AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2009 > February > 05 > Entry
Bravos, The Hammer, and The Train
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
It’s quite a Thursday night in Atlanta, with a former President and $17.5 million commissioner Bud Selig among the many celebrating Hank Aaron’s 75th birthday at the downtown Marriot Marquis, and Wayne Hancock playing only a few miles away at The Earl.
OK, so Wayne “The Train” ain’t exactly Henry “The Hammer” on the fame meter. Nonetheless, the master of hillbilly swing will put on a show that any of the formally attired folks at the Aaron birthday bash would surely appreciate. Maybe they should have asked Hancock to do a set over at the Marquis?
Anyway, we’re headed out to The Earl, while Carroll Rogers is reporting on goings-on from the Aaron soiree.
Meanwhile, the text messages I got from Will Ohman today were kind of cryptic, and I really don’t know what to make of it. He said he’s not at liberty to discuss the state of negotiations, as much as he’d like to update us. Part of me says that means he’s getting close to a deal with the Braves, who always like for the other parties they negotiate with to keep matters close to vest.
So if Ohman ain’t talking at all (only texting, and not giving any hints in those words), then I’m guessing he might be close to a deal to return to Atlanta, especially since Ken Rosenthal reported earlier this week that the Phillies were no longer going after Ohman.
But we’ll see. At least we know it’s likely to be resolved very soon, because I’m fairly sure Ohman (and many, many other unsigned free agents) would like to know where they will be reporting for spring training in just over a week.
Speaking of lefty relievers, in all our discussions here in recent weeks and months about the Braves bullpen, we’ve many times mentioned the lefty newcomers, Eric O’Flaherty from the Mariners and Boone Logan from the White Sox. But the guy we keep forgetting to mention is Jeff Ridgway, who had a 3.72 ERA in 10 appearances for the Braves last season, with eight strikeouts and one walk in 9-2/3 innings.
OK, you’re right — it’s not as if it’s a grievous oversight. He’s far less proven than even O’Flaherty and Logan, Ridgway having entered last season with only three career major league appearances (and an, ahem, 189.00 ERA).
But he does have good stuff. And between the three of them, the Braves might believe or hope they have enough to replace Ohman without significant dropoff.
Yeah, I agree with most (probably?) of you that that’s probably not sound thinking. But I’m just pointing out what they might be considering.
Like I said, it wouldn’t surprise me if they sign Ohman soon.
[BLOGMEISTER UPDATED: I was informed Saturday night at the Braves are no longer pursuing Ohman. Don’t know when decision was made or why, but they are no longer pursuing the lefty. So disregard the previous line. It would, indeed, now surprise me if they sign him, soon or otherwise, since they’re no longer pursuing him. Carry on….]
As for left field…. I’m just not hearing anything in the past few days to lead me to believe the Braves are ready to make a move before they get to Dark Star for spring training. That doesn’t mean they aren’t talking to teams, and doing a good job of keeping things hush-hush, as they had hoped to do.
But usually, I’ll at least hear something from the other end, a call from this reporter or that scout who’s heard about a trade brewing, and is calling to ask if I’ve heard anything from the Braves’ end.
As I’ve said, that can change quickly. The Braves might have been told weeks ago what it would take to get, say, a Xavier Nady or Nick Swisher, and might suddenly call the Yankees back and see if the price is still the same. The Yankees could say yes it is, the Braves could say, then we’ll do it. Ba-da-bing, trade done.
But so far, I’m not hearing anything that makes it seem such a deal is in the works. And what GM Frank Wren said after the Derek Lowe signing — that the Braves don’t feel like they have to make an outfield move right now, that they can afford to be patient — was apparently exactly what he meant.
It wouldn’t surprise me as much as it would surprise (or apparently at least disappoint) many of you if the Braves go to camp with Matt Diaz in left field and let guys like Brandon Jones, Josh Anderson and even Gregor Blanco compete for playing time in a possible platoon, depending what happens in CF, where Anderson and Blanco are expected to be candidates along with Jordan Schafer.
But it also isn’t going to surprise me if, between now and mid-March, the Braves decide they really need to go get a proven run-producer, like they said was a priority entering the offseason, before they substantially improved the starting rotation.
Between the three additions to the rotation and the positive reviews that Jeff Francoeur is getting from no less than candid critic Chipper Jones, plus the performance by Schafer in the Mexican winter league, perhaps the Braves believe they can get by with the combination of pitching and offense they have now.
Or maybe they just want to take a little time in Florida to at least look at what they have in front of them before committing significant dollars to another outfielder, particularly if it’s a defensively limited OF like a few of the free agents that have been and still are available.
I don’t know, for sure. They’re not saying much. So we’ll just have to see what transpires between now and next week, or next month.
Rock Chalk, Crime Dog: In case you missed it (and I’m reasonably sure that 99.9 percent of you did), the Kansas Jayhawks - my Jayhawks — signed the offspring of a popular former Brave on signing day this week.
Wide receiver Erick McGriff is from Jesuit High in Tampa, and he’s also from Fred McGriff. That is, he’s the son of the former Braves 1B.
Glavine update: Tom Glavine threw 75 pitches on Tuesday and said everything went well, again. He sounds more and more certain that he’s going to be ready to pitch in 2009, perhaps even breaking camp with the team.
That is, if the Braves offer him a contract. To me, it doesn’t sound like Glavine has any serious interest in pitching elsewhere, but probably because he doesn’t want to unless it absolutely comes to that.
By that I mean, if he goes through all this rehab and the arm feels sound, it also sounds like he has no interest in calling it a career after the disappointment of last season. Not if he can still pitch and pitch well, or at least believes he can.
When you’ve never previously been on the DL in your entire career, it’s got to be difficult to accept an injury-plagued season as the finale. So if he’s ready to pitch and the Braves don’t offer him a major league contract, then yes, I think he’d consider an offer from another team, and I’m pretty certain he’d get one.
But I also don’t think it’ll come to that. I do believe the Braves will make him an offer soon, a major league offer, with a small salary and plenty of incentives.
That, too, will probably happen soon, if it’s going to happen at all. Remember, Braves pitchers and catchers report to spring training Feb. 14, just one week from Saturday.
“GOING BACK TO TEXAS” by Wayne Hancock
I’ve gone through Arizona, right through New Mexico
I’m gonna keep on driving just as hard as I can go
I’m an Interstate daddy
Taking my lonely heart back home
I’m going back to Texas
Back to the only gal I’ve ever known
That Lone Star spirit is right here by my side
When I cross through old El Paso my heart will fill with pride
Ain’t gonna stop for nothing
Till I see the lights of San Antone
I’m going back to Texas
Back to the only love I’ve ever known
I’m going back to Texas, that’s how it’s gonna stay
Back to my old stomping grounds and the joints I used to play
And when I get back home, Lord, I know I’ll never be alone
I’m going back to Texas
Back to the only gal I’ve ever known
Comments
By B-RITT
February 5, 2009 9:06 PM | Link to this
first?
By Derick Richard
February 5, 2009 9:17 PM | Link to this
As for the platoon with Matt Diaz, what seemed to be his big problem last season prior to his injury when he hit the wall. He was having a difficult year already, perhaps simply something baseball players go through. Was it the pressure of being the everyday guy rather than a platoon player? He seemed to have no health issues as I recall. Year before last, he hit for a high average and I was really surprised at his comparative lack of production. Is the feeling that he will bounce back? Does he consider it better for him to be a platoon players. I’m sure you’ve had this conversation somewhere along the way. I read frequently, but not all the comments.
By efuzz
February 5, 2009 9:19 PM | Link to this
I hope you are reading The Dude right. We ned the lefty in our pen. Don’t know if you caught Glavine on 680 today but he really sounded positive to be ptiching in March.
By dan
February 5, 2009 9:20 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal seems to think that the Braves might not make Tommy an offer. We could use a left handed pitcher in the rotation.
I really hope that the Braves do not think that they can get back to the World Series without another proven bat. Seems like a waste of money to dump everything into the pitching staff without improving the lineup.
While I would like to have Ohman back, I think it is more important to acquire a LF and sign Tommy Glavine. We already have two, possibly three left handed relief pitchers. Granted Ohman is good, but if money is indeed running out, it could be better spent elsewhere.
By efuzz
February 5, 2009 9:20 PM | Link to this
or maybe we need the lefty in our pen
By Chris
February 5, 2009 9:20 PM | Link to this
What exactly does Bud do for $17.5 mil? Good work if you can get it , I guess…
By mitchie-san
February 5, 2009 9:21 PM | Link to this
Top ten again??? wow.
By steve_97060
February 5, 2009 9:24 PM | Link to this
so what is the deal with all the people who seem to get some sort of satisfaction for being the first person to post on various blogs, even though all they post is “first”.. big deal… is there some blogmeister somewhere who keeps score and hands out little prizes to these attention seekers?
By 18 Wheel s of Love
February 5, 2009 9:25 PM | Link to this
Do player incentives count towards the ‘budget’?
By OldBravesBag
February 5, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB…
I think Ohman gave you another clue…. I am not at LIBERTY to discuss???!!!! LOL
By mitchie-san
February 5, 2009 9:29 PM | Link to this
steve_97060, you just wasted our time with your post as well, stop being a little attention seeker.
By The Vet
February 5, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this
I think we should add a cheaper outfield option to the compitition in the outfield, the way it looks now its not good, there are a few vetern outfielders availble that dont come as expensive as Abreu or Dunn. Alou, Anderson, Gonzalaz just to name a few. Good leadership and knowldge of the game all proven hitters and profesionals, if we dont get a bat look for our pitches to lose alot of game but have a good ERA
By Efrim
February 5, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this
Just posted this on the last blog:
Baseball Prospectus has an interesting article up about certain teams in the NL and some solutions for their needs. Here’s what they said about the Braves:
“Free-Agent Fix #1, Atlanta Braves: Atlanta’s outfielders combined to hit just .260/.324/.367 with the majors’ lowest OPS of any outfield crew last year, a serious handicap for an offense. It could be more of the same given that PECOTA doesn’t hold out much hope for anyone in the left- and center-field slop-fest (Matt Diaz, Josh Anderson, Gregor Blanco, Brandon Jones) to better a .260 Equivalent Average. Having made impressive gains in the rotation this offseason, the Braves owe themselves a shot at upgrading their offense, and the most affordable quick fix may be provided by Dunn, whose park-neutral projection (.255/.387/.528) would be better than any Brave this side of Chipper Jones in the OBP and SLG departments.—Jay Jaffe”
The key point I take out of that is this:
“Having made impressive gains in the rotation this offseason, the Braves owe themselves a shot at upgrading their offense…”
Agreed. I’m glad Wren has patience right now, because obviously, Dunn and Abreu are still asking for too much on the free agent market and Brian Cashman is asking for too much in trade for Swisher or Nady. That said, I don’t think the Braves can wait until June or July, I think they need to get a banger before opening day.
By idmo245
February 5, 2009 9:32 PM | Link to this
Sign Glavine if he is healthy enough to pitch. Let Brandon Jones, Diaz, Anderson, Blanco and Jordan Schafer fight it out for left and center field. They can always make a deal during spring training or a trade during the season if that plan isn’t working out. You might want to say a prayer for Jeff Francoeur.
By Alan
February 5, 2009 9:36 PM | Link to this
I’m pleased with what the Braves have done to upgrade their pitching staff, particularly the rotation. As it is now — even without Tim Hudson — it is as good as anyone else’s in the NL East. The bullpen looks good, too, although I agree with DOB that retaining Will Ohman would be “huge” — to borrow a Chipper-ism. However, the proposed lineup as currently constituted is hardly fearsome. A big bopper, such as Adam Dunn or Jermaine Dye, really would transform the lineup and make the Braves instant contenders. Without such a guy — not Nady or Swisher or even Abreu, let alone anyone already on the 40-man roster — I honestly don’t believe the Braves are in the same league (figuratively, of course) as the Phillies and the Mets.
By fastasballs
February 5, 2009 9:37 PM | Link to this
From what I have read it seems Glavine is looking for something a little more than a minor league deal. More like 3 mil of guaranteed money if what I read is accurate. I see no point in signing him if that cash will be needed for a left fielder or other needs later in the season.
With four spots locked down in the rotation & a slew of guys competing for the fifth spot why offer a contract to Glavine? Even if it’s less than the rumored 3 mil you have to think one of the kids will be a pleasant surprise. By giving Glavine a major league contract it seals the fate of all the kids no matter how well they pitch in the spring.
By ccrider
February 5, 2009 9:39 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Braves might be leaning toward spending the money they have left on an outfielder rather than Glavine. I think Wren needs to look at the advantages of a veteran lefty in the rotation to mix with the righthanders, as well as, the benefits of the crew of Hanson, Morton, Reyes, Medlin, Redmond having time at Gwinnett to sort things out. The Braves certainly could also target a minor leaguer with a stronger lefty bat, that hits righties with more power than B. Jones, Anderson or Blanco, to platoon with Diaz.
By The Vet
February 5, 2009 9:47 PM | Link to this
I say go with a cheaper vetern outfielder that add experience to the young outfield, still leaving enough for Ohman and Glavine, I do agree fastballs tho we have alot of options for the 5th starter , if the money for glav would remove the chance to get a better bat for outfield its a tuffy…
By wondering
February 5, 2009 9:51 PM | Link to this
Is this the year?
The year David O’Brein finally gets his goat’s milk fudge in Florida?
By CovBravesfan
February 5, 2009 9:54 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Have you heard anything about the Braves considering signing Garrett Anderson to split time with Diaz in left field? He hasn’t signed with the Angels and is still a free agent and maybe be a good option. While stats can sometimes be deceiving, he appears to be a pretty decent hitter and has very good fielding stats. Plus, maybe we could get him relatively cheap and still be able to get Ohman and Glavine as well.
Thoughts?
By mb
February 5, 2009 9:55 PM | Link to this
The next 2 paragraphs below are from one of the rumor mills.
*Mets call on Ohman Will Ohman | Braves | Interested: Mets? Braves? Phillies? Mets general manager Omar Minaya made his first contact of the winter with Page Odle, the agent for lefty reliever Will Ohman, reports ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick. The Mets weren’t interested when it appeared that Ohman was seeking a deal similar to Jeremy Affeldt’s two-year, $8 million contract with San Francisco. But they’ve decided to jump in now that spring training is approaching and the price has dropped.
Contrary to reports, the Phillies haven’t ceased talks with Ohman’s representatives. But GM Ruben Amaro is near his budget limit unless he finds a way to unload Adam Eaton or Geoff Jenkins. So if the Phillies are going to sign Ohman, Dennys Reyes or Joe Beimel, it probably won’t be for much more than a one-year deal in the $1 million range.*
This paragraph is just my opinion I keep sharing here on the blog.
I think the Braves should sign Ohman and a Left Fielder hitter. I would pass on signing Glavine, good guy and all, but why take the chance.
thanks
mark.
By j
February 5, 2009 9:56 PM | Link to this
I am still intrigued about Abreu in our OF, but what about the Brian Roberts talk? Is this deal dead?
By Tomas
February 5, 2009 10:02 PM | Link to this
Tom Glavine the 42 year old coming of a season cut short to season endig shoulder surgery in which he had an ERA over five. The Braves have Jorge Campillo, Tommy Hanson, Charlie Morton, Jo-jo Reyes, and James Parr already competing for the fifth spot. I mean out of respect for the guy, who is making an effort to comeback, and considering his huge hall of fame career with the Braves they should make an offer. No way a guarantee’d 3 million(who in the world would give Glavine that kind of money). Maybe 1.5 million max. But the question is, who would you prefer to have on the team, Bobby Abreu(an outfielder with power which they desperately need) or a 42 year old pitcher(who they don’t really need considering they already 5 pitchers competing for the last spot in the rotation). It’s a question of common sense.
