walking down the street. No, I did not witness him committing a crime, but I’d be willing to bet $1,000 he was up to no good DRUNK with a CROWBAR! Anyway I was very disappointed in the dispatcher’s disinterest in my concerns. She said she’d send someone to go check it out…..It certainly won’t prevent me from reporting future suspicious people though…….

By Dayna

January 10, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

I have hiked many times with my young daughter and our two little dogs in remote areas. Often we would come across male hikers alone with their dogs, and we would simply talk to the hikers and pet their dogs. I have already told my daughter that from now on, we can only go to highly populated parks, or hike with larger groups of people.

By GA Dawg

January 10, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

I carry a 6.5 in Bowie knife when I hike.

By Russ

January 10, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Jeff wrote:

“While I generally favor guns, my wife won’t let me have any.”

Hopefully you won’t wind up with this as an epitaph on your tombstones.

To be honest I’d be embarrassed to even admit that.

We all know that many women have an irrational fear of guns.

I’ve always found this ironic since they’re the ones most likely to be attacked, murdered and/or raped, while conversely being the least able to defend themselves.

Jeff, not be to harsh, but I know you realize your first duty is to protect your family. Don’t let your wifes irrational fear stop you from doing that. Be the man, step up and do what you need to do.

Jesus, what the hell has happened to us?

By kerry

January 10, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Had planned on going up to Amicolola this spring with my 85 pound Lab who hates strangers. Was really looking forward to the trip, but I have to say, this has soured me a bit on it. Logically, I’m aware that this is giving in to fear and fearmongers, but my survival instinct is stronger. Regardless of what you carry, someone can always get you with the element of surprise.

I am deeply, deeply saddened by this and have been unable to shake it. What type of world is this when a woman cannot just go for a walk with her dog for some peace and quiet without being brutally murdered. Just a terrible tragedy…

By Mom

January 10, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Has anyone seen much coverage on the disappearance of yet another young woman from Athens?

Cayle Bywater, last seen December 29th around 4 PM with her dog in Memorial Park. The dog was found wandering loose in the same park the next day, minus owner and leach….No one has seen or heard from her since.

More information can be found at onlineathens.com

Here’s the link to the family website, my daughter sent me:

www.findcayle.org

By mots54

January 10, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Gun or attackdog, what kind of dog do you have? I am just curious. Did it just not get teh socializing it needed? I know it is off topic, I am just an avid dog lover and am curious.

By Alex

January 10, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Nan, I carry a gun, but I don’t worry about it. Why? Because I have trained with it and I know my abilities. Just like a gun, simply having the right gear won’t save you. You have to train with it and learn how to use it. There will always be stupid people who die because they did stupid things like not bringing more than a 12oz bottle of water or not wearing appropriate layers. And there will be some people that are victims of criminals because they don’t have the means to defend themselves. Unfortunately, psychopaths like Hilton are incredibly hard to defend against. I do know this though, having a proper jacket or water filter isn’t going to help you fight off a criminal.

By Earl

January 10, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

I don’t go to the crapper without my GLOCK so i sure as hell wouldn’t walk in the woods without at least one 9mm. I am not one of the types that purchases a gun and puts it away to get dusty and rusty. I fire off a thousand rounds on average per month at the firing range. If I pull my weapon, you’re going to get shot.

By Pass this along - PLEASE

January 10, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Cayle Bywater missing!

www.findcayle.org

Missing 29 year old woman - last seen December 29 in Memorial Park in Athens.

By Pass this along - PLEASE

January 10, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Cayle Bywater missing!

www.findcayle.org

Missing 29 year old woman - last seen December 29 in Memorial Park in Athens.

By Pass this along - PLEASE

January 10, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Cayle Bywater missing!

www.findcayle.org

Missing 29 year old woman - last seen December 29 in Memorial Park in Athens.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

A two man team consisting of a super-flashlight (1.5 million candlepower or above, according to my definition) and a blunt instrument - hiking stick, baseball bat, golf club, lead pipe, you get the idea - can be just as effective in a household situation as a gun, AND you don’t have to worry about the bullet going through walls and having unintended consequences.

Of course, you have to train for these situations just as much as one would train for hitting a dime from 200yards with a .45…

By Atlanta Pearl Girl

January 10, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Very frightened…..