DOB, help me understandone thing, If Abreu is eventually going to get a 5-8 million dollar contract, why on earth would the Braves even consider trading for Nick Swisher or Xavier Nady. Abreu wasn’t even offered arbitration, so the Braves wouldn’t even lose a draft pick, and the guy hit 296 with 20 HR 100RBI’s, 371OBP, and 10 outfield assist in right field. Much, much better than Swisher 219/24/69 and a 332OBP. Not to mention Abreu stole 22 bases, more than any braves player last year. Something just doesn’t add up, especially because on top of the 5-7 million Swisher and Nady being paid to them, they’d have to give the Yankees players in return. It’s just stupid, am I the only one who thinks this isn’t logical?????
By The Vet
February 5, 2009 10:03 PM | Link to this
I totally agree with you Covbravesfan, he is a very proffesional hitter still, i believe he can hit 15-20 homers and we know he’ll hit 290. or better, other options include Moises Alou and Luis Gonzalaz
By Ray
February 5, 2009 10:12 PM | Link to this
On the subject of Brave farm pitchers, whatever happened to the Oriole pitcher that the Braves got for the “loss” of “rocker” Leo Mazone. I believe his name is Moises Hernandez (or another Hispanic name). I haven’t seen his name anywhere. There aren’t that many “Moises” in circulation even is I am hazy about his last name.
By TennesseePaul
February 5, 2009 10:19 PM | Link to this
Abreu makes the most sense for this team if he is available on a reasonable one year deal. I’d love to see that guy in the line up with Chipper and McCann. It’d make for a much more promissing season.
By Hahahahahaha
February 5, 2009 10:31 PM | Link to this
The Padres DFA’d Matt Bush; the 2004 #1 overall draft pick!
Another brilliant move by GM dumba#@. Ranks right up there with failing to get Escobar and prospects over inevitably and eventually taking a lesser, cruddy Cubs’ package.
By JC from UT
February 5, 2009 10:31 PM | Link to this
DOB: If Glavine is signed will he be placed on the DL to save the roster spot until after ST? And if Ohman is signed would this surplus of bullpen arms especially left handers enable the Braves to offer a package for eithe Nady or Swisher? With all these posible moves something is going to have to give to fit the 40 man roster. And that is not even bringing up either Schafer or Hanson. In your opinion, who would be moved from the 40 man? Does Phil Stockman have any alue in a package? I’m sure Boyer does but I would think the FO is not ready to give up on him as of yet.
By #1 Smoltz Fan
February 5, 2009 10:36 PM | Link to this
I do know how most of the Obrien blog veterans here feel about Andruw Jones but I am a huge fan, and find it amazing that I cannot find one shred of news, rumor or speculation about where he and Bora$$ might be headed. I don’t know if I am looking in the right places but I tried Google, MLB trade rumors, Atlanta braves web site and nothing.
I am still holding on to the hope that by some miracle (or what most would say a bonehead move) that Andruw comes home to the Ted, but to hear absolutely nothing seems strange to me, I mean when he was locked down with LA Bora$$ was very quick to get him released but now it’s silence.
With his sudden 24 month rapid decline in his performance, I think everyone would agree that it is uncommon and a little odd, or not the norm, yes? If so then why is it that nobody thinks there is even a shred of hope that it is something other than the man just can’t play ball anymore ? Has it ever happenned before where a player just basicly forgets how to play? He was a lock for the HOF 3 years ago in most peoples opinion and now Barry Bonds will probably get an offer before Andruw will!
For me it seems obvious that something happenned the last year or so, be it the stress of the contract ending, (didn’t he sign with the Braves one time wihout his agent present just him his dad and JS?), playing in a new stadium, his knee injury, or just some type of depression obviously I don’t know but it seems more logical that some level of comfort and trust, along the inspiration and motivation the comfort of being back in a Braves UNI and I believe we could see at least half the defense/offense we have seen from him in the past. Is there anyone here that would not be happy to pay $1M for a Gold Glove and 29 HR? I really don’t think that is too far fetched.
Wren please do us fans a favor and give ANDY a shot, I think he will impress us all and get a standing O more than once at the Ted this year.
Come home Jones and hit us 30 or 40 mammoths like I know you can!!!!!
By Steve McP
February 5, 2009 10:36 PM | Link to this
Moises Hernandez’s only real claim to fame is that he was the brother of Felix - missed all of 2008 due to injury and even before that nothing much was happening in the minors for him, but who knows with prospects? Maybe he will come back with a killer fast ball and make an excellent closer in 2012!
By Ric
February 5, 2009 10:37 PM | Link to this
# 1- Sign Glavine. This is starting to make me ill. If you sign him for $ 3 million and he wins 5 games that will be a better buy than the Lowe salary per win. Tommy Glavine would put 100 % effort in with a broken arm. Yes, he went to the Mets but is an Atlantan all the way.
DOBWhat about Mark Redmond? AA pitcher of the year. Not a bad pick-up for Tyler Yates. Does he have a chance to make the Big Team?
By Blane McFarnersternski
February 5, 2009 10:59 PM | Link to this
36th?
By Tim McCarver
February 5, 2009 11:06 PM | Link to this
You’re a real man Deion.
By Canadianbrave
February 5, 2009 11:16 PM | Link to this
DOB
Do you think the Braves are thinking that they might get a bit more power out of KJ, Kotchman and Escobar as they mature and rely on the outfield for speed and defense. Escobar does hit the ball hard and some of those might just start climbing the fence? After all hrs are hrs and it doesn’t really matter where they come from.
By Canadianbrave
February 5, 2009 11:30 PM | Link to this
I remember listening to the Braves on I think it was 750 Am when I was a kid. Maybe it was WSB. Anyway I remember the excitement That Aaron used to generate. What a solid player he was!! I’ll tell you right now that most of those 2200and something RBI’s were the game winning kind. The thing I remember most about his homeruns were how many came on 3-0 or 0-2 counts. You would think the at bat was over and crack it was out of there. The speed of his hands was incredible. I remember one game against the Expos where they slowmowed the at bat. It looked for sure like this inside pitch was right by him and then it was over the fence. Smart base runner, good outfielder, just an all round class act. He is the reason I became a baseball fan, and the reason I have stayed a Braves fan all these years. Wouldn’t it be a dream to have him on the team now!
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 5, 2009 11:33 PM | Link to this
Sign Keith Lockhart for 3 Yrs/27 Million. He is stellar.
By Canadianbrave
February 5, 2009 11:39 PM | Link to this
I’m pretty sure the radio announcer’s name was Ernie something. I do remeber that the station also got drowned out by some big detroit station, so we could only listen to the games for like 3 minutes out of every 15.
By AR Brave
February 5, 2009 11:51 PM | Link to this
Glavine would be good for the ole rotation of RHPs, but not as good as that LF bat. Sign dunn if possible or abreu. Forget nady and swisher and the prospects they cost. Seriously why would we do that? It makes zero sense.
Why have a one year rental in Nady, who will leave with boras after the season, only to try to fill the role again next year because Heyward is at least two years away.
Swisher is an average player that costs prospects and carries a salary that doesn’t suit him in this new economy. Man, I hope the Braves don’t waste money and prospects on him.
Dunn and abreu are our best bets because they won’t even cost a first round pick! It would be great to have a leadoff guy like Roberts but that isn’t happening. Can schafer fill the role of leadoff? Maybe josh Anderson?
I would be supremely happy with a lineup like 1 schafer 2 yunel 3 youknowwho 4 dunn/Abreu 5 mccann 6 kotchman 7 Kelly 8 frenchy 9 pitcher. That would be a fun lineup to watch.
If we can’t get abreu or dunn then sign glav and ohman and wait till later in the season. Here’s to hoping we don’t give up prospects an pay the salary for a player like swisher or nady.
By saff
February 5, 2009 11:53 PM | Link to this
BOLD ric mark redmond is a scrub hes awful the guy your thinking of is todd redmond
By AceCometh
February 5, 2009 11:58 PM | Link to this
After Smoltz abandoned the fans for a better chance of winning, the Braves Seriously need to offer Glavine a contract. And soon. We don’t need another PR hit like the one that roused the ire of die hard fans when the Bearded Icon walked away.
By uga-brave
February 6, 2009 12:08 AM | Link to this
denizens,
scoots, wayne, among others please do not throw up.
i believe francoeur is a about to have a pretty decent season.
i read the link to si/cnn.com.
he finally has realized his mecahnics, to say it lightly stunk.
if he really is doing what he says, shorter strides, keeping his weight back, and pushing his hands back before he committs, watch out.
the dude is definetly gifted, if he really learns how to drive the ball gap to gap, he could be the difference maker.
call me stupid, but i saw that hole in his swing a long time ago.
he is saying all the right things, and i think he has finally got it.
he always thought that he was, how do you say, the best player on the field.
no more, he understands the importance of his season.
look for a darn good season from him.
wow, yes i said it. got a hunch he will be pretty darn good this year.
i am now on the record of saying that francoeur might have a pretty great season.
so if, when he does, you heard it here first.
been his biggest critic, but will be his biggest fan.
By N8
February 6, 2009 12:11 AM | Link to this
Andruw Jones…..
You’re and idiot.
By AR Brave
February 6, 2009 12:20 AM | Link to this
I hope frenchy does bounce back strong. I will root for him regardless.
By uga-brave
February 6, 2009 12:36 AM | Link to this
N8,
why the hate on #25.
he was boarderline great in his time in the atl.
he pretty much carried us in the last year we made the playoffs.
i say sign glav, sign andruw and see what he has left, the juice might be worth the squeeze.
as for bobby abreu, leave it alone.
none of the free agents left really makes sense.
you will know right away whether #25 in spring training is done.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 6, 2009 12:55 AM | Link to this
I have to admire one thing about the approach that Frank Wren has taken so far during this off season. The man has been unwavering in his single minded focus of improving the pitching.
That said, I think that Frank Wren is still waiting to see if and when Will Ohman and Tom Glavine will join the Braves. Until the question of yea or nay is answered concerning the two on them, it appears that our Braves are in a holding pattern?
If there is any clue as to whether or not our venerable GM is going to add another bat or stand pat, it’s the Braves 40 man roster.
Among the position players there are 3 catchers, 7 infielders and 6 outfielders. None of whom are candidates to be dropped off the 40 man roster. Leaving 24 pitchers from which one or two might be given the axe, but only if Ohman or Glavine are added. I can think of three who might be candidates: Phil Stockman, Anthony Lerew and James Parr.
Of course, there is always the trade scenario, which would open up the necessary roster space needed to add another bat.
And another thing. There are still more than seventy free agents on the market with nine days left until spring training opens. Buyers market….. ya think????
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 1:11 AM | Link to this
Wayne “The Train” was in fine form tonight. Still playing when we left (dude plays a couple of 90-minute sets each night). At times he sounds like Hank reincarnate. He really does. And a helluva band, including a stand-up “doghouse” bass player and pedal-steel….
uga-brave, if one didn’t know better, one might think you just like to go to one extreme or the other with Francoeur, and toward the other end than whatever the popular opinion seems to be. I mean you ripped him mercilessly for the past year or more, now when others rip him in similar fashion, after his terrible season, you predict a big season out of him based on something you read about him recognizing his mechanics were wrong.
Hey, OK, maybe he will have a big season. Just seems you were too quick to jump on him a year ago — before he’d actually had a bad season, and coming off a second straight 100-RBI season and a Gold Glove — and are now awful quick to predict a big rebound season from him. But I know the Braves hope you’re right….
And uga-brave, speaking of Athens (though I know this one is way after your time there) whatever happened to the alt-rock band The Glands, whose self-titled CD in 2000 was outstanding. I don’t think they’ve put out anything since then, and just assume they broke up at some point. Too bad. They were extremely promising….
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 1:13 AM | Link to this
Coach, it is truly remarkable that more than 70 free agents are still unsigned with spring training opening in barely over a week. And plenty of significant names in that bunch, too….
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 1:31 AM | Link to this
Coach If it’s a buyers market today, think what it will be by mid week next week!
uga I hope you are dead on about Frenchy my friend. A guy with that much natural ability, and “awe schucks” good looks, would be a shame to throw all that away.
Similar sentiments about Andruw. Dude, quit listening to your agent, and listen to your heart. Come back to the Braves, offer to come in on a minimum minor league salary. Heck offer to play for free this year (knowing that’s not really possible, but heck offer it anyway!). If you still have something in the tank, that will endear the team (FO and teammates) and fans to you. Otherwise, everybody will just say, AJ, go screw yourself. If you want to come back, you gotta do it with your hat in your hand.
I think Ohman is 50/50, due to the facts Dave lays out about the 3 other situational lefties on the team. Can’t really blame the Braves for needing to get him at a bargain, since we have 3 guys in waiting. All we need is for one of them to come through. Heck, last year, nobody really thought Ohman was a given until he put it all together. Who’s to say that Logan or Ridgway or O’Flaherty won’t be similar this year?
As for Glavine, I would love to have him in a Smoltz kinda situation. Only bring him in when we are 200% sure he is ready, even if that is in May or June. By that time we will know a lot more about the capability of all our current possibilities. We really aren’t 100% sure that KK will come in and make the rotation this year. Or even Hanson or Morton or Reyes, for that matter.
Can never have too many arms!
I still look for a deal for a guy like Nady, maybe moving Prado and a bullpen arm for him.
Like I said, the bargains on outfielders will get even better in another 4-5-6 days.
Nite all….
By SC James
February 6, 2009 1:32 AM | Link to this
DOB, Let me know what you think of this local band. http://www.afteraugust.net Also, with everyone denying having interest in Manny, will anyone actually sign him?
By tscott625
February 6, 2009 1:36 AM | Link to this
trade kj and some other guys for a big time lf/clean-up hitter and sign orlando hudson to play 2b and leadoff!!!!
By N8
February 6, 2009 1:47 AM | Link to this
uga
No hate for Andruw. I just think it’s assinine for him to refuse a minor league contract from the Yankees, when regardless of whether he plays at all (including the independant leagues), he’s still getting paid the remaining 21 million on his Dodgers contract.
If Dunn, Abreu and the likes (you know… guys that can still hit), are not getting offered decent money, why would Andruw turn that down?
Because he’s and idiot.
As for him pretty much “carrying us the last year we made the playoffs”?
So what? Dan Kolb, Chris Reitsma and HoRam all contributed to that squad too. Do you want them back as well?
Didn’t think so. No hate for Andruw. I stated a few weeks back when he got released, that if he was willing to take a minor league contract with an invite to ST and win a job there… PERFECT! So long as Bobby batted him no higher than 6th or 7th.
Not a chance in hell, that he’s shown enough to make a 40 man roster move for him WITHOUT seeing him at ST first.
If he’s demanding a major league contract, let him get it from somebody else.
“as for bobby abreu, leave it alone….none of the free agents left really makes sense.”
I totally agree. Which is what I’ve been saying for two weeks now (and DOB hinted - many times, including today - that Wren might think the same thing), that we should go to dark star, let it ride for a week or two, and re-assess.
But, if we were to make a run at any of the FA, my choice would be Abreu. I think if a move is to be made (mid-way through ST), that it will be in the form of a trade. Especially if Glavine is deemed healthy, and signed. We already (seemingly - just like last year), appear to have depth in our starting pitching, which means that somebody is gonna give up a decent OF for a young pitcher. Perhaps Jo-Jo Reyes for Young from Minnesota.
Not sure what it would take, or if he’s anybody I would want. But it’s gonna be THAT type of deal that happens, if anything at all.
I’m afraid I have to agree with Terrence Moore… We NEVER should have traded Jermaine Dye.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 6, 2009 1:58 AM | Link to this
In our division, one of the best off season moves that no one is talking about is the Met’s acquisition of Tim Redding.
The former Washington National nailed down 33 starts last season, of which 20 were efforts where he gave up three earned runs or less. His 4.95 ERA is deceiving. The Nats were 20-13 when he started.
Considering the fact that Redding is the Met’s fifth starter along with the airtight bullpen headed by F.Rod and J.J. Putz, those Metrosexual’s are scary.
By uga-brave
February 6, 2009 2:15 AM | Link to this
DOB,
it is called discerning. i always called him a lunger.
if he quits that, who knows?
if he continues to jump at the ball, i will be wrong.
dave, i ripped him when he was as you say good.
at least i have enough of a open mind to say he has realized what does not work for him.
never seen a good hitter that dropped his hands and had no balance.
look at hoss’s swing, he might get fooled but the hands and weight are always back.
thus the ability to drive the ball to the off field.
if francoeur learns that he will be more then servicable.
just gotta a better then average hunch he might realize what went wrong.
what is wrong with that?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 6, 2009 2:23 AM | Link to this
N8, I partially agree with you on the trade of Jermaine Dye. In retrospect, it looks like a major brain fart on the part of John Schuerholz.
But, you have to look at what Keith Lockhart and Michael Tucker contributed. Tucker was a decent outfielder for two seasons ( 97-98) and Keith Lockhart was a solid utility man for six years with the Braves. Tucker was also part of the Cincinnati trade that brought Bret Boone and Mike Remlinger to Atlanta.
Jermaine Dye was sacrificed to keep the division streak alive. Was he worth it? It’s all relative and opinion with no definitive answer.
By uga-brave
February 6, 2009 2:31 AM | Link to this
n8,
i think abreu is played out. you never know when a player hits the wall. plus we dont need another marginable left handed hitter.
spend the money on glav, if he is healthy his leadership will pay for itself.
not to be opining for the past, but he is the last piece of our run.
we needed a rh hitter. unless we get nady stand pat.
that being said, nady for a prospect would not hurt either.
nady is the right guy. dont care that it is a one year rental.
By N8
February 6, 2009 2:40 AM | Link to this
Coach
I was going to add either a (LOL!) or perhaps a (sarcasm), and just about added the little smiley face thing… :-)
It was purely sarcastic. While Dye would have been useful at times for us since the 97 trade, Braves fans would have been fed up with him not being healthy long ago. Add to that, you’re right Tucker and Lockhart definitely helped the Braves out.
If anybody actually recalls, when Lofton was healthy (really only the first month or so of 97), that was BY FAR the best “top of the order” this team has seen since the “run” began in 91.
The Braves went 19-6 in Aprile (averaging 5.6 runs per game), with Lofton [.395 BA, .434 OBP, 26 Runs, 11 SB] and Tucker [.418 BA, 20 RBI in the 2-hole], leading the way.
Of course the pitchers allowing only 73 runs (2.8 per game), didn’t hurt the record either.
I just get a kick out of people ragging on JS for trading Dye. Adding Lofton and Tucker (with Lockhart being an important bench player), was the CORRECT move at the time. Once Lofton got hurt, he wasn’t the same.
I truly believe that Lofton at 100 percent, makes a difference in that 97 series against the Marlins. Though (and DOB could attest, since he was covering them then), that the 97 Marlins were built specifically to match up head to head with the Bravos.
I disagree that Dye was “sacrificed” to keep the division streak alive. We had enough pitching (more than enough, actually) to keep the streek alive. Dye was traded with winning in October in mind.
Wainright was “sacrificed” in the JD Drew trade to keep the streak alive.
Just my opinion.
By CharlieAlphaBravo
February 6, 2009 2:48 AM | Link to this
I don’t think Abreu is marginable. He’s at least above averaged.
By N8
February 6, 2009 2:50 AM | Link to this
uga
“i think abreu is played out. you never know when a player hits the wall. plus we dont need another marginable left handed hitter.”
Agreed. I’ll repeat, IF we’re gonna go after a free agent, he’s the one to gamble on. Don’t think we should, though.
“we needed a rh hitter. unless we get nady stand pat.”
Again. Agree with you.
“nady is the right guy. dont care that it is a one year rental.”
Partially agree with you. For the RIGHT prospect, he’s the RIGHT guy. Just don’t wanna see us give up a Wainwright kind of guy for him on a one year rental.
If it’s Jo-Jo, or Charlie Morton (and who knows? That might look bad in hindsight 2 or 3 years down the road), go for it.
But I agree, Nady would be perfect for this lineup. That being said, his numbers AFTER being traded to NY, weren’t that great, either. But his defense is far superior to Dunn or Abreu, and of course, he’s RH.
That’s where Swisher comes in. Of course, he’d “cost” more prospects, due to being locked down for a few (3?) years. But I like that he’s a switch-hiter, can play multiple positions. But he’s just as “unknown” as relying on one of our prospects to win a job.
I still say that a platoon of B. Jones/Diaz (if Matt is healthy), is the best option to start the year, or at least going into spring training.
But I’m with you on Glavine. I think at this point, after watching what happened with Smoltz (and his past history of abandoning - allegedly - the Braves), he’s gonna be willing to settle for an incentive driven contract going into the year.
Tom Glavine of 2007 in the 5th slot of the rotation , would surely be acceptable to me. Only thing is that we don’t know what he has to offer in terms of health. But for christmas sakes, if Jamie Moyer at 45 can contribute, surely a first balot HOF pitcher of Tom’s pedigree can be affective, not?
By Chop Chop
February 6, 2009 2:57 AM | Link to this
Good one, CAB.
I saw “marginable” and started thinking about Parkay.
By scottbravesfan
February 6, 2009 3:03 AM | Link to this
It’s insane if the Braves don’t try and sign Abreau. The guy right there waiting for us to pick him up. They should also try and sign Glavine cheap so what he has left that way we can give Tommy Hanson another year in the minors.
By uga-brave
February 6, 2009 3:11 AM | Link to this
yeah but he is marginable, you guys got me.
chop chop, and cab. my bad. but he aint butter.
By BravesFan79
February 6, 2009 3:21 AM | Link to this
So Ohman has agreed to go to the Mets. That SUCKS!! I thought before the season ended, that it was important we lock up Smoltz and Ohman BEFORE other teams started throwing $$ at them! Look where its gotten us…… im so tired of the Braves thinking two 1.5 million relievers/backups can equal the production of one 3 million/year reliever/ backup player!
It got us NOWHERE with Chris Woodcrap, Corky Miller, etc….. now should we expect the same when a lefty reliever is put in the game in a crucial situation??
GREAT JOB WREN! YOU SUCK!
By brAves Sucios
February 6, 2009 3:25 AM | Link to this
DOB All the dudes in the Glands are still around town and mostly playing in other projects and/or working in local record shops. Rumors of a new record pop up every once in a while, but I have it on good sources that a show should happen sometime soon. Their first record is really good, too… can’t really beat songs like “The Livin’ Was Easy,” though.
Speaking from a similar time period, were you ever into RockATeens? Tenement Halls is Chris Lopez’ new project and they’re KILLER, though they too almost never play out and a second record is in serious need of being recorded and/or released.
By BravesFan79
February 6, 2009 3:27 AM | Link to this
Hanson another year in the minors? Are you people wanting to make the playoffs this year or not!? What else does this guy have to prove in the minors! JoJo could use more work in the minors, Hanson is a lock as a solid #4 starter at worst.
Waiting longer to bring Hanson up will be just like us starting out 2007 with Chris Woodcrap over Escobar… a BIG MISTAKE!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 6, 2009 3:39 AM | Link to this
Um, Bravesfan79, that is not accurate.
this is
By ccrider
February 6, 2009 4:13 AM | Link to this
Bravesfan79, Where did you see Ohman signed with the Mets?
By TheAntiMe
February 6, 2009 4:39 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, lol - I’ll bet you were the guy that the nice lady teacher on Romper Room was speaking to everytime she said, “Mr. Music, please?”
Spring Training and “MLB ‘09: The Show” are just one more month away. Good times!
By TheAntiMe
February 6, 2009 4:49 AM | Link to this
According to ESPN.com, the Mets are talking with Will Ohman’s agent but there has been nothing close to an agreement signed by any team with Ohman. It appears that the Phillies are also still interested in signing Ohman, as well.
By jed
February 6, 2009 4:52 AM | Link to this
i absolutely believe we’re going to go get a LF before ST. no way you spend all this money on pitching and then leave LF, for the most part, in the hands of brandon jones . especially not with a question mark in RF and a AAAA player in CF. you better assure as much stability in the outfield as possible. wren’s shown me he’s pretty smart so far, so i dont see him letting this slide. might indeed effect glavine and ohman however…
btw, what is going on with all the unsigned free agents? i’ve never seen an off-season like this. could be the economy, yes, but it seems like more than that. for example, nobody’s offered abreu a contract and that’s just downright peculiar, even taking into account the economy. meanwhile prices for FA’s continue to fall.
is there such a term as “soft collusion”?
By Random
February 6, 2009 5:33 AM | Link to this
spotts: “Did anyone actually read nolie’s, Aristotle’s, or Random’s enormous posts?”
Me! I did!
Two outta three, at least.
(Four outta five, if you count that I read mine three times.)
8-)
By Elmer
February 6, 2009 5:56 AM | Link to this
Schafer is the one to watch!
By ncscoots
February 6, 2009 6:09 AM | Link to this
Well, folks do forget that Brandon Jones showed excellent minor league power prior to last year. He suffered an injury in winter league last year which lingered during all of 2008, and I imagine you can attribute some of his off-year to that. If the Braves are thinking that way and look for him to return to his norms, I can see the logic in giving him a look before opting for a trade or FA. The other uncertainties in the OF make that more of a risky proposition, IMO, but I can see the reasoning behind it.
Even if that works out, though, that doesn’t solve the cleanup problem. I really think Chipper’s going to have to hit 4 this year. Even with uga’s seal of approval on Francoeur, LOL.
By John Fisher
February 6, 2009 6:58 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
Thanks for the update but…..
From what it sounds like you think the Braves are going to offer Ohman and Glavine an offer soon.
We defanitely wouldnt have enough money to sign both of them and sign/trade and left fielder.
So does this mean that Wren has decided our outfield is fine as it is??
Just asking
By Train Wreck Bystander
February 6, 2009 7:56 AM | Link to this
I find it very interesting that the NYY offered AJ a minor league deal. If the Yankees won’t overspend on someone, no one will.
Take the hint, Druw, or you’ll likely be taking the year off.
By BravesFan79
February 6, 2009 8:22 AM | Link to this
I cant validate the Ohman story, but i saw it somewhere. Hopefully i was wrong, or the one publishing the article last night was wrong! According to espn, nothing is official yet, so ill leave it up to DOB to be the expert on this…..
By BDubs
February 6, 2009 8:27 AM | Link to this
DOB:
I’ve got a quick question for you. Why won’t the Braves make a run to get Griffey in a one-year deal as a stop-gap to give our young boys one more year in the minors? His price has got to be dropping by the week, especially if Spring Training gets here without him on a contract. He adds a little pop to our OF. And, if we feel okay going to camp with Anderson, Blanco or Schafer, then we shouldn’t worry too much about an injury to Jr. b/c one of these guys could step up if Jr. goes down.
Just wonderin’… Thanks DOB. You got the best blog runnin’ (and I don’t just mean on the AJC)…
By Salt
February 6, 2009 8:37 AM | Link to this
I’ve been following the Braves like a soap opera every year since 1968 and, statistically speaking, 94.52% of the time, the state of the club at the beginning of Spring Training is NOT an indicator of how the season unfolds. As Skip used to say, “That’s why they play the games. That’s what makes it fun.”
78.36% of the time, Bobby Cox is a damn good manager.
Wayne Hancock has a song about my wife, “L-I-T-T-L-E-L-I-S-A, Oh, Little Lisa, you done stole my heart.”
Mobile Slim
By Travis
February 6, 2009 8:54 AM | Link to this
As the Braves stand now, the big hitters in the lineup are Chipper and Mac. With Mac getting every fifth day off behind the plate and Chiipper destined for some DL time the Braves will have nothing in the lineup to carry the team if they are both out. That potentially leaves the 3rd and 5th spot in the lineup with no sluggers to fill them. Unless my math is off (entirely possible) that is at least 32 games missed by Mac alone. We need a bopper in the lineup. Still think Dunn is the guy.
By albert
February 6, 2009 8:56 AM | Link to this
A couple of thoughts:
1) Wren may be waiting on arbitration outcomes for Kelly Johnson and Jeff Francoeur to see how much money is left for left field, Glavine and/or Ohman.
2) The Cardinals’ Ankiel and Ludwick are also in the middle of the arbitration process. They will probably trade one or the other to make room for Rasmus. Maybe Wren (and other GM’s) are waiting for the outcome of their arbitration hearings before committing to a trade.
3) The Braves may be waiting to see how a healthy Brandon Jones looks in Spring Training before making a move for a left fielder. Remember that Jones was a very good run producer with some power through most of his minor league career
By Goodoleboy58
February 6, 2009 8:58 AM | Link to this
I think we may be waiting for Spring Training so that other teams can see what Brandon Jones and company can do in action to up their value
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 8:59 AM | Link to this
I have only seen Ridgway pitch in blowout games. On the other hand, I haven’t seen Logan or O’Flaherty pitch either. I’ve only seen their line in boxscores. I’m starting to think Braves are not going to sign Ohman.
By Rolf
February 6, 2009 9:03 AM | Link to this
DOB - One Week to go until Spring Training?
I need to come up with $100M real quick. I’m going to start my own MLB team with the amazing number of free agents still out there….
My outfield will be Dunn, Griffey and Abreau. (Don’t ask me who is playing CF, because I don’t have time to hammer out those unimportant details…lol.) Nomar at first, Hudson at 2nd, Cabrera at 3rd, and Crede at 3rd. Lets put Johnny Estrada behind the plate. We then go sign Glavine, Wolf, Pedro, Benson and who else but Chuck James in the five slot. We’d get Ohman among the relievers we sign.
We then head to Vegas, sign a stadium deal, call the team the “Vegas Gamblers” We join the AL West. Ohman would introduce the players of each team every home game with his Harry Caray impression.
I think we finish 2nd or 3rd in the division despite our defensive woes. (I find it hard to believe that this team would not beat the Mariners…. ) We’d finish 2nd if Chuck can give us 5 or more quality starts during the year.
By Chief Nock A Homa
February 6, 2009 9:18 AM | Link to this
176th??!
By Anders
February 6, 2009 9:25 AM | Link to this
Lew
Not sure if you’ll be on here this morning and my day looks like it might be pretty busy but I wanted to make sure I acknowledged the article in Newsday today about the money the “Mets” lost in the Madoff scandal. Not just Wilpon’s money but the Met’s organization. I’ve been on here saying per reports it was only Wilpon who lost some of his non-Met money and you’ve felt there was more to it than that. If Newsday’s report is correct (which I have no reason to believe it wasn’t) than so were you. As one who ask’s others to “man up” on here I needed to do the same with you. I didn’t see the figures for the 13 accounts the Mets reportedly had with Madoff so I don’t know how deep the loss is.
That said, while I do now believe this may have influenced their willingness to go the extra mile to get Manny (you’ve said that repeatedly as well)they still have a payroll in the $140 mil range so I wouldn’t paint them as exactly destitute.
Put this one in the win column for you. I’ll get back on when I can today.
By jon-b
February 6, 2009 9:26 AM | Link to this
Just read in the Rocky Mountain News that Tracy Ringolsby says that the White Sox may have the inside track on Abreu because of the friendship and shared nationality with manager Guillen. The link for that is below:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/05/ringolsby-repeat-performance-for-rays-doubtful/
Looking forward to P&C on Valentine’s Day!
By Raymond K
February 6, 2009 9:41 AM | Link to this
I read that the Mets are intersted in Ohman or Biemel as they are thin on the left side in the bullpen. Minaya spoke to Ohman’s agent this past Wed. He may be going to another NL East foe. If the Mets outbid the Braves, I think Ohman is gone. (If the Braves play around with Glavine, he won’t be with them either.)
By Train Wreck Bystander
February 6, 2009 9:41 AM | Link to this
Here’s a schedule of pitcher/catcher dates for all of MLB, including the minors.
And to go off-topic to music, Paul Simon’s Graceland album is a $5 MP3 download today at Amazon. FWIW.