By Concerned

January 10, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Only reference to this missing person case was in the AJC on 1/7/08. This needs to be front page until this woman is found!!!

Excerpt from AJC:

In a more recent missing persons case Cayle Bywater was last seen with her dog at Memorial Park in Athens on the afternoon of Dec. 29, according to Athens-Clarke County police.

Bywater did not show up for work later that evening, and her dog was seen unattended and running loose in the park on Gran Ellen Drive in Athens the next day, police said. No family members or friends have reported any contact with Bywater since Dec. 29.

By Captain Tom

January 10, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Being armed with a handgun is not smart UNLESS you have received training in how to use it. I is not to be flashed to scare someone. If you pull it you should be prepared to shoot to kill the person you are pulling it on. With no training most women and men for that matter would have the gun taken away from them and turned against them. Be Safe…

By Mary

January 10, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

I feel safer on a remote hiking trail alone or with my dog than I do in downtown Atlanta after dark.

By kristin

January 10, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

I will continue to run and hike by myself. I try to be aware of my surroundings and exercise caution. I am not going to live my life in fear of what could possiably happen. It is not realistic to belive that there is someone sitting in the bushes just waiting for you to happen along.

THis was a HORRIABLE tragedy and I wish nothing but suffering to Hinton.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Captian Tom:

I completely agree.

And most that have the gun ‘for protection’ only do NOT have the training needed to wield it effectively for the stated reason of ownership.

By Long Range Hiker

January 10, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

I was camping and hiking with a friend out west deep in the Bitteroot wilderness of Idaho when we came upon a scrawny little woman hiking along the trail by herself. She was about 5’ 1” and weighed about 85 lbs. However she also had three mean looking dogs, 2 pack goats and a Glock strapped to her side. She said she camped all summer long, about 2 months, by herself, and her husband occasinally joined her on weekends. We asked is she was ever scared and she laughed and patted the Glock and said “Not with this baby around”. She was extremely confindent and very aware of her surroundings. I admire a woman who knows her way around a firearm. If you get a gun for self protection make sure you take lessons on safety and learn how to shoot it well and with authority.

By ron

January 10, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

I’m an older man who hikes alone.I carry a single action Ruger Blackhawk ,chambered in .45 Long colt,which I handload to howitzer power.My standard joke is;if I point this at someone and pull the trigger,one of us is going to get hurt bad.I am very proficient with it.

By TC

January 10, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

WAKE UP!!! It’s plain and simple, we live in a society now where we as people cannot go out hiking, jogging, biking, or walking alone people! Everything has changed. I have a gun as well and I’m a female and I do go to the shooting range. But take someone with you. Yes you may walk with your dog, but as you can see Ela was very friendly. My deepest symphathies to Merediths family during this difficult time.

By TC

January 10, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

WAKE UP!!! It’s plain and simple, we live in a society now where we as people cannot go out hiking, jogging, biking, or walking alone people! Everything has changed. I have a gun as well and I’m a female and I do go to the shooting range. But take someone with you. Yes you may walk with your dog, but as you can see Ela was very friendly. My deepest symphathies to Merediths family during this difficult time.

By JJ

January 10, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

TC I’m sorry, but I don’t feel that way at all. I go to alot of places alone, and I feel very safe. I walk my dogs alone, I shop alone, I do alot on my own, and I am not at all afraid. I refuse to be afraid. There are bad people everywhere you go. But you cannot allow these people to control your life.

It’s an outcry when someone gets killed doing something simple as hiking in the mountains. Yet, kids and adults are gunned down every single day in our city, just recently an 18 year old boy was stabbed to death in his own front yard!!! There was a drive by in Norcross where a young man was gunned down. Does that make you afraid to drive? Does it make you afraid to go in your front yard? If so, then someone you do not know has control over you and you are the one that looses.

Pay attention to your surroundings. Do not fish your keys out of your purse as you walk through the parking lot. Have then in your hands when you leave the store. I carry mine in my pocket. Keys, if held between your fingers, can be one heck of a weapon.