By Tami
February 6, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this
(1) Selig is waaay OVERpaid. I’d love to see another commish, but I’ve always felt that way about the guy.
(2) We really need Ohman, I’m thinking. He’s a proven pitcher, whereas the other lesser-known pitchers DOB mentioned are not. I hate to say this, but I think the Braves need him more than Glav.
(3) Regarding Glav: I don’t think it would be right, though, to let him go. In my humble estimation, I’m thinking this season is likely Glav’s last anyway. So, he could end up being the “feel-good” story of the 2009 season by coming back from his first-ever DL stint to help bring the Braves back to postseason competition. What a way to go out!!
Well…OK. It WOULD be a great feel-good story IF the Braves actually make it to the postseason. But, it’s nice to think about while we’re still in our big preseason hopefulness. LOL.
By Original Jon
February 6, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB
Whats with all the talk about only having so much money left that we could only do one thing or another? So is the Braves front office saying that if we were able to get Abreu for 5 million and Ohman for 3 million, that they wouldnt shell out 2 or 3 more million to sign Glavine? Or Vice Versa, that if we signed Ohman and Glav that they wouldnt shell out a few more dollars for an outfielder that can hit? I find it hard to believe that they would spend so much money in hopes of being contenders to let a few million stand in the way of acquiring the help we need.
I cant see them saying, “man, too bad we couldnt have spent just 3 million more to get that hitter we needed” Oh wait, we CAN!!!!!!
By Tami
February 6, 2009 9:55 AM | Link to this
P.S…..wished I seen the comment that Albert @ 8:56 am left. I agree with you Albert. I didn’t realize all those guys were STILL waiting for a contract. It would be nice to get one of those bats. It would make sense why Ohman or Glavine haven’t been signed yet.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 9:56 AM | Link to this
From what it sounds like you think the Braves are going to offer Ohman and Glavine an offer soon.
We defanitely wouldnt have enough money to sign both of them and sign/trade and left fielder.
So does this mean that Wren has decided our outfield is fine as it is??Josh Fisher
John, they already made offer for Ohman — in November. Don’t know if they have or are planning to raise it, might not be willing to get in a bidding war.
Just a gut feeling they’re probably going to make an offer to Glavine soon. But not a really strong (gut feeling), to be honest with you.
I explained above, in the blog itself, what I thought as far as how they might be looking at the outfield situation.
By Kentavo
February 6, 2009 9:56 AM | Link to this
I’m on the Garret Anderson bandwagon - sign him!!!
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 9:58 AM | Link to this
braves sucios: thanks for the update on the Glands. Does one of the band members work at Criminal, by chance? (I know at least one of the guys in Anna Kramer & The Lost Cause works there)
By Howie from Poughkeepsie
February 6, 2009 9:58 AM | Link to this
Offering Glavine an incentive ladened contract that starts at say $2m-$3m makes alot of sense - if he appears healthy. Tom provides a presence in the locker room, on the bench and on the plane when traveling that cannot be matched by other alternatives for a #5 starter. Good teams always have that type of leadership and outside of Chipper the Braves don’t have it. Glavine’s value goes way way beyond the stats he provides. Get Tom in Spring training and see how it goes with his pitching - but please don’t discount his other value. That was the REAL mistake by not signing Smoltz - let’s ‘fix’ that by signing Glavine.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this
ROLF
You can sign Ben Sheets!? And don’t forget Manny!!!
Who would your closer be? Who would be in your bullpen?
Let’s see. Ohman would be the…CLOSER? Nahhh Emil Brown can come off the bench. Luis Rivas can ccome off the bench.
I would make Chuck James my long man.
Glavine, Wolf, Pedro, Kris Benson,
By wide right
February 6, 2009 10:00 AM | Link to this
If the Braves were to sign Glavine, making him the 5th starter, would Jo-Jo be an option as a left-handed specialist in the bullpen? Would he be good enough so that we wouldnt need Ohman? At least, good enough so it would make more sense to trade for Nady?
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 10:00 AM | Link to this
So is the Braves front office saying that if we were able to get Abreu for 5 million and Ohman for 3 million, that they wouldnt shell out 2 or 3 more million to sign Glavine? Original Jon
You might have noticed, the Braves front office isn’t saying anything about their finances. Just a leak here and a rumor there about how they might be pursuing this guy or not pursuing anyone one week, then considering trades the next.
Quite frankly, at this point I’ll be glad when spring training starts.
By Lew
February 6, 2009 10:01 AM | Link to this
Anders-Thanks Dude. I appreciate that. A salary level of $140 million might not leave enough left for someone like Manny. I also read today that the Mets are signing Elmer Dessens to a minor league contract. Now I’m certain they have no money left. Believe me-you’ll just LOVE Elmer. Really y’all will. He’s very effective.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this
I read that the Mets are intersted in Ohman or Biemel as they are thin on the left side in the bullpen
Doesn’t instill a lot of confidence in Pedro Feliciano
The Mutts seem desperate
By Train Wreck Bystander
February 6, 2009 10:06 AM | Link to this
That spring training link ended up garbled somehow (probably my bad, it’s late for us night owls).
Here ‘tis again: http://www.springtrainingonline.com/features/reporting-dates.htm
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 10:08 AM | Link to this
Glavine could be this year’s Charlie Leibrandt!!! ha ha ha.
By Tami
February 6, 2009 10:11 AM | Link to this
I thought I heard yesterday that Sheets has to have surgery on his pitching arm. Anyone catch that? I’m about to go surf the ‘Net to catch the latest on that developing story.
If that’s still true, we can be glad that the Braves didn’t sell the farm to get the kid, only to lose him (maybe for the season, if not a good portion of it) before anyone even reports to spring training.
By Butch Haynes
February 6, 2009 10:12 AM | Link to this
I’d like to thank the headline writer for the AJC Sports section for making me think Hank Aaron was dead this morning. There’s a front page story on Aaron’s birthday celebration, which I did not initially read. But as I flipped through the sports section, I saw the headline for the continuation of that story on page four, which states that the baseball legend was “eulogized” at the gathering. I understand that technically “eulogize” means to praise someone. But come on, that is a loaded word and is commonly - heck, almost exclusively - associated with funerals. The first thing you think of when they hear “eulogy” or “eulogize” is dead guy. Anyway, I went back and read enough of the story to confirm that, despite the headline, Aaron is not dead. Thank you AJC headline writer!
By Rolf
February 6, 2009 10:15 AM | Link to this
Getnathan
At Belagio Field, home to the Vegas Gamblers, Jason Isringhausen will be our closer and Rudy Seanez will be the set-up guy. (or are those guys signed yet?)
Also, I just reviewed the preliminary drawings for Belagio Field and have modified the center field wall to 375 feet - thereby solving the issue of a lack of a true center fielder. Most of the games will have a total of over 15 runs per game. The extended duration of the games due to all of the runs will mean that we will have astounding concession revenue. The gamblers will lead the league in runs, HR’s, and (highest) ERA.
By dmack
February 6, 2009 10:17 AM | Link to this
Dave
Do you consider the off season a success if the Braves do not start the season with somebody not named Diaz, Blanco, or Jones in left field.
I like the revamped rotation, but you have to score runs as well. Our OF was the least productive in all of baseball last year. It needs help too.
Seems like a waste of money to dump everything into the rotation, and ignore the LF situation. I hope that the Braves have been smart about financies and reserved some money for Glavine and a left fielder.
By AGTfan
February 6, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this
uga-brave I’m writing this after awakening from my fainting spell from your post. I think most of us hope you’re right. Hopefully we see the real Frenchy this year and last year was an aberation. It’s good to see that you’re pulling for him. Will it last past the first DP with bases loaded on a first pitch? I think you’re right about the hole in his swing and it does sound like he’s addressing it. And maybe he’s learned the difference between football conditioning and baseball conditioning. The extra weight and upper body muscle mass was a huge mistake last year. It also sounds like he’s getting some help from Chipper. I wonder if Chipper becomes a hitting coach after he hangs up the spikes?
By The GM
February 6, 2009 10:21 AM | Link to this
There is no reason to sign another over the hill pitcher like Glavine thereby blocking a young pitcher like Hanson from making the starting rotation. You can’t get excited about the rotation as it stands. When are the Braves going to develop their younger players like Tampa and Florida and quit trying to win another one for Bobby before he hangs it up. This isn’t exciting folks when you don’t have the bats to support the pitching and the pitchers are average at best. Lets get the young kids up here and in 2-3 years the Braves should again be able to consistently challenge at least for divsion championships. A new manager with a little more fire would help too.
By Mark
February 6, 2009 10:22 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Did you watch The Office last night? This season is def. coming to form. Andy is quietly becoming one of my favorite characters.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 10:28 AM | Link to this
ROLF
What division would the Gamblers be in? The NL WEST. In that division, they’d have a shot at winning it. With the dimensions in that ballpark, it would be today what Coors Field used to be. A place where hitters break out of slumps.
By Lew
February 6, 2009 10:38 AM | Link to this
Tami-Sheets has a torn flexor tendon in his elbow. Not surprising to some of us here who realized all along there was way too much potential for serious surgery in his near future
By DAP
February 6, 2009 10:39 AM | Link to this
“The Mutts seem desperate”
i wouldnt say desperate, but they are definitely not going top shelf for their players this offseason. contrary to what coach thinks, signing tim redding was not smart (for a team with money) because at that point there were still many starters available who would have been much better than redding.
they are building their team very frugally, which is fine, but it just tell me that they dont have money to throw around like they allegedly were supposed to. and, as anders has pointed out this morning, our hunch might be correct on that one.
count me among those who thinks its a mistake for the braves not to get someone for left field. i think they need to build the team to be as good as possible form the beginning, not wait. now, if there are reasons they cant get a guy, like money, resources for trade, ect, than i understand. but, if the braves front office thinks its a good idea to try with what they got, i think thats a mistake.
By Bayou Brave
February 6, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
Rolf No Manny on your team? Also, Jim Edmunds could play CF since your left and right fielders are defensive liabilities.
I assume you meant Cabrera at SS.
I think Ivan Rodriguez would be a valuable pickup to split time with Estrada.
Gotta sign Paul Byrd over Chuck.
In addition to Ohman, I’m sure you’d sign Eric Gagne, Jason Isringhausen and Luis Ayala.
By ryan c
February 6, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this
the problem with not having a power left fielder can probably go unnoticed on days when we face a right hander and everyone is healthy. but the days where chipper is hurt, mccann is resting, francoeur is sucking, and kj isn’t streaking (not in the naked sense), we will blow and blow hard. those would be the days where an adam dunn bomb with 1 man on would be the difference maker. a power outfielder is needed on an offense that’s so inconsistent.
By JOE
February 6, 2009 10:55 AM | Link to this
I’m in New orleans- Love the blog and all the info from Dave. Can’t wait for Spring training.Will be down there in March for three games.
My Question(stupid probably)- why is Stadium in Disney called DARK STAR?
Thanks. keep up the good work. Going to see The reader tomorrow- based on your recomendation.
By Steve from OH
February 6, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this
CanadianBrave: It was Ernie Harwell. One of the greatest ever.
By BravesFan79
February 6, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this
wide right: you seriously think Jo Jo could replace all the clutch innings Ohman threw last year?? Did you even WATCH the Braves last year? lol…….. Lets hope this lefty we got in the trade does better work in the NL than AL, because i got a feeling Ohman isnt coming back.
Hope im wrong!
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:02 AM | Link to this
I noticed that Furcal was logging a few games at 2nd base during winter ball. Too bad he wouldn’t do that for Atlanta. I know this isn’t a cooking sight! But since you guys seem to have such good taste in music and baseball teams and I’m desperate, does anyone know where I might get a good recipe for lasagna.(no peppers please)
By Prime Time
February 6, 2009 11:04 AM | Link to this
Bottom line is that the Braves need another bat (LF) to be even considered a true contender. the rotation looks good but we had enough one run losses last year.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this
Joe, look forward to seeing you at Dark Star. Oh, and it’s a mystery, the origin of that name.
By Original Jon
February 6, 2009 11:10 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB I agree with you on wishing spring training would start, wish it was here today!!!!
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 11:10 AM | Link to this
Lew, regarding Sheets: Can you imagine if some team (such as the Braves, if they made decisions based on outside recommendations) had signed Sheets to, say, a two-year contract in November?
And then he had what’s likely season-ending surgery before he’d even reported to his first spring training with the new team?
By Chris Pine Is not Kirk!
February 6, 2009 11:11 AM | Link to this
Im sorry but our team just doesnt look like we will be the power team we use to be. We dont have one guy minus chipper whom could hit 30 hr’s this year. Even if JF comes back to full form we just dont have enough bad speed.
Also I am not impressed with our starting pitching rotation, seems like we are all just trying to stay positive about this year, when in reality we are probably looking at a 3rd or 4th place finish again.
Oh DOB you going to see Friday The 13th remake next Friday? Oh trivia time too….Who knows whom Shelly is in the F13th series!
By Chris Pine Is not Kirk!
February 6, 2009 11:11 AM | Link to this
Im sorry but our team just doesnt look like we will be the power team we use to be. We dont have one guy minus chipper whom could hit 30 hr’s this year. Even if JF comes back to full form we just dont have enough bad speed.
Also I am not impressed with our starting pitching rotation, seems like we are all just trying to stay positive about this year, when in reality we are probably looking at a 3rd or 4th place finish again.
Oh DOB you going to see Friday The 13th remake next Friday? Oh trivia time too….Who knows whom Shelly is in the F13th series!
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:13 AM | Link to this
GM I agree with your comment about needing a little more fire! I understand that Schafer plays that way! Although I have never seen him personally. I know Diaz plays with some fire, if only he was more multi-talented. If someone could light a fire under Escobar, I think he would be a hell of a player, but he just seems so unemotional and mechanical. I just hope the Braves don’t field a lineup where McCann leads the teams in Hrs. and stolen bases.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this
DAP
Braves are waiting on 2 fronts:
Waiting to see if Logan, O’Flaherty, Or Ridgway can take over that lefty setup role out of the bullpen. If one of them can, they don’t spend the money on Ohman. If they cannot, they might pony up to sign him.
Also, I think they are going to wait even longer on the LF situation. They may go in to the season with what they’ve got (Diaz, Brandon Jones, Jordan Schafer, et al).
If they can only afford to address one of the two situations immediately, I would rather them get a LF who can hit for power.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 11:21 AM | Link to this
I’m sure it’s been noted here before, but just in case it hasn’t: I was just looking over payrolls and stuff from last year, and did you realize that the teams with the three highest payrolls in baseball all failed to get to the playoffs in 2008?
The Yankees ($209 mill), Tigers ($138 mill) and Mets ($138 mill) spent nearly half a billion on player salaries (more than half a billion with luxury taxes included) and played no postseason games.
By Rolf
February 6, 2009 11:21 AM | Link to this
Bayou All great roster suggestions for our initial year at “The Gio.” (pronounced “Joe.”) I didn’t include Manny, because I’d rather Many be Manny somewhere else. Besides, I’m afraid he’d be constantly distracted by the scantily clad - tassel laden roaming concession girls hawking overpriced beers to our fan base during our marathon games.
I like Chuck on the roster, because frankly I like the guy. It’s not his fault that on some days one of his two pitches was not working.
I’m thinking about involving the Cirque folks somehow during the 7th inning stretch, but I haven’t figured out that one yet.
Also, I want to stay in the AL West. I still can’t figure out why the NL Central has 6 teams and the AL West only has 4. Why would the Gamblers want to go into a division with 5 already? I realize that our chance of winning the division is slim (‘cause of the Halos), but I’m sticking to it.
By Braveheart
February 6, 2009 11:24 AM | Link to this
Ooohh la la ah oui oui
I say Muhammad Ali, ya say Cassius Clay
I say butter, you say Parkay
By Daybed Wagmoe
February 6, 2009 11:30 AM | Link to this
I know that one of the guys (the keyboardist/vocalist) from The Glands works in School Kids Records on Clayton Street in Athens. At least, he did the whole time I lived in Athens, which was up until July.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 11:32 AM | Link to this
getnathan
I doubt Ohman will wait until late February or March to sign. The Braves might prefer to give the other lefties in camp a couple of weeks and decide whether they can pitch well enough to make Ohman more a luxury than a necessity. But I’m thinking that the Mets would jump in with an offer if he hasn’t signed by the end of next week. And if the Braves don’t match that offer, Ohman would take it.
As for LF, yeah, I agree they can be more patient.
My preferences (as if anyone in the FO cares): If you have enough money to sign Glavine, Ohman or a LF, spend it on the offense.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 11:32 AM | Link to this
chris pine is…
i think the braves pitching will pleasantly surprise you. the bullpen will be very good to. even with the injuries in the bullpen last year, they were very good, until later in the season when they were worn down. the starters we have for 2009 will not only give us quality innings, but they will help keep the guys in the bullpen fresh and effective. having the top 4 pitchers all likely to throw 780 innings is going to be real nice, and will lead to consistent play and fewer late-game meltdowns. (which resulted in many of the one runs losses that we faced)
with the lineup, i agree kind of. i dont think its as bad as you make it sound, but the braves need a guy to bat in the middle of the order. im talking someone to hit either in the 3, 4, or 5 spot in the order, and add some stability. i think nady would be perfect, one year rental or not. swisher or abreu would also be nice. the braves do need to add someone, definitely.
By Lew
February 6, 2009 11:33 AM | Link to this
DOB-I guess that’s why bloggers aren’t routinely considered for front office positions. Kind of like those thinking over the past few years that trading Horacio, Langerhans, Orr or some other players of their ilk would net us a superstar. Delusion tends to run rampant at times-or as The Lizard King once said-“The Lunatic reigns supreme in the heat of the night.”.
My track record this winter has been pretty good, though. I called for shorting Sheets and signing Vasquez and Lowe. Now I’ll go a bit further out on a limb since my prognostication has been spot on-Frenchy will be back and back strong. Kelly will retain consistency and we will contend all year whether or not we get that power hitting outfielder. I’d still sign Ohman, though and might consider changing my mind about signing Glavine if healthy-as long as it was for the back end of the rotation
By Lew
February 6, 2009 11:35 AM | Link to this
Chris Pine-No bad speed? How about Mac?
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:36 AM | Link to this
DOB the three highest payrolls …lost That’s because Show Boats don’t win championships! You can have a couple on your team because of their talent! But when you field an entire team, they compete with each other and not with the rest of the league!
By DAP
February 6, 2009 11:38 AM | Link to this
getnathan if the braves are waiting to see what the other lefties do, they will wait to long. ohman will be signed by the time they can find out. i hope they arent doing that.
i find it more likely that they are waiting to see what kelly and frenchy get in arbitration, so that they can examine the budget. they are getting close to the max so they need to be careful when adding a this point.
i think the pitching will be fine as it is. id like to add ohman, but i dont think its as important as a LFer. i think not getting a LFer is a mistake. we could get by without ohman and definitely without glavine.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 11:40 AM | Link to this
Chris Pine: That falls under the category of movies being remade way too soon, if they ever need to be remade at all.
What’s the point? Like with The Omen, which someone remade a couple of years ago, turning a classic thriller into just another entirely forgettable movie not worth the time.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
Steve From Ohio
Ernie Harwell was the guy blocking us out on the Detroit ststion I think. The Braves announcer was Ernie something else
By mbatl
February 6, 2009 11:52 AM | Link to this
Ernie Johnson, Sr. … come on guys! He’s in the Braves HOF!
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:54 AM | Link to this
Lew
Tom Waits said, In the Land of the Blind the One-eyed Man is King
Maybe the other Gms are getting smarter and the don’t want to be fleeced any more.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 11:57 AM | Link to this
Canadianbrave,
You’re thinking of the legendary Ernie Johnson (Sr.), who was on Braves radio and TV from the 1960s until he retired (was it just before the streak started in ‘91?). His son’s the studio host of Turner’s NBA coverage.
He called a few games a year on TBS even after he officially retired. If I’m not mistaken, he coined the phrase, “Time to open another can of pitchers,” which Skip used as well.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
mbati
Thanks! I can hear his voice now!
By keylargo
February 6, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
The Yankees ($209 mill), Tigers ($138 mill) and Mets ($138 mill) spent nearly half a billion on player salaries (more than half a billion with luxury taxes included) and played no postseason games. DOB
I can’t resist not adding to that post that the Yankees, Tigers and Mets combined played to the exact winning % of the Florida Marlins whose payroll was less than $22,000,000.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this
BTW, if the Braves are going to bottom-feed for a LF, I’d prefer they not sign Luis Gonzalez. His OPS has fallen off a cliff the last two years and he didn’t hit RHP well to be a realistic platoon guy. And I don’t think you can count on him to play in the field more than 40-50 games.
If we didn’t have Norton, you might consider him as a PH, but I like Norton a lot better (plus he’s a switch-hitter).
Rather pay a little more for Edmonds or Griffey as a part-time LF on the cheap. Or see what we’ve got in March and shop around if needed.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 12:07 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN High payrolls don’t equal championships. That’s why Yankees will have a hard time getting to the playoffs every year.
DAP Yes, I am with you on the fact if the Braves are playing a waiting game with Ohman, they will have waited too long. They might as well just settle on Logan, O’Flaherty, or Ridgway right now and not even think about signing him.
They would be wise to get a left fielder who can hit for power. Someone they can stick in the middle of the lineup.
By Jared
February 6, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this
I’m actually ok with having Josh Anderson or Blanco starting in CF. It’s not like light-hitting speedsters haven’t worked before for us(see Otis Nixon). They both play good defense and can cause havic on the basepaths, which is sorely needed. When a team goes “younger”, you automatically get faster. Bobby has always said that he coaches to his teams strength. Also not concerned with a potential platoon in LF. The pitching was the major issue last year, not offense. I believe that they were still a top 10 team offensively, without any help from the outfield. Pitching and defense! Stay away from Dunn and Abreu!
By richbrave
February 6, 2009 12:15 PM | Link to this
I saw a headline coming in to the blog today saying OHMAN was considering an offer from the METS. For goodness sakes, sign this guy, and let the METS go after RIDGWAY, O’FLAHERTY and LOGAN. Dave your choice of cryptic as a descriptive adjective in relation to WIL’s e-mail sounds ominous to me. I’m not privy to the assessments of OHMAN vs. the trio of pretenders to the position, but the man’s proven, and he’s certainly earned the BRAVES respect. If he hasn’t earned their respect with his clubhouse humor and on field demeanor, I would consider that a serious flaw within the franchise. He’s a known quality quantity, solid when the chips are down. Its his last shot at a decent payday. Lets play ball with the man. Besides, I don’t want to see him coming on in the eight against us. He’s tough to deal with.
By Mets Stink
February 6, 2009 12:15 PM | Link to this
Mark, I thought last night’s episode of The Office was really good too. I wish they were all an hour, though. The hour long episodes are always much funnier. I think it’s because they have extra time to really develop each story line.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 12:16 PM | Link to this
happy birthday bob marley!
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this
Lew
In the Land of the Blind the one-eyed man is king
Sorry I attributed that quote to Tom Waits, but I guess it belonged to a 5th century philosopher Desiderius Arasmus
My mistake!
By KC
February 6, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this
DOB: “Joe, look forward to seeing you at Dark Star. Oh, and it’s a mystery, the origin of that name.”
DOB, it was discovered by the Germans in 1732, and was originally named “Darent Steer”, which of course means “a whale’s vagina”.
By brAves Sucios
February 6, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
DOB I was thinking of School Kids Records in Athens… the place you can buy a copy of the disc from the guy who wrote and sang on the disc. All the members I can think of still live in Athens, but there very well could be someone I’m missing that works at Criminal.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this
Jared
I agree with your philosophy, but all the contributors to this blog have convinced me that we do need a little more slugging from somewhere! When I look at some of the stats some of these guys have posted, we do need some more hitting especially timely hitting. Maybe we can get it from within! I hope so! Go Braves
By richbrave
February 6, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
LEW:
You must have long arms. Pat yourself on the back why doncha’!!!!
By Lew
February 6, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this
Canadian Brave-Even after 16 procedures on my right eye, I can still see quite well, Thank You. No need for a coronation-I don’t look all that good in Ermine Robes.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this
I can’t wait until Spring Training. I’m tired of the talk. I want to actually see these players play. WIll be difficult from where I live. I will only see Braves 19 times when they play the Mets; another 3 times when they play the Stankees; and another 3 times when they play the Red Sox (until I move down there). And maybe 2 other times when they are on national TV. So only 27-30 times my favorite team will be on TV. I’ll probably only see them a handful of times out of that. Woe is me!!!
By Anders
February 6, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this
“The Yankees ($209 mill), Tigers ($138 mill) and Mets ($138 mill) spent nearly half a billion on player salaries (more than half a billion with luxury taxes included) and played no postseason games.” - DOB
Anything on that list about revenues and net income? I’m thinking that’s how the owners keep score.While spending the most certainly gaurantees nothing on the field it generally helps create enough interest for ticket sales, advertising, concessions etc…
Speaking of concessions, the Yankees and the Cowboys have come together to form their own company that will provide the concessions at the new Yankee stadium and Cowboys stadium. When Randy Levine of the Ynaks was discussing it he said they felt there was a caling by fans for a better grade of concessions at the games as well as better service. I couldn’t agree more. An overcooked burger sitting under a heat lamp with grease soaked fries and a beer for $25 sure sucks. Knowing the Yanks they will take this over the top. I expect they will have world class concessions and make the experience a more pleasant one. Hate them as I do I have to give them credit that they never go halfway on anything. Plus they hope to brand this company and offer the services nationally. - Great, more revenue for the Yanks!
By Bob Marley
February 6, 2009 12:47 PM | Link to this
Thank you, I am taking a dirt nap, so I cannot make the party.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this
DOB
About half way through the morning my posts started to be censored. I don’t recall saying anything rude or offensive, at least I don’t remember saying anything like that. I hope I haven’t offended anyone and I apologize if I have. It was certainly not my intention. If this is a general problem, please disregard this comment!
Thanks
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 12:49 PM | Link to this
DOB
About half way through the morning my posts started to be censored. I don’t recall saying anything rude or offensive, at least I don’t remember saying anything like that. I hope I haven’t offended anyone and I apologize if I have. It was certainly not my intention. If this is a general problem, please disregard this comment!
Thanks
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 12:49 PM | Link to this
DOB
About half way through the morning my posts started to be censored. I don’t recall saying anything rude or offensive, at least I don’t remember saying anything like that. I hope I haven’t offended anyone and I apologize if I have. It was certainly not my intention. If this is a general problem, please disregard this comment!
Thanks
By Jim
February 6, 2009 12:50 PM | Link to this
DOB,
When do KJ’s and Francouer’s contracts go to arbitration, and is there a good chance that the Braves will settle with KJ at least before then? Also, is there any more information coming from the pitching camp? Has Morton showed up, and, if so, is he fully recovered from his injury issues from last year? I think too many people on this blog might be selling him short.
By brian
February 6, 2009 12:51 PM | Link to this
if the ESPN rumor mill has any truth to it, and Glavine is looking for $2-3 million guaranteed then the Braves should sign him. As a 5th starter, with his experience, and at that price we should get him. Glavine is worth that much simply to have him in the dugout working with the younger players and being the leader of the team.
The rumor mill said that the Braves might consider Andruw Jones instead. I am sorry but if it came down to Tommy or Andruw I will take Glavine every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
By the way, there was also the report of OF Jones signing with the Reds. Of course it was Jacques not Andruw and Jacques did agree to a minor league contract.
By Lew
February 6, 2009 12:54 PM | Link to this
RichBrave-Dude, when you’re right, you’re right. I sure caught all sorts of grief predicting Vasquez and Lowe. Why shouldn’t I mention I was right? I sure as hell hear it when I’m wrong.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 12:55 PM | Link to this
Lew
Nothing wrong with your insight, I was referring to JS
By Stinky
February 6, 2009 12:57 PM | Link to this
Multiple posts of the same comment will get you banned Canadianbrave, just like me.
By Salty Dawg
February 6, 2009 12:57 PM | Link to this
DOB (or anyone else for that matter)
This may have already been asked and answered - if so I apologize for being redundant.
It’s been noted that we don’t really know what the Braves limits are payroll-wise, but we’ve all speculated. How do they factor in an incentive laden deal such as might be offered to Glavine? For instance, if they offer him $1M guaranteed with incentives up to $6M, do they count the entire $6M towards payroll and stop shopping for an OF (assuming $6M is what they have left), or do they count it as $2M and consider themselves to have $4M left to spend on said OF?
By Brian
February 6, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this
Read where Cox is lobbying for A. Jones…big surprise there. Well, if they plan on going into SP without getting a LF, than why not just sign the guy to a Major league contract for $400,000? That’s probably what Cox is thinking to, maybe. Also reading where Atl. is the frontrunners for Swisher, but the Yanks won’t pay for some of his contract. Good, that guy stinks at the plate, but he is versital, so I can see the attraction.
By keylargo
February 6, 2009 1:02 PM | Link to this
Jared
I looked over Bobby Abreu’s stats pretty thoroughy a couple of weeks ago and I will have to say I am convinced he is the best outfielder available. And I would start him over Blanco or Anderson.
Abreu’s stats just have not declined significantly since 2005. One thing that shocked me is that he had 22 stolen bases last year. Blanco and Anderson had 23 combined. Somehow I have a feeling we could use the 20 dingers and 100 rbi’s that Abreu had last year.
By Johnny B
February 6, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this
I also would like to see the Braves make an offer to Garret Anderson. Dude may not be a pure power hitter but his overall consistency and solid defense would really be a bonus in LF.
.296 lifetime hitter, 19 hrs, 35 doubles, and 90 rbi on average. .796 lifetime slugging percentage and rated 5th best defensive outfielder in baseball…and his splits are great against righties and lefties.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 1:08 PM | Link to this
Stinky
This happened before the multiple posts. and I only posted that one once
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 1:11 PM | Link to this
Brian
Where did you read this about AJ?
By DAP
February 6, 2009 1:12 PM | Link to this
“While spending the most certainly gaurantees nothing on the field it generally helps create enough interest for ticket sales, advertising, concessions etc…” anders
its kind of a circular thing for the yankees at this point, but dont you think a good product comes first? you can have a good product without spending over $200mil per year (and thats just on the players). a good product=increased revenue which= increased spending…right? i dont think spending over $200mil on the 25 man roster is what got the yankees started.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 1:15 PM | Link to this
stark says the braves are top suitors for nick swisher. i hope it gets done soon.
By Anders
February 6, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this
Canadianbrave
It’s an exchange rate thing. Only 78% of your posts will come through.
By Anders
February 6, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
LEW
Take it from me. Nobody like a braggart. Especially on this blog. :)
By LKS
February 6, 2009 1:20 PM | Link to this
Canadianbrave
I am assuming you didn’t get to watch too many games this past season. Escobar is unemotional and mechanical? Really?!?!? All this past season Escobar got ripped a new one on the blog for showing TOO much emotion. IMO he has the most fire and heart on the team today. Did you see the Cubs game just for 1 example? He got hit for the 6th or 7th time in a span of two weeks and he was about to kick the pitchers a$$. Most people on this blog think he needs to tone down his emotions (I’m not one of them…I Love it) But just sayin…
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 1:22 PM | Link to this
In some ways it is easy to understand why the Yankees and mets spend the way they do! Besides the obvious size of their market and the revenue they generate, think of the enormous pressure they must be under to field a WS caliber team every year. As Atlanta fans I think we are content with a contending team,( at least I am). If we win the Ws once in a while I’m happy. Think of running a team in NY where you are supposed to win every year and have the most talented team every year. Now think of the mets who have to compete with the Yankees and their history! the pressure must be enormous!