By JOHN

January 10, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

I HAVE FOLLOWED THE EMERSON CASE AND IM SO SORRY AO HEAR WHAT HAS PERSPIRED! LAW OR NOT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I WILL ALWAYS HAVE A FIREARM IN MY BACKPACK FROM NOW ON. I WOULD RATHER PAY A FINE FOR HAVING ILLEGAL FIREARM IN STATE PARK THAN NO BE ABLE TO SHOOT SOMEONE IF I HAVE TO. TALK TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVES ON CHANGING THE LAW ON WEAPONS IN PARKS!

By Denny

January 10, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

I have been hiking in the north Georgia mountains since 1965, both with groups and alone. I have never carried a weapon, although I own several. In October 2004, at age 59, I walked the length of the Appalachian Trail in Georgia alone, camping every night by myself. Over the years I have nearly stepped on more rattle snakes and copperheads than I can remember. I have jummped a few bears. This recent, terrible tragedy saddenes me enormously. It will not keep me from going back to the mountains I love alone. Solitude there gives me an inner perspective I do not find anywhere else. Good article, Bo.

By scarystuff

January 10, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

When I was younger, my boyfriend and I used to go up to the north GA mountains every weekend to explore as many remote areas as we could.

One time, we were up at Dicks Creek (which is near Blood Mountain)….we drove back to “our spot”, crossed over the river, and hiked up to a remote location with a beautiful natural waterfall that dropped into a natural spring, and it even had a “natural waterslide” that went down the side of the waterfall.

While we were up there (and thought we were alone!), we met 2 men who claimed to be locals…They befriended us and we hung out and had a couple beers and relaxed on the rocks with them in the sun. Then one of them asked my boyfriend if he wanted to try the natural waterslide, and they hiked up the hill to the top of the waterfall. I sat there on the rocks with the other man and watched as my boyfriend wobbled strangely and then headed down the slide, and not gracefully! Once he dropped in the water, he immediately swam over and grabbed me and told me that we had to leave NOW…we took off, and he preceded to tell me that the man who was with him at the top of the falls tried to push him over the edge of the cliff. I remember thinking it looked like he was wobbling up at the top and almost fell, but didn’t realize this man had tried to kill him! He was thankfully able to catch his footing and then just jumped onto the slide and went down.

That scenario alone has always made me realize that being alone with others in the middle of NOWHERE is a scary thing.

Also, I remember us being back up in that area another time, and I had to pee in the woods…..looked over and up the hill while “squatting”, as us women do, to find a strange man (who looked at dishoveled and gross) crotched behind some bushes, eyeing me down…..in a scary, “Deliverance” sort of way.

Needless to say, I haven’t been hiking or camping up in north GA since. Too creepy, even with a strong, atheltic man there to protect you.

BE SAFE!

By Kara

January 10, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

I agree with Gary. Learn how to use a gun and then carry it.

By Hiker Dave

January 10, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

If you think a gun is going to save you, especially a concealed one, you should stop watching Jodi Foster movies. First of all, who’s to say the criminal isn’t going to be armed? And who’s to say he’s going to be that obvious about his intent? Even a robber will know enough to win over your trust or catch you off guard. Don’t think a gun will save you, which is not saying I am against guns but they rarely save those unused to using them. The main thing about being in the woods is being aware of your surroundings and not entering unknown turf alone. Why would anyone go into a remote forest by themself? It’s only asking for trouble. Even seasoned hikers know better. Not saying your’re asking for it, but in this day and age, it’s an invitation for trouble. Sad, but true. Conclusion: hike in groups!

By Hiker Dave

January 10, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

If you think a gun is going to save you, especially a concealed one, you should stop watching Jodi Foster movies. First of all, who’s to say the criminal isn’t going to be armed? And who’s to say he’s going to be that obvious about his intent? Even a robber will know enough to win over your trust or catch you off guard. Don’t think a gun will save you, which is not saying I am against guns but they rarely save those unused to using them. The main thing about being in the woods is being aware of your surroundings and not entering unknown turf alone. Why would anyone go into a remote forest by themself? It’s only asking for trouble. Even seasoned hikers know better. Not saying your’re asking for it, but in this day and age, it’s an invitation for trouble. Sad, but true. Conclusion: hike in groups!

By Kara

January 10, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

I don’t think a gun will save me. I know a gun will. One has and will again.

By Kara

January 10, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

I don’t think a gun will save me. I know a gun will. One has and will again.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Kara:

I have been armed with nothing more than a hiking stick and was STILL able to disarm a man armed with a gun - even though HE attacked ME completely out of the blue.