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 1:23 PM | Link to this
DAP What are the Yankees asking for in return?
Any I just looked at Jeff Bennett’s stats in September. Very impressive. I think he is going to be the set up guy for Gonzalez, not Soriano. What do you all think?
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this
Anders
That’s even worse! Even at that rate I might still be annoying. Oh well! Holidays are over next week and I will have to curtail my blog activities anyway.
By Knowitall
February 6, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this
Is that really you Stinky? I thought you were gone forever.
By McFann O –[zzz] (Braves Fann For Life)
February 6, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this
Lew “No bad speed? How about Mac?”
Haha!
By Anders
February 6, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this
Dap
Agreed but I was only answering for last year’s numbers.The Yanks didn’t start with 4 million fans per year, the Yes network and the full extent of their branding either. That’s come in the last 5 -7 years. They keep bringing in the stars to maintain all of that. That drives up their salary but creates new revenues at the same time.
The Mets are trying to follow a similar model but on a lower tier, that’s all.
Oh yeah, and without the 26 WS titles too!
By DAP
February 6, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this
getnathan probably young pitching. but the article also says that talks hit a snag when the braves tried to get the yankees to take some of swisher’s salary.
By dmack
February 6, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this
If what Jason Stark says is true, and Bobby Cox is lobbying hard for Andruw, does anyone want to take action that Wren does not cave and sign Andruw. This being Bobby’s last contract year.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 1:33 PM | Link to this
LKS I guess I stand corrected! Maybe I will need to take a second look this year! Up here in Ontario I don’t get to see every game. But with MLB Tv Maybe this year!
By keylargo
February 6, 2009 1:37 PM | Link to this
Manny being Manny.
Gets dumped by the Dodgers after turning down $45,000,000 for two years.
People dredge up the recount of Manny knocking down the 64 year old Red Sox traveling secretary who did not produce enough tickets for Manny.
Wouldn’t it be justice if all Boras could get was $18,000,000 for two years with the Giants and we read in the paper that Manny slapped Boras around a little bit?
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 1:39 PM | Link to this
NY Yankees fans are the most obnoxious. Cubs fans are next.
Mets will always be second fiddle to the Yankees.
Mets are somewhat likable because Braves always seem to win the season series against and beat the Mets at key times (whether Braves are in the race or not).
The Yankee fans make you want to hate them. And then their management who thinks they can buy a championship. Haven’t done it yet.
I bet you Cashman would fail if he had a limited budget like Frank Wren, Billy Beane, et al, has.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 1:40 PM | Link to this
anders trudat
By Billy Walsh
February 6, 2009 1:44 PM | Link to this
Why would the braves be the top suitor for Swisher? He is too expensive. For the kind of money that Swisher is going to make over the next few years and the prospects he is going to cost….wouldn’t you rather have Abreu or Dunn? Look at Swisher’s numbers last year. They look awfully similiar to Andruw Jones last year in atlanta.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 1:44 PM | Link to this
“Mets are somewhat likable”
not by me. i hate them the most. its a fun rivalry.
By LKS
February 6, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this
Canadianbrave
Its cool. I just spend a lot of my time defending his emotion in the game and then to read someone say he doesn’t have any I had to respond. He is my #1 player. I Love watching his emotion. I hope you do get to see more games this year to see it. Hopefully he is not upset about his name being in trade talks. Lord knows I was about to lose my mind during that time!
By 35YrBravesFan
February 6, 2009 1:52 PM | Link to this
OOOwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Spring Training here we come!!! Sign Glav, let the youngsters fight for the outfield if you don’t want Abreu and let’s ROCK!!!
GO BRAVOS!!!!!!
By ORbravesFAN
February 6, 2009 1:52 PM | Link to this
DOB
Not sure, but maybe this has been explained already, but the insurance on Hudson should allow the Braves to sign someone for LF?
Abreu or Dunn I will take either over what we got.
By Joe
February 6, 2009 1:53 PM | Link to this
I am sorry, but if I had it my way, we would have a platoon in LF and CF. Platoon Diaz and Josh Anderson on righty lefty situations in LF. Than platoon Gregor Blanco and Jordan Schafer in CF in lefty righty situations. OR, we could trade Diaz and put Francoer in LF in a platoon till he get’s comfortable hitting again and sign Jermaine Dye for RF. Than use the aforementioned CF platoon. Dye would be a great stop-gap for Jason Heyward. (if money allowed). Also, when rosters expand late in the season, I would like to see a 1B platoon with Kotchman and Freddie Freeman. Give the kid a chance to smell the pro’s and get a taste.
By ORbravesFAN
February 6, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this
Just read Jason Starks column on espn.com and he said that Bobby Cox is pushing harder for Andruw than anyone else in the organization. This is scary to me because if Andruw is signed to a Major League contract, then he is going to be our CF because Bobby is in love with him.
I am a huge Bobby fan, but he has to realize that Andrum has lost it and does not want to take advise to get better. We are better without him! Get a young guy in there who can play good defense and steal some bases when he get on!
By richbrave
February 6, 2009 2:10 PM | Link to this
LEW:
Yeah, I’m down with the hell when you’re wrong, silence when you’re right routine. You go bro’. I also think the pending season will vindicate my take on OHMAN.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 2:17 PM | Link to this
Swisher can hit for power. Has not shown throughout his career that he can hit for average. And the Yankees won’t pay part of his salary. But they can shell out over $400 million for players salaries. I hate the Yankees
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 2:21 PM | Link to this
Andruw has clearly lost a step. He was losing it in his last year with the Braves. It would be a mistake for the Braves to re-sign him.
By AHAM
February 6, 2009 2:22 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, speaking of remakes:
Apparently Wes Craven’s Last House on the Left from ‘72 is being remade for release in 2009. Craven’s a producer/co-writer for this one, but from the trailer it looks like there are several major changes. The original, if you haven’t seen it, is an indie film that was Craven’s first film/horror endeavor. Low-budget horror at its finest in my opinion, well worth seeing. I thought after seeing the original that a remake could do really well, but I’m not so sure now after seeing the trailer. Effects and being able to shoot at night don’t seem to grasp the rawness that makes the original so terrifying.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this
I would like to see Diaz and Blanco in a platoon with Josh Anderson in CF (and batting leadoff) and unless Jordan Schafer tears it up in ST, send him to Gwinnett for more seasoning. on Opening night, Diaz will be in the lineup because Cole Hamels will be pitching.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this
billy walsh
good point about andruws 2007 numbers, but maybe the braves like swisher because he plays good defense, (unlike abreu or dunn) is a switch hitter (unlike abreu or dunn) is younger than dunn and much younger than abreu, is under control for three more years, with manageable yearly salaries.( only $5.3 mil in 09,$6.1ish mil in ‘10, and doesnt get questionable till 2011, at $9mil, and thats only high because of how the market is right now. by 2011, that could be below market again.)
just saying maybe those are some of the reasons the braves are interested.
im not of the opinion that swisher is THE guy, but i would be glad to get him.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 2:27 PM | Link to this
joe both blanco and shafer hit left handed. so which one sits against lefties?
getnathan swisher does not hit for average. in his career, he has gotten base at a good rate, but the highest hes ever hit is in the .260s. if we get swisher, i think he is our #5 hitter.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this
get nathan my bad, thats what you said.
By THE BEAR
February 6, 2009 2:42 PM | Link to this
I saw a headline coming in to the blog today saying OHMAN was considering an offer from the METS. For goodness sakes, sign this guy, and let the METS go after RIDGWAY, O’FLAHERTY and LOGAN
Breaking news: Braves have made an offer to Ohman. Ohman has decided to shop himself for more money and so far has not decided what he wants to do.
Question: Since the Braves own Ridgeway, Logan and O’Flaherty just how do you suggest “the Mets go after” any of them?
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 2:46 PM | Link to this
LKS
I like Escobar too. He is an immense talent. I hold to the never trade a good hitter for a good pitcher philosophy. What an arm!! Probably better than Furcal.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 6, 2009 2:49 PM | Link to this
HEY DAP , do you really think the Mets were the TEAM that could be characterized as desperate back in December?
After all, Tim Redding was 10-11 with 33 starts and an ERA of 4.95 last season pitching for the Washington Nationals. The Mets will pay him 2.25 million this year and he didn’t cost any prospects.
Javier Vasquez was 12-16 with 33 starts and an ERA of 4.67 last season pitching for the Chicago White Sox. The Braves will pay him 11.5 million this year. Vasquez and lefty Boone Logan cost the Braves four prospects.
Um, I think we can all see who is getting the better bang for their buck.
By 6-4-3
February 6, 2009 2:59 PM | Link to this
From Stark’s article on ESPN:
The only four pitchers to win in double figures in every season of the ’00s is the eclectic quartet of Tim Hudson, Javier Vazquez, Mike Mussina and Livan Hernandez.
Nice.
By Original Jon
February 6, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this
Coach, seems you are being a bit selective when mentioning stats between Redding and Vazquez. Seems you forget that Vazquez has averaged over 200 innings pitched the past 8 years except for 1, while Redding has never pitched over 200 innings in his career, not once. Vazquez averages 193 strikeouts per year, where as Redding does not. I think Vazquez’ numbers will be much better with Bobby and Roger as his manager and pitching coach. I mean, I could see why the guy had poor numbers when his own manager didnt have faith in him.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 3:09 PM | Link to this
Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
And you say all that to say? Redding won’t make 20 starts for the Mets. I can’t wait until the Braves face him in a game and get 10+ hits and 7 runs against him.
I can see Putz blowing a couple of games against Atlanta in the 8th inning this season.
Mets luck won’t change against the Braves. You better hope Mets don’t face Braves in Sept., because Braves will beat Mets.
By cabravesfan
February 6, 2009 3:11 PM | Link to this
6-4-3
I would like to add Derek Lowe to that list- in every year that he has been a starter in the ‘00’s (since 2002) he has also won double digit games (he had 42 saves in ‘00 and 24 in ‘01)
By Jeff321
February 6, 2009 3:14 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones is looking for a team that will give him playing time. One of Stark’s sources says Braves manager Bobby Cox is “lobbying harder for Jones than the rest of the baseball operation.”
(Via MLB trade rumors)
Call me shocked! Bobby doesn’t care if AJ is washed up or not. He just wants to have “Andy” on the team. What a donkey.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 6, 2009 3:14 PM | Link to this
Did someone just compare Tim Hudson to Javier Vasquez?
Dear God in heaven.
OK, here goes.
Vasquez is 113-106 since 2000. Eight games over .500 for the last nine seasons. League average would be an understatement.
Hudson is 135-75 since 2000 and I will continue to characterize his career as HALL of FAME CALIBER.
Jason Stark can stick in his ear.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 3:15 PM | Link to this
DAP
Schafer may sit. My initial response would have been Blanco, but Bobby Cox will probably ease Schafer in.
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 3:18 PM | Link to this
Rumor has it that Tim Redding is Coach’s sisters’ kid.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones is looking for a team that will give him playing time. One of Stark’s sources says Braves manager Bobby Cox is “lobbying harder for Jones than the rest of the baseball operation.”Jeff321
That falls under the category of, “you already knew this but….”
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 6, 2009 3:21 PM | Link to this
Original Jon, Vasquez 11.5 million and 12 wins. Redding 2.25 million and 10 wins.
Yes Sir, I’m being extremely selective.
Getnathan, did Micheal Phelps inspire you today? Put the bong down. Those metrosexuals are the team to beat, period.
By BigPapaT18
February 6, 2009 3:22 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves would be fine without Ohman. Don’t get me wrong, he’s good, but he’s a situational pitcher and the Braves have more pressing holes to fill and a limited amount of cash to do so. I believe that Jo-Jo could be effective in filling the role vacated by Ohman.
Contrary to popular opinion, I think the Braves should also sign Glavine. Given last year’s injury plagued starting rotation, we could use some depth. Plus, Glavine has been a model of consistency throughout his career and he’s not done yet.
Not to belabor the point, but we desperately need a run producing bat in the outfield. If the Braves seriously think that they can win with virtually he same lineup as last year, they are delusional.
By dogsbrekky
February 6, 2009 3:24 PM | Link to this
Hammerin Hank Happy Birthday mate !
The reason I started following the Braves and playing baseball all those years ago
“Shake and Bake”
I am starting to think we should let the kids and JF have competition at spring training and then let the BEST TALENT play in the show this year..
I like how Josh Anderson handled himself in the majors late 2008 so hope we give him a shot to platoon with Diaz or start at CF and as lead off !
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 3:24 PM | Link to this
Canadianbrave
It’s an exchange rate thing. Only 78% of your posts will come throughAnders
That was clever.
(Of course, these days it’d be the other way around, with only 78 percent of American posts being good in Canada, but your line was still funny.)
By 6-4-3
February 6, 2009 3:26 PM | Link to this
Coach - Stark wasn’t comparing them, it was just a fact he was stating.
cabravesfan - And if you do add Lowe into that mix, I think we’ve got something goin’ here. Maybe Wren and Bobby Cox know what they’re doing after all. Can’t wait until Hudson comes back. Not bad at all.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 3:26 PM | Link to this
Canadianbrave: I have no idea why any of your posts didn’t show up. I wasn’t online between late morning and now. Taking care of a bunch of stuff around the house and financial matters before next week.
By BRAVES1973
February 6, 2009 3:26 PM | Link to this
I AM CURIOUS WHY THE BRAVES HAVEN’T GONE AFTER KEN GRIFFEY JR. AND WONDERING WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE BRAVES AND ANDRUW…I HOPE THEY HOPE GET HIM….
By Tomahawk Matt
February 6, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this
LAST!
By Mitchie-san
February 6, 2009 3:30 PM | Link to this
Does anyone think that the Braves are thinking about not signing either Glavine or Ohman and in turn signing Abreu and Swisher?
They have 5 guys to fight it out for the 5th rotation and a few lefties in the pen.
The outfield is what needs the most help now. They could trade either Anderson or Gorkys for Swisher and have an outfield of Abreu, Swisher and Francoeur.
Personally, I think that is the way I would go if I was FW. Anyone else?
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this
The Braves like Swisher because he’s under contract for three years (reasonable salary) and is a better-than-serviceable defensive outfielder. If they’re gonna give up any talent in a trade, they want to get a guy who’s gonna be under their control a few years, so they can either keep him or trade him eventually.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 3:36 PM | Link to this
coach what are you even talking about? i didnt say the mets were desperate. what i did say is that signing redding was wierd for a team that has alot of money to spend.
there were (and are) many pitchers available even as 5th starter types who are better than redding. braden looper, randy wolf and paul byrd are all STILL available. wouldnt they have been better options for a 5th starter? to me, this shows the mets were being careful spending this offseason.
besides, the discussion had nothing to do with the braves, it was about the mets, and the fact that there has been evidence that they dont have all the money in the wolrd to spend on players this offseason, like they usually do, and like we were told they would have since they were moving ino and new park with a tv deal and salaries off the books.
i was just saying that the mets arent desperate, they are just having to be more frugal than usual.
also, coach, dont get so defensive about the huddy/vazquez comparison. stark just mentioned the pitchers who won double digits every year since 2000, and like it or not, vazquez and huddy are both on the list. its a fact.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this
coach
The Mutrosexuals are the team that blows division leads in September that are 7 games or less.
By Steve from OH
February 6, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this
Say it with me everybody: wins and losses are not informative wins and losses are not informative wins and losses are not informative.
Feel free to set it to the tune whatever genre of music you prefer.
By Jeff321
February 6, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this
That falls under the category of, “you already knew this but….”
But, I wanted to rub a little salt in the eyes of Bobby Cox groupies.
I like to think of myself as the #1 Cox hater on this blog. And will take any and every opportunity to shed light on his mind which he most likely acquired from a donkey.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 3:43 PM | Link to this
coach i believe vazquez is worth way more than redding and im surprised at how much you are standing up for a guy who has made a full season of start just twice in 6 years. vazquez has only NOT made a full season of starts once in 10 years. i dont see how you can objectively believe that redding is near the pitcher vazquez is.