The weapon doesn’t make you superior in any given situation. That chunk of gray matter that resides behind your eyeballs DOES.

By John in Tampa, FLA

January 10, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Scared to hike alone? I’m scared to walk in parts of Atlanta, Tampa, Miami, etc. while NOT alone.

By Kara

January 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Good for you Jeff. I’m proud of you. Just curious….what happened to the gun that you disarmed? Did you let him pick it back up…or did you pick it up to protect yourself? If you let him pick it back up…maybe you should worry about the chunk of gray matter that resides behind your eyeballs.

By Alex

January 10, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Jeff, congrats on your hiking stick ninja skills, but most people don’t have those abilities. Run that situation over and over again, and you’ll find that there’s a decent number of times where the person with the stick loses. I’d say it’s majority of times, but perhaps you disagree. If you disarmed him, then he was stupid, not proficient with his weapon, and probably not firing his gun into your body while he was attacking.

If guns are so ineffective at protection, then why are all police officers armed with guns? They have batons and OC spray as well, but they have guns for a very good reason.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Kara:

I picked it up for disposal.

TRUST me, although I am pretty decent with guns in video game environments (even on my Wii), I have no illusions as to my abilities with them in the real world, where the most powerful that I have personally fired is a Co2 powered BB gun.

HOWEVER, put a stick and/ or bladed instrument in my hands…. people that have encountered me in a fight with such a weapon haven’t liked the results, I’ll put it that way.

By hello dog lover!

January 10, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Hi - to answer your question - cute little dog was a “yellow lab” for $25 from a humane society foster mom. Cutest little lab ever! Then, every day, his head got squarer and squarer….his whole cranium changed, and the pit bull came out! He wouldn’t let a trainer in the house. As a 6 week old, he would jump up and latch on to the necks of HUGE dogs, wanting to take them on. That was our first sign! He’s bitten before. He’s a GOOD looking dog, and lives 24hrs to fight to the death to protect our kids. However, that can be a problem!!! Or, not. Liability is sooooo stressful. The protection is so comforting. We have to take them both, right now. I’ve been given the name of the ONE trainer our vet thinks could get to him, but she’s $300 for the wknd. What we need is just a ‘sign’ or ‘code word’ - yes, that person’s okay; or, no, that person’s not. In his mind, everyone’s a ‘no.’ But not even he could protect me fully if I went walking alone - he, too, could get shot!

By kara

January 10, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I’m sure you disposed of the gun but kept the stick. I’m also pretty sure that stick is not what kept him from attacking you a second time…but the gun that you intended to dispose of. Keep sticking Jeff.

By so nice of you to blame the victime

January 10, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Hiker Dave: Why would anyone go into a remote forest by themself? It’s only asking for trouble.

I’m sure her friends and family appreciate that comment.

She was walking her dog in the MIDDLE OF THE DAY on one of Georgia’s MOST POPULAR AND POPULATED trails!!!

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Alex:

Actually it is simply a lost art. Same mistake people have been making for hundreds of years. Thinking that because a gun as a better reach than a club/blade type weapon, it is automatically superior.

ALL weapons have advantages/ disadvantages. What makes a weapon superior is the brain of the person wielding it.

If cops were trained in using other weapons as much as they are trained in using their guns, you would see negligible difference between any of the weapons they use. The difference is that current practice is to train heavily on gun tactics and MAYBE hand to hand and only give lip service to the baton, pepper spray, and flash light.

By Southern Bella

January 10, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

To the 2:59 poster who said it was a most populated trail… Um, have you been there? If it were THAT populated, I doubt the event would have occurred.

It is a tragedy and I feel terribly for her family and friends.

I just think that in today’s well-informed, crime-ridden world, it is STUPID to go hiking alone.

My condolences…

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Kara:

Actually, what kept him from attacking again was that in the process of defending myself, I broke the guy’s hand (the hand that at the time was holding the gun). Once he was on the ground, I made sure he knew that if he attacked ANYONE again and I found out about it, he REALLY wouldn’t like the results.

I used my hiking stick as a golf driver and his testes as a golf ball to reinforce my point. I must say that even though I’m not a golfer, I think that shot would have went pretty far.