By DAP
February 6, 2009 3:46 PM | Link to this
tim redding really puts the mets over the top, apparently.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 3:46 PM | Link to this
MITCHIE
Braves supposedly do not have enough money to get Swisher and Abreu.
I would give the Yankees Gorkys Hernandez for Nick Swisher straight up only. They cannot have Jeff Locke.
By Anders
February 6, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this
Original John
Regarding your 3:07 post. I don’t think the Mets were looking for a 200 inning guy when they signed Redding. As a matter of fact I’m sure of it. He’ll be their 5th starter at best and will probably be moved in and out of the rotation periodically. I’m not saying he’s better than Vasquez or will pitch as many innings but I’m not sure Vasquez is worth $9 mil more.
Guess we’ll see.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 4:00 PM | Link to this
DAP
Mutts fans can’t see straight. The second class sports citizens that they are. Second fiddle to the Yankees
By Mitchie-san
February 6, 2009 4:01 PM | Link to this
getnathan You are probably right. FW might still be able to work some magic to make room in the payroll for both. Combined they are gonna make like 12mil or so. (honestly, we dont know how much or little Abreu will accept for only one year, could be low) So maybe even 10 mil combined. I think I read that there is about that much left, correct?
By Bobby's Cox
February 6, 2009 4:01 PM | Link to this
The GM
Great post at 10:21. I totally agree. The Braves have a lot of young kids just about ready to go at the big league level and don’t need Glavine to block a spot for them. I like Glavine and AJ, but I think the team has moved in a different direction now. It would be more exciting seeing Schafer/Blanco/Anderson and Hanson/Medlin/Morton/Campillo in those 2 spots (CF & 5th rotation)
Have the Braves considered going with a 6 man rotation? Kawakami is used to it, Jair pitched an aweful lot of innings last year, they could let Hanson go longer in games, etc… There would be benefits signing Glavine and going with 6 guys, but i’d still rather have a 5 man rotation and then plug in one of the youngsters and/or Campillo if someone gets hurt.
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 4:02 PM | Link to this
For what it’s worth, Redding DID have some success against the Phillies last season.
By Bobby's Cox
February 6, 2009 4:05 PM | Link to this
IMO, Abreau is the best FA available, and Nady would be the best trade piece, again, of all options available. I’d be upset if we traded for Swisher. Now, if the braves could pry Nelson Cruz away from Texas, that would be the absolute best option….
By Thrillhouse44
February 6, 2009 4:05 PM | Link to this
Wow, Robert, I mean Jeff321, that’s an original and noble stance. You seem awful proud of that. Hey, whatever gets you through the day.
By Bobby's Cox
February 6, 2009 4:07 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t be surprised if Brandon Jones stepped up and had a big year, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t either. I think the Braves feel the same being satisfied enough going into ST with what they have for the OF.
By dogsbrekky
February 6, 2009 4:22 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t be surprised if Bobby Cox haters had very tiny weenies… but then again Bobby Cox haters usually have no idea he has won the 4th most games in history… coaching good, great and terrible teams….. EOFS
All those players want to play for him and not leave because he sucks…. yeah right on dufus
By Butch Haynes
February 6, 2009 4:25 PM | Link to this
I guess I’ll see all of you tonight at the Rick Springfield concert at Wild Bill’s in Duluth. That dude can rock.
By Jeff321
February 6, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this
Thrillhouse44 - I have no idea who this Robert is your talking about.
No shame in my game.. I mean, what’s the sense in cheer leading for Cox anyway? Just because he’s the manager? Isn’t the object still to win?
By getnathan
February 6, 2009 4:35 PM | Link to this
MITCHIE
Having both Swisher and Abreu definitely would make the lineup a lot more threatening, but I don’t think it’s realistic.
By ncscoots
February 6, 2009 4:35 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s, Brandon Jones did start to recover his stroke in August, a little. Maybe he got a little healthier by then, I dunno. Five dingers in 18 games, and cut his K rate way down. Maybe Gil in Mechanicsville or richbrave saw him late and could give us some thoughts on the guy.
No winter ball for him this year, after getting that tweak last year. At least, I don’t think he played, too lazy to look it up. :-)
By Lew
February 6, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this
There’s no guarantee that Heyward will be ready to plug into left field next Spring. Having someone like Swisher, who is under control for a few years makes him a much more valuable addition than a one year fix. I sure would hate to be going through this again in a year.
By Thrillhouse44
February 6, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
No shame, not a problem, Jeff. Robert was a character who spent each and every post attacking Cox by referring to him as Donkey. His schtick got old pretty quick. I agree, we’re all (minus Anders) Braves fans here, and that’s what’s important.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
Uh, Coach
Redding — Career ERA 4.92, 0.57 runs above league average; pitched more than 110 innings twice
Vazquez — Career ERA 4.32, 0.20 runs below league average, pitched more than 190 innings 10 straight seasons
Discuss.
By Johnny B
February 6, 2009 4:52 PM | Link to this
In his column on ESPN Onley thinks the price for Garret Anderson or Griffey Jr. could fall as low as 500,000 to 1 million on a one year deal.
If either were willing to play for that, I would much prefer the Braves sign one of them as to try and resurrect AJs career.
Also, there’s a rumor that the Braves asked the Yanks to pick up a portion of Swishers 22.5 million contract, to which they refused.
If Swisher rebounds from last year, he could be a nice addition at an affordable price (contract wise) but not at the price of multiple prospects, especially pitching prospects…Getting one of the veterans available short term seems more palatable IMO.
I would love to have Ohman return but given the choice between signing him or Glavine, I prefer they resign Tommy. Proven starting pitching is a far greater commodity than a situational middle guy.
Say what you will about Tommy, if dude is healthy he can easily add 10 to 12 wins to the back end of the rotation at a very affordable price. I also think he feels he has something to prove and will be motivated to end his career on a winning note.
As for some folks suggestion that he might “hold” Hanson back…Give me a break! I’m as hopeful as any that young Hanson blossoms into the stud / ace many are predicting. One half year at high AA and an outstanding fall league showing is still a stretch to facing major league hitters every 5th day and being successful at it.
Make no mistake, if young Hanson is lights out this spring no one will be “holding” him back…Even at that, a little seasoning at AAA will not wouldn’t hurt, IMO.
Just my assorted thoughts and ramblings for the blog!
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 4:58 PM | Link to this
At $1 million each, I’d sign both GA and Griffey and platoon Frenchy.
By Bobby's Cox
February 6, 2009 4:59 PM | Link to this
FW might still be able to work some magic to make room in the payroll for both
Signing Abreau or trading for Nady likely means the end of the Matt Diaz era in Atlanta. The most likely scenario to free up cash for either is to trade Diaz and his $1.225 million contract. They’d have Norton, Prado, Blanco, B Jones, etc.. to backup LF and wouldn’t want Diaz’s salary.
Kotsay just had surgery on his back (surprised?), and the Red Sox have always been interested….
Just saying, that’s one way to free up money if need be, though not a lot.
By Steve Keller
February 6, 2009 5:01 PM | Link to this
Braves should consider Orlando Hudson at 2B and platoon Johnson / Diaz in LF. It will improve the ‘D’ and we’ll get 25 HRs in LF. Abreu may be a cancer (Phillies & Yankees didn’t win with him and let him go), Dunn & Swisher have too many Ks’ with not enough ‘D’ and Nady is a one year loaner.
By Jeff321
February 6, 2009 5:07 PM | Link to this
Thrillhouse44 — No problem.
I don’t spend every post attacking Cox.. Only when he deserves it.
But, Cox isn’t really my main priority here. I enjoy talking about the games and players.
However, I see MLB Premium has a new chat feature this year..
By Bobby's Cox
February 6, 2009 5:13 PM | Link to this
If Swisher rebounds from last year, he could be a nice addition at an affordable
Then we’d have an “if” in LF, and an”*if” in RF, not to mention a huge salary we couldn’t unload if he does have another “off-year”. Too many “if’s”, which kinda reminds me of 2008.
No on swisher. Please….
Steve Keller Not a bad idea about O-Hudson. I’ve seen it mentioned here a few times, and wouldn’t mind that idea. Hudson’s been rounding into quite a nice hitter the last 2 years. Then again, he’s coming off that wrist surgery, so maybe there’s a risk factor there too.
By Tomas
February 6, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves should make a trade for an outfielder but not Nick Swisher or Xavier Nady because of the simple fact there are better options for the same price in the free agent market.
But what other options, well maybe David DeJesus form the Royals. The Royals payroll is said to be higher than expected, and this guy is making 3.6 million in a crowded outfield. They just got Coco Crisp who is basicly the same kind of player De Jesus is only a little bit better defensively(and more expensive). DeJesus can play CF or LF, has a great OBP, bats 300, and had a 452SLG %. This guy would give the Braves a good defensive outfielder with an average or below average arm, and a leadoff hitter who has a high OBP, and bats 300(by the way he did have more homeruns(12) than the three Brave outfielders). Beats out trading for Nick Swisher.
But what will the Royals ask in return? Well if you ask me, I think they need a SS or 2B(Alviles would play one of those positions), a catcher, and a power hitting outfielder(not named Jose Guillen), another starter in case of injury (not named Horacio Ramirez), and bulpen. Well the Braves don’t have room in their 40-man roster(the royals have 3 spots remaining), if the Braves traded James Parr, Anthony Lerew, Boone Logan, and Brandon Jones for David Dejesus I’d think it would be a good move, because this will permit the Braves to get a good outfielder and open up roster spots for Will Ohman, Tom Glavine, and who knows maybe Andruw Jones.
Imagine that, Andruw, Dejesus, Franceour, Anderson, Blanco, Schafer, and Diaz all competing for the three spots in the outfield. Obviously Dejesus and Frenchy would get two of those spots, and if Andruw manages to go back in time to his former self it would be a tremendous outfield, and if not Diaz could platoon in LF with Anderson or Schafer.
By mitchie-san
February 6, 2009 5:22 PM | Link to this
I don think that it is that far fetched at all to sign both. Diaz is definatly expendable as Bobby’s Cox just said. Certainly Diaz and/or Prado would get Swisher. Yes, they (Yankees) dont need another outfielder, but we could make him go away and use Prado and a prospect in the move.
Abreu most likely will sign a low one year and try again next year on the market.
I would like Glavine for one more year, but I think its for centimental value more than anything else. Ohman is the man, but spending 3 mil or so for a reliever after one good year is a little crazy. I am a fan of Ohman and would like him to be on the diamond, but he alone is isnt going to get us to the playoffs.
We need to score more runs, period. I think adding a leadoff guy and a clean-up hitter is WAYYY more imoprtant than a fifth starter and a third lefty in the bullpen…
Am I wrong??
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 5:26 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
O-Dog’s a switch-hitter. But he doesn’t bring anything to the Braves’ offense they don’t already have.
If they’re going to spend up to $10 million a year on a free agent, get a legitimate power threat (Dunn) or an on-base machine (Abreu). O-Dog isn’t that great at either.
By Steve Keller
February 6, 2009 5:27 PM | Link to this
I’m bettting the Braves like Swisher since he has fire in his belly and a MLB heritage. He could play CF which may be a plus if Josh doesn’t work out. He could also play 1B if Kotchman turns into a Thorman instead of a Grace. Personally, I think Swisher is a risk but so is Hudson, to some extent, with his wrist.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 5:28 PM | Link to this
Hey, Tomas,
You mentioned DeJesus! Next someone will bring up Carl Crawford ;-)
By The Vet
February 6, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this
I say “IF” not gonna get a for sure outfielder give AJ a 400k deal it could be a high reward deal considering how cheap he is. if he does terrible just st8 up release him. but that not my choice on what we should do, depeding on what we would have to trade away for Swisher, i like him, i know the reason the guy hasnt hit for high average this guy has been in every spot in a batting order, trying to do different things, he hit leadoff for the Sox and was in the 4-5-6 spots on the A’s, he’s 28 under contract for 3 yrs switch hitter and can play all outfield spots and 1st base. he’ll hit 25 dingers, and bat 250-275. he is owed around 5 mil this year. , Garret Anderson prolly could come around same price as swisher would be with out trading prospects, he decent defender and will hit 290. and 15-20 dingers. i think abreu or dunn will take all of our remaining money. and with so many option for a 5th starter i say (as much as i hate to) not sign Glavine , we need outfield help , more.
By nolie
February 6, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this
Per Stark
Swish-hitting: In the meantime, the Braves seem to have emerged as the club most interested in Yankees outfielder Nick Swisher. But there are indications the teams got hung up when the Braves asked the Yankees to eat some of the $22.05 million Swisher has coming over the next three years — and got turned down flat.
By Rick Astley
February 6, 2009 5:35 PM | Link to this
Blanco? Really? In 2008:
Gregor Blanco: .676 OPS
Jeff Francoeur: .653 OPS
Those are both terrible. If the Braves must inexplicably insist on starting Francoeur, they should not start Blanco too. Maybe if/when Blanco can slug at least a mere .350.
By Rick Astley
February 6, 2009 5:41 PM | Link to this
“O-Dog’s a switch-hitter. But he doesn’t bring anything to the Braves’ offense they don’t already have. If they’re going to spend up to $10 million a year on a free agent, get a legitimate power threat (Dunn) or an on-base machine (Abreu). O-Dog isn’t that great at either.”
Amen. His non-desert-inflated numbers (stats outside of Chase in Arizona) are bad too.
The Braves already have a good second baseman in Kelly Johnson (MLB’s site today called him one of the more underrated infielders in the game today) and two adequate backups in Infante and Prado. Signing Orlando Hudson is just a gross waste of resources.
Please get a real, power-hitting left fielder.
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 5:43 PM | Link to this
BFIR I guess we are way beyond Crawford, Figgins, DeJesus and Freel!!!
Those were the good old days.
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 5:47 PM | Link to this
Rick Astley Blanco is and always will be a stop gap starter, or back up. I suspect he will be out of baseball in 2-3 years. As for Francoeur, he will start because of 2005, 2006 and 2007. If he doesn’t revert back to that form, he will be out of baseball in 3-5 years, and for sure out of the starting lineup in 1-2 years.
Just my 2 cents worth….
By Johnny B
February 6, 2009 5:47 PM | Link to this
* Bobbys Cox*
I was NOT advocating a trade for Swisher and that’s exactly why I said “IF”. You are correct, there’s to many “ifs”.
I don’t want to trade prospects when there are options much more palatable as I mentioned, GA or JR makes much more sense economically and on the low risk / high reward scale.
By Rick Astley
February 6, 2009 5:55 PM | Link to this
Wayne, Francoeur was terrible in 2006. He was one of the worst everyday outfielders that year with that .293 OBP. In 2007 he was pretty average and only looked “good” that year when it was compared to his 2006 and, now, 2008.
By larry pennington
February 6, 2009 5:56 PM | Link to this
give andrew a try it would be better for the brave to do it. what if someone else does and he turn out to be the old andrew. if he hit a little with some power it will be better than what we had last year.
By Johnny B
February 6, 2009 6:00 PM | Link to this
I like Glavine not for sentimental reasons but for what he can add to the back of the rotation.
Ohman may have been the “man” last year as a situational lefty but his last 2 years prior to that were poor. He’s had 2 above average years out of his 8 years in the league.
When the Braves picked him up last year he was no more a proven commodity than the guys we have vying for the job this year.
Would love to have him back, but not for 3 million being rumored. Rather spend it on Glavine and / or a GA or JR in LF.
By Random
February 6, 2009 6:01 PM | Link to this
flange1: “To me it’s a character issue more so than a performance issue… . what do you think of Manny knocking down the team’s traveling secretary [Jack McCormick] for not getting him enough tickets on 1 day’s notice?”
I think this:
An argument ensued and Ramirez pushed McCormick, sending him to the ground.
Later, the two met behind closed doors and Ramirez apologized to McCormick, who accepted the gesture. No further disciplinary action is expected against Ramirez.