He got the point.

By Alex

January 10, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Hiker Dave, so even though I have spent hundreds of dollars on realistic training, gone through close to a thousand on ammo for my carry gun over the past few years, and I practice being proficient with my guns as a constant hobby, I should not expect my gun or my abilities with it to possibly save me because my attacker might be armed? Especially if I am concealing it? P…uh…lease! I guess I should just give up b/c the other guy might have a weapon!

Situational awareness is #1 on the list and the simple act of carrying a gun won’t save you. You must be proficient with your equipment AND your brains to survive, but to say that a gun can’t possibly save someone being attacked is foolish. Not everyone can put the time or money into shooting that I can, but at very close ranges a person with minimal training can be devastating with a revolver. And most people are not idiots that think movies are real.

By Phyllis

January 10, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

The death of Ms. Emerson has touched the depths of our souls. Predators are everywhere and we must always be cognizant of our surroundings and people. Let me just say that I hike in groups and always with (2) men - Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson. Concealed, illeagal in a State Park, but at least I have an equalizer.

By Kara

January 10, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

He also knew you had a gun.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Kara:

Having a gun is one thing. Having bullets for said gun is a different animal… TRUST me, he didn’t attack again because I taught him not to properly.

Alex:

Situational awareness is #1 on the list and the simple act of carrying a gun won’t save you. You must be proficient with your equipment AND your brains to survive

Probably the single best statement of the day.

By Earl

January 10, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Hiker Dave, stick to your granola bars and raisins. I spent 28 years in the Marines, I damn well know guns. I attended sniper school, the whole nine yards. If guns are not effective, why the hell do we fight wars with them? Most anti-gun zealots have never held a firearm, never shot a gun or ever visited a firing range. If you own a gun, educate and familarize yourself with it. A gun is not a toy, you don’t show your guns to your friends, you keep them in a place that’s safe and away from kids. If you think for one second a man will back down from a stick in your hand faster than with a gun, you’ve been hitting the pipe too much pal. If you don’t think you can follow through and actually execute the shot, then don’t pull a gun on another person. But, if you aim at the biggest body part, and don’t play the fool and try to just wound someone, and you squeeze the trigger, the bad guys is going to fall down in front of you, dead.

By Alex

January 10, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I agree that blade and stick weapons can be incredibly nasty at close ranges! If someone has the slightest idea how to use a knife and they get within 21 feet of you, then you are getting cut almost regardless of how fast your draw is with a gun from open carry or concealment. I’ve seen the results in person in a Hapkido class where the instructor decided to have a fun demonstration day. I do not wish to mess with someone skilled with blades or blunt instruments!

However, guns allow someone who has far less training in a lost art to defend themselves against someone intent on doing them harm. They must be trained in the use of that firearm, but at least out in the woods an errant bullet has far less probability of striking an innocent bystander than in downtown Atlanta. That’s no excuse for not training though.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Earl:

We fight wars with guns because they inflict the most damage on the most people in the fastest amount of time with the most efficiency of a hand held weapon in well trained hands.

I hold that the average attacker is no (I may grant LITTLE) better trained with the weapon than the person he is attacking. The average attacker also typically has little knowledge of close quarters tactics other than to attack by surprise and attack in a secluded area, preferably at night.

In such a situation, a good knowledge of hand to hand combat CAN get you out of the situation. Such knowledge combined with even a club/ blade type weapon - and how to use it - means that I’m fairly confident that the defender gets away with less damage than the attacker.

To truly be used effectively, a gun must be used outside the range of any weapon the defender may have - therein lies its greatest strength.

Most attackers don’t realize this, instead putting the gun within arms reach of the defender at some point in the battle.

As soon as that happens, assuming the defender knows how to take advantage of it, the advantage goes to the defender.

By Cobby

January 10, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

My wife and I recently hiked on Blood Mountain—- around Neils Gap. We met some many people.We now wonder if one of them was that monster???

By Donna P.

January 10, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I haven’t hiked or walked alone since 1985. I was living in Northern Virginia and walking on a local bike trail that went through some neighborhoods and had some isolated areas. A man approached me and asked if I had the time and I told him what time it was. He seemed “weird” so I continued to walk and then I started jogging away. Later that day, a young woman was found raped and dead near the bike trail. I called the police and told them of my encounter with this man. They came to my house and took my statement and his description. I later found out that this “weird” guy was the rapist/killer. I testified at his trial about seeing him on the trail that day. Since then, I NEVER walk/hike alone. I still enjoy the outside but I take along my husband and/or dog. Be safe and aware at all times.

By Kerry

January 10, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

As a single woman, I have to go about my daily routine, but this has changed me. I feel safe in my neighborhood and safe in my house, but now, i am seriously thinking of getting a gun. My dad bought one for me a couple of years ago, but I promptly told him to get lost. Not so much anymore.

Yes, it’s the fear talking, but so be it. My large dog can only save me from so much.

By friendly-fred

January 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

You have lunatics in every facet of society,everywhere.It’s immature and ignorant to fear hiking when the next fool,as you suspected,works along-side of you!

By Donna P.

January 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

I haven’t hiked or walked alone since 1985. I was living in Northern Virginia and walking on a local bike trail that went through some neighborhoods and had some isolated areas. A man approached me and asked if I had the time and I told him what time it was. He seemed “weird” so I continued to walk and then I started jogging away. Later that day, a young woman was found raped and dead near the bike trail. I called the police and told them of my encounter with this man. They came to my house and took my statement and his description. I later found out that this “weird” guy was the rapist/killer. I testified at his trial about seeing him on the trail that day. Since then, I NEVER walk/hike alone. I still enjoy the outside but I take along my husband and/or dog. Be safe and aware at all times.

By Donna P.

January 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

I haven’t hiked or walked alone since 1985. I was living in Northern Virginia and walking on a local bike trail that went through some neighborhoods and had some isolated areas. A man approached me and asked if I had the time and I told him what time it was. He seemed “weird” so I continued to walk and then I started jogging away. Later that day, a young woman was found raped and dead near the bike trail. I called the police and told them of my encounter with this man. They came to my house and took my statement and his description. I later found out that this “weird” guy was the rapist/killer. I testified at his trial about seeing him on the trail that day. Since then, I NEVER walk/hike alone. I still enjoy the outside but I take along my husband and/or dog. Be safe and aware at all times.

By Alex

January 10, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

And please pardon my combativeness on this subject at the moment. I don’t mean to be a jerk. I’m just a wee bit unhappy in general because of this story, as are most of y’all. This whole mess has caused incredible pain to Meredith and her family and my deepest condolences go out to them. That should have been my first post.

And keep your eyes pealed for Cayle Bywater! I hope her story ends much better.

www.findcayle.org

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Alex:

Interesting fact:

I believe it was up until the Civil War (I could be wrong on the exact war here), men carried both guns and blades.

The guns were for what they were good for: reaching out and touching someone. But their main disadvantage was the slow reload time. You COULDN’T use them in close quarters because of how long it took to reload.

The blades were used for situations where the battle was much closer and quicker paced.

But both were carried and both were used as appropriate.

Not a bad stragegy, even in modern times…

By Alex

January 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Jeff, there’s a very good reason why bayonets are still standard issue. A bayonet can’t be emptied like a magazine. But, my money is still on the guy with the loaded gun on average.

At close quarters you probably will have to grapple/bite/kick/punch etc before you get an opportunity to get your gun, but realistic firearms training takes that into consideration. There’s a time to go for the gun, and there’s a time to shove your hiking pole into their stomach. Proper training involves knowing the difference between them.

By Don't Hike Alone

January 10, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

What’s going on (Meaning: Hello),

Just a quick comment, I pray for the people who have been robbed, rape and killed on nature trails - rest in peace.

Bottom line, its not wise to hike alone. Obviously, dogs, guns, hand to hand combat training is not enough.

You need a safety plan, escape plan and common sense.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Alex:

HOPEFULLY the discussion about guns vs no guns will help EVERYONE.

For those that would prefer guns, it helps to show that they are not infallible.

For those that don’t like guns, it helps to show what types of things can be used in what settings.

For EVERYONE it helps to show that you need to be prepared to use whatever you happen to be packing.

By NICK

January 10, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Any woman that goes hiking alone (dog or not) is an idiot.

What happened to Meredith Emerson is aweful, but ladies, use your heads, even if you have a dog or a fire arm, you still look vulnerable to a predator.