“Sometimes things happen,” said Terry Francona, “and when they do, we choose to handle them internally. I’m satisfied with how we handled this.”
Asked on Sunday to comment on the altercation, Ramirez responded: “That’s over. We’re fine now.”
Added McCormick: “It was an unfortunate misunderstanding and it’s over with as far as I’m concerned.”
I also think that the incident happened on Saturday, 28 Jun, was over with on the same day and was reported by the Providence Journal Monday, 30 Jun and by the Boston Globe on Tuesday, 1 Jul:
McCormick, the team’s longtime traveling secretary, added that he harbors no resentment or ill will toward Ramírez.
“I just want it to die,” he said. “It’s over. He apologized. That’s it. I want us to get back to our winning ways.
“There’s no animosity on my part. I hope there’s not on his. I think he feels the same way. I’m satisfied with how the club handled this. Everything’s fine.” . Several players, including David Ortiz, referred to the team as a “family” while discussing the incident. Ortiz slung an arm around Ramírez’s shoulders while the left fielder was addressing the media. “We are a family,” he said. “We deal with things here.”
And I think it was then nearly a month later that Dan Shaughnessy decided to exercise his outrage at the incident for his own purposes.
By JETHRO
February 6, 2009 6:07 PM | Link to this
Swisher hit .219 last year and has never had a 100 RBI season. What is the great appeal there?
By I'm Stunned
February 6, 2009 6:11 PM | Link to this
In our division, one of the best off season moves that no one is talking about is the Met’s acquisition of Tim Redding.
The former Washington National nailed down 33 starts last season, of which 20 were efforts where he gave up three earned runs or less. His 4.95 ERA is deceiving. The Nats were 20-13 when he started. Coach
my God man where do you come up with this crap all the time. Tim Redding a good pickup? He has a career ERA of 4.92 so what is deceiving about his 4.95? So what if they won 20 of his starts? It sure in h3ll wasn’t because he pitched well.W/L tell you next to nothing about a pitcher’s season.
Just about everybody in baseball ridiculed that signing, man. I think you say this kinda stupid crap just to get a rise cause absolutely nobody in their right mind could consider Tim Redding as a substantial signing. You never cease to amaze me, and i don’t mean that in a good way. You come out with a decent post or two and then out of the blue is something so against common sense baseball as to be staggering.
By flange1
February 6, 2009 6:21 PM | Link to this
Random,
Nice post at 6:01. I glad the two of them are straight with each other.
But their are only 3 people that are allowed to push a 64 year old man down, his 84 year old mother, his 64 year old wife or his 64 year old girl friend.
There is no reason AT ALL for a man in his 30’s to push a 64 year old man down.
Total and complete lack of class. or character if you prefer.
Manny and Jack might be OK about the incident, but adults (IE 30 year old outfielders) don’t push SENIOR CITIZENS down EVER.
No matter how the incident can be “spun” the result in my mind is always LACK OF CHARACTER.
By Braves Fan n NC
February 6, 2009 6:23 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Why don’t the braves have any interest in Luke Scott? He has good power averaging 21 hr’s a year the last two years. He plays left field, and is under team control for a few years.
By alan in utah
February 6, 2009 6:33 PM | Link to this
Bring back Andruw, Galvine and Ohman. Give LF a chance to sort it’s self out with what we have. Remember in ‘07 Andruw hit 26 HR’s and drove in 94 runs. I think it’s worth the money Wren would have to spend to give him a major league contract. Who would the Braves have to take off the 40 man roster…Lerew? And please stop giving away prospects, I’ll be watching the Rangers this year just to see how bad the Tex trade really was. A Braves fan since ‘57. Go Braves!!!!!!!
By The Vet
February 6, 2009 6:36 PM | Link to this
I think Tim Redding is a good pickup just not for the team that signed him (METS) he is a decent vetern that can be a solid,decent #5 or a long man. i think Luke Scott is in the O’s plans is why he isnt surfaced on anything. but hell yeah i’d like to have him play for us
By Hello?
February 6, 2009 6:42 PM | Link to this
Get Swisher - Stop being cheap. Insisting NY pick up part of a 7 mil yearly salary is embarrassing. Sure NY will do it if you hand over Gorkys/Schafer/Freeman/Heyward/Hanson. But you don’t want to do that. Geez, Matt Diaz is your left fielder today. Wake up.
By Bubdylan
February 6, 2009 6:44 PM | Link to this
flange1, I see it your way.
Manny apologists throw around a lot of “oh, so you never lost your temper and made a mistake?” and “he made an error in judgment” bunk.
But that’s bull. Error in judgment is when somebody who is a normally responsible and nice person does an irresponsible or cruel thing. What Manny did was a perfectly natural overflow of his everyday ways of thinking, fueled by countless selfish decisions that have left him morally sloppy. And that sh*t is habitual. And it’s hard to change habits, even when you WANT to, much less when there’s a household phrase excusing you for just “being who you are,” as if most every bad deed done in the history of man wasn’t done by somebody just “being who they were.” Sorry, Mrs. Steinbergh, just Adolf bein’ Adolf…” (Yes, I did… sue me.)
He knocked an old man down over some baseball tickets. And it makes perfect sense that it was Manny Ramirez who did this.
And he quit on his team. And this also fits perfectly with the rest of his actions. The dude is a jerk. On purpose. Habitually. Consistently. Disruptively. (I’ll quit before I break into a that Munchkin song…)
And baseball’s full of blah blah and why single out yeah yeah and Babe Ruth was a yadda yadda. Well, I still don’t want Manny. Call it an error in judgment. I’d rather finish in last place.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 6:47 PM | Link to this
Braves Fan n NC
Reports are that Scott could be odd man out in Balmer with the signing of Wigginton. It couldn’t cost as much to get him as it would to get Nady, and if you rule out Nady’s insane 2008 with Pittsburgh, Scott looks about as good.
Interesting idea.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 6:48 PM | Link to this
… just Adolf bein’ AdolfBubdylan
Oh man, what a line!
By Braveheart
February 6, 2009 6:48 PM | Link to this
In some ways it is easy to understand why the Yankees and mets spend the way they do! Canadian Brave
What i found interesting was that the Mets had 13 investment accounts with Madoff. We whine about the money these teams give the players, but rarely wonder enough how much the franchises are making off the fans that are not directly reinvested into what we see on the field.
To have all of these investment accounts, you have to believe that the Mets could be spending far more money than they already do if they weren’t investing some of their earned profits in the investment markets instead of the free agency market.
And you have to believe that Madoff wasn’t the only guy they had investment accounts with…. or at least, if you’re a Mets fan, you’d hope that the franchise wasn’t so foolish that they didn’t diversify their investments with more than one dude. So how many investment accounts do they have? And how much of the profits are being pocketed?
It’s smart business to not just reinvest all of the money into the roster. It’s good business to set aside money in investments so that their money grows and that the team has diversified revenue streams for the future. However, we too often hear these teams cry poverty or that they don’t have the money to get the guy we want them to get when they actually do have who knows how much money sitting out there somewhere being unused in who knows how many investment accounts.
The question then for me is how much money do the Braves have being unused in how many investment accounts? Can we believe them then when they claim we can’t afford this dude or that dude?
Madoff stole the money the Mets owners were stealing and/or just hiding from the fans and the players. It hasn’t yet been alleged yet the Madoff or someone like him stole the money AOL/TW or LM may be stealing or just hiding from the players and fans.
By N8
February 6, 2009 6:52 PM | Link to this
“One of Stark’s sources says Braves manager Bobby Cox is “lobbying harder for Jones than the rest of the baseball operation.”
Hmmm. Are you people ready for the following sound coming over the PA at Turner Field this year….
“Batting 4th… #25…. Centerfielder…..ANDRUW JONES!!”
Don’t laugh. Tell me you didn’t think the same thing, the SECOND you read that alleged scenario of Bobby “lobbying” for him.
I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
By Plato
February 6, 2009 6:54 PM | Link to this
Seems to me our Bravos are foot-draggin on several fronts. That just me?
By Braveheart
February 6, 2009 6:56 PM | Link to this
A 60 yo man should take a beating before a HOF manager’s wife takes a beating from her husband. Get off the hypocritcal high horse and just leave the argument at the Braves can’t or won’t afford Manny.
By Tim Redding Blows
February 6, 2009 6:56 PM | Link to this
Tim Redding Hits the Jackpot, Odalis Perez Gets Jack: Why the Discrepancy?
Odaliz Perez had a pretty good season for the Nationals in 2009 and was in many ways the equal of fellow teammate Tim Redding.
No, he never reached the heights predicted by the baseball world when he was a top prospect for the Atlanta Braves, and no, he’s never come close to repeating his success with the Dodgers when he won 27 games with a 3.51 ERA in 2002 and 2003.
But Perez, who had signed a $850,000 contract in 2007, had hoped to parlay his 7-12, 4.34 season into a two-year deal worth-hopefully-$5 million or so.
His agent had made it clear that sure, Perez would consider coming back to Washington, but in the end he believed that his client would have many more profitable offers to choose from.
Those offers never materialized, however, and on Friday the Washington Nationals announced that Perez had been signed to a minor league deal with an invitation to the team’s major league camp.
This is quite a comedown for a pitcher that earned nearly $8 million dollars with the Kansas City Royals in 2007.
It isn’t unusual that pitchers like Perez-adequate but not above average-have found a limited market in this bad baseball economy.
What is strange is that while Perez had to settle for a minor league contract with a 102 loss team, Redding, his former teammate, was able to garner a one-year, $2.25 million dollar contract with the New York Mets, and was one of the first free agent signings of the offseason.
Put a different way, the Mets paid $225,000 per Redding win while the Nationals paid $47,500 for every Perez victory.
At 31, Perez is just one year older than Redding and has more than twice the number of major league wins as Redding.
Perez’ career ERA, at 4.34, is a more than a half-run lower than Redding’s 4.92.
And Perez is a lefty, always a hot-commodity for any major league pitching staff. Redding is a right-hander.
Though a 7-12 record isn’t particularly impressive, Perez really did pitch pretty well overall. Half of Perez’s 30 starts lasted into the sixth or seventh nning, the same as Redding.
By Plato
February 6, 2009 6:59 PM | Link to this
Madoff would be safer in prison than in public. lol
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 7:03 PM | Link to this
Plato
I think the Braves are like a lot of other teams who could use a corner OF. They’re waiting for the Dodgers to sign Manny or tell Manny to take a hike and then sign Dunn. Dunn’s contract will set the ceiling for the remaining FA and possibly set a value for corner OF who might be traded.
If Dunn signs for $10 million a year, then Abreu, etc., should expect $X. If he signs for $6 million a year, it’ll be less.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 7:08 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
That’s what aggravated me so much when everyone was upset with Glavine for leaving the Braves. He wasn’t being greedy or disloyal to the poor braves management, he was simply upholding his right to bargain for his fair share of the profit
By Bubdylan
February 6, 2009 7:12 PM | Link to this
A 60 yo man should take a beating before a HOF manager’s wife takes a beating from her husband. Get off the hypocritcal high horse and just leave the argument at the Braves can’t or won’t afford Manny. Braveheart
You have a decent point, but Bobby Cox isn’t a fountain of destructive and selfish deeds.
My high horse isn’t really all that hypocritical. I don’t do those things. I’m not sure I’m not being judgmental, or arrogant, or unbalanced. But unless I’m tackling old dudes in my sleep, or something along those lines, not hypocritical exactly.
As for just leaving the argument to the economics of the Manny thing, I picked up the argument where I found it going on, and gave my two cents. You’ll notice I don’t rant much and maybe give me the benefit of the doubt.
By Aristotle
February 6, 2009 7:16 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones’ lack of professional ethics has become so flagrant that it merits everyones’ complete attention. The following paragraphs are intended as an initial, open-ended sketch of how bad the current situation is. From a purely technical point of view, if it were up to Andruw, schoolchildren would be taught reading, ‘riting, and greed. Do we not, as rational men and women, owe it to both our heritage and our posterity to exercise all of our basic rights to the maximum? I think we do.
We don’t need to demonize Andruw; he is already a demon, and furthermore, many people are incredulous when I tell them that he intends to threaten the existence of human life, perhaps all life on the planet. “How could Andruw be so rapacious?”, they ask me. “It doesn’t seem possible.” Well, it is unquestionably possible, and now I’ll explain exactly how Andruw plans to do it. But first, you need to realize that permitting loquacious so-called experts to cater to the basest instincts of infernal pantywaists is tantamount to suicide. That should serve as the final, ultimate, irrefutable proof that Andruw’s long-term goals cannot stand on their own merit. That’s why they’re dependent on elaborate artifices and explanatory stories to convince us that it’s okay to treat people like sanctimonious cutthroats. Now that you’ve read this, let me challenge you, the reader, not just to help me fight on the battleground of ideas for our inalienable individual rights, but also to educate others about what I’ve written.
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 7:24 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan and flange
Amen on the Manny perpective.
Random Friend, you should change your moniker to Random Manny Apologist.
I am just not understanding your love fest with Manny??
(you guys been spoonin’??)
:o
By Danga
February 6, 2009 7:27 PM | Link to this
Aristotle referring to someone else as loquacious. There is a bit of irony.
By Bubdylan
February 6, 2009 7:27 PM | Link to this
Aristotle, ever heard of “never use a ten dollar word where a ten cent word will do?” I mean, sometimes there’s no other word but a fancy one that has the exact connotation you’re shooting for, but not THAT damn often.
By flange1
February 6, 2009 7:30 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
There is no arguing that Bobby Cox’s violence toward his wife is not acceptable. At all. Even with the excuse that he may have been drinking.
But 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
From my generation’s perspective, hitting a senior citizen is not acceptable. At All.
My point is still the same as yesterday, I don’t want Manny at the league minimum. I believe he has no character and he quit on his team.
Sorry if you don’t agree!
By nolie
February 6, 2009 7:32 PM | Link to this
A salary level of $140 million might not leave enough left for someone like Manny. I also read today that the Mets are signing Elmer Dessens to a minor league contract. Now I’m certain they have no money left. Believe me-you’ll just LOVE Elmer. Really y’all will. He’s very effective. Lew
I was reading today-maybe Stark_ that the biggest increase in payroll this year will be the Phils, costing them an extra 30 Mil just to resign last years team.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 7:33 PM | Link to this
Why don’t the braves have any interest in Luke Scott?Braves Fan n NC
Who said they didn’t? I haven’t heard his name mentioned, so I haven’t written his name. But it’s not like the Braves give us a list of guys they’re interested in.
By Old Donk
February 6, 2009 7:34 PM | Link to this
Aristotle could you change my diaper? And if so, do you bat right handed as we need a LF. Heard you were “lights out” in the Greek boys league.
By Steve from OH
February 6, 2009 7:35 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, while beating one’s wife is a despicable act (which I will never condone), I’ve stated before that the main reason I don’t want Manny’s issues is that he brings them into the clubhouse, disrupting the rest of the team. While I know players hear of outside transgressions, it doesn’t directly affect them on the same level as some of Manny’s shenanigans do. That’s the distinction I’m making, because like you said, I ain’t perfect and I’m not going to criticize too harshly the actions of others.
However, it should be duly noted that I neither beat women or senior citizens, so I feel as though I can speak upon this topic without being a hypocrite :). Oh, and you are right—reason numero uno is that the Braves can’t afford Manny.
By David O'Brien
February 6, 2009 7:37 PM | Link to this
There’s no guarantee that Heyward will be ready to plug into left field next Spring. Having someone like Swisher, who is under control for a few years makes him a much more valuable addition than a one year fixLew
Good point, Lew. And I’d add that there’s a better chance than Heyward will NOT be ready to plug into the outfield next spring, given that he’s only had a couple of weeks above the low-A level, and none above high-A. And the fact that he’s a mere 19 and still a bit raw in some parts of his hitting, though developing rapidly.
By Steve from OH
February 6, 2009 7:38 PM | Link to this
flange, hitting