By Baba

January 10, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

I live in Florida. This case about Meredith has broken my heart. We love our beaches as you do your mountains. As a child I used to enjoy evening walks on the beach. This was the 1960’s mind you but one of life’s great pleasures for me was walking on the beach at night enjoying the stars and the surf. My parents didn’t have a moments worry about a young girl walking alone back then. Today we have lots of creepy guys who live under the boardwalks and in the sand dunes. Most are harmless but almost all show some signs of mental illness. Needless to say it is suicidal for a woman or a MAN to venture out on a Florida beach at night in 2008!! So sad but so true.

By Carla

January 10, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

As a former police officer, guns don’t matter if you are caught by surprise or attacked from behind. You can be disabled before you even remember to reach for your gun. It happens to police officers sometimes, and I’ve also seen the outcome when it happens to civilians.

By elBubba

January 10, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

I’ll try to be brief.

When I was in college in the mid-80’s my girlfriend and I had a pit-bull that I adopted out of sympathy, it had been adopted and returned because it killed some chickens. I could tell it was a good dog.

One of the best dogs I ever owned and I was never afraid for GF to go anywhere alone at night. Much better than any other option mentioned here.

Having said that, one really needs to be a dog person to know and handle a pit-bull. If you are considering this, buy the whole “Dog Whisperer” DVD set first.

This dog was so cool it could be taken to oudoor college type events with lots of people and dogs, but if anyone ever would have tried to touch the GF their throat would have been ripped out. A dog can think and act on its own.

El Bubba

By Bren

January 10, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

As I read somewhere else about this terrible case, we are not safe anywhere in society nowadays….neither city nor country. However, there are some places that are safer than others…and these trails usually are safer than being in a big city alone at night, which is why it is so tragic what happened. My husband/family and I have camped for years in the remote Chattahoochee National Forest and we always take our .38 with us…I feel too vulnerable without it. We practice shooting it often. It’s sad that society has brought it to this, but the thugs out there have made it this way. We live in Dahlonega and it is just awful that this had to happen over in our back yard.

By El Bubba

January 10, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

I have to say that again. A dog can think and act on its own, and it’s not in your pocket.

El Bubba

By Joanie

January 10, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Yes, I do hike and ride my horse alone, but am aware of what is going on around me. If someone approaches me and the hair on the back of my neck stands up I go with my gut feeling. Putting my hand up and saying “STOP I don’t have anything you need or want”. I had to do that once while getting gas off of Route 95 in South Carolina at 2AM. It works, believe me, but it doesn’t hurt to also take Mr Smith & Wesson with you. I have a conceal carry permit in my state, but feel that it should be good for all states that have conceal carry permits. I don’t leave home without it.

By Joanie

January 10, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Yes, I do hike and ride my horse alone, but am aware of what is going on around me. If someone approaches me and the hair on the back of my neck stands up I go with my gut feeling. Putting my hand up and saying “STOP I don’t have anything you need or want”. I had to do that once while getting gas off of Route 95 in South Carolina at 2AM. It works, believe me, but it doesn’t hurt to also take Mr Smith & Wesson with you. I have a conceal carry permit in my state, but feel that it should be good for all states that have conceal carry permits. I don’t leave home without it.

By Tom

January 10, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

I don’t get it. I see single women on the Silver Comet almost every day biking and jogging with their headphones on and no clue as to what else is going on around them. Are they being stubborn or just oblivious?

By john

January 10, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Enough Of This Madness

couldn’t have said it better. It was my first thought. Sig .40 S&W.

By El Bubba

January 10, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

A good dog, like the one I described, would sense the attack. If a guy happened to catch you by surprise, from behind, the dog would be all over him.

You have all seen attack dogs on videos. The dog works when you might not be able to.

By jeff

January 10, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

A gun is not the answer. In this case, the lady knew karate. Being unaware, bending over petting a dog, then getting hit on the head from behind, get knocked out, your gun is pretty useless.

By jeff

January 10, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

What good is a gun going to do you? If y ou bend over to pet this guy’s dog, then he waps you over the head and you’re knocked out, your gun will just arm your assailant while he finds it as he’s tying you up.

By jeff

January 10, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

What good is a gun going to do you? If y ou bend over to pet this guy’s dog, then he waps you over the head and you’re knocked out, your gun will just arm your assailant while he finds it as he’s tying you up.

By jeff

January 10, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

Oh. And join ASH (Atlanta Single Hikers) or FunHikes.

By leslie

January 10, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

I don’t live in Atlanta any more but read AJC online daily. It dismays me to see the area I hiked in, camped in, and enjoyed so much getting to the point where it’s just not safe to be out alone.

I live in north Florida and quit walking outside alone many years ago. I’ll still ride my bicycle because I can outride anyone on foot. But I have hearing loss due to early childhood measles, and I can’t hear people coming up behind me. If we were to camp again, I don’t know that I’d ever do it in a tent.

Sad but true - things just aren’t safe any more.

By Packing?

January 10, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

I often jog alone, but try to go to populated areas where I can see people & they can see me if someone should try to attack. I keep one of my ipod buds out at all times so I can hear anyone who might approach. I guess now I’ll just need to have a whole bunch of jogging shirts printed up that say something like “I’m packing more than a punch or a lunch.” Or maybe, like a sign that I’ve read at a friend’s house “I don’t call 911” and it has a picture of a gun underneath it. At least keep potential attackers guessing….

By Mike

January 10, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

I carry a gun like most of you. However, by law it is ILLEGAL to carry in the most of places that you all are mentioning. State Parks are off-limits in this state. A group call georgia carry www.georgiacarry.com is trying to change that. People don’t be stupid and become a victim. Get a firearm and more importantly learn how to use it and pay attention to your surrounding. A women should never be in the woods by herself un armed.. It’s just asking for trouble.

By ron

January 10, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Jeff,Never be the only one at a gun fight with a knife.

By A-Ville

January 10, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Carrying a gun in a state park in Georgia is illegal. My dad always says, “If you have a gun, soon enough you are going to find a reason to use it.” The fact is, something like this could happen anywhere - while hiking on a trail, walking in the parking lot of the grocery store, or literally in your own backyard. Look at the inncidents of children being abducted from their bedrooms. Living in fear is not the answer - caring about all memebers of our community is. Clearly the attacker in this case had a history of mental instability, and many people in various communities in Georgia has witnessed this. Instead of ignoring people such as this, and thinking they are not “our problem,” we should realize that taking care of everyone in our society is the best interest of society. If someone had paid more attention to this man earlier, he could have been taken off the streets and placed in a mental health facility.

By HS Teacher

January 11, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

As a single older woman it is go by myself or stay home. I too pack “heat” and am trained to do so. I have walked some desolate areas in the metro area but always check to see that my cell phone gets a signal. No headphones, stay alert, keep a whistle in my pocket, and always finish while it is daytime. Even some areas of The Path are isolated.

Yes, a Glock is better than a dog.
Only shot what you plan to eat or is getting ready to hurt you. That is how I was taught how I trained my children. My late husband was always armed no matter where he went—even church; with a permit, of course.

There are some places I do not drive even in the daytime because I do not want to take the risk. Know the risk, assess it, and make decisions based on what is best.

By Jeff

January 11, 2008 5:27 AM | Link to this

Ron:

If you are a Marine going up against a group of Spetnaz, I would agree. You don’t want to be the one without a gun. (Note I’m not dissing Marines here. Just trying to point out that even an expert in hand to hand combat does not want to be attacked by a group of similarly trained people with guns.)

However, in a one on one ‘stick up’ type situation, advantage goes to the person who knows their situation better and has already anticipated and trained for all scenarios. NOT the person with the gun.

By Ben

January 11, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this

A .32 magnum is the perfect gun for hiking. A small Smith & Wesson airweight frame has 6 shots and is enough firepower to stop any human attack. You won’t even know you have it on you.

By Ben

January 11, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

A .32 magnum is the perfect gun for hiking. A small Smith & Wesson airweight frame has 6 shots and is enough firepower to stop any human attack. You won’t even know you have it on you.

By Ben

January 11, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

A .32 magnum is the perfect gun for hiking. A small Smith & Wesson airweight frame has 6 shots and is enough firepower to stop any human attack. You won’t even know you have it on you.

By john

January 11, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Jeff: after vanity comes the fall…

you are so full of it you will never see it coming. my 5 year old little girl could take you out with my pistol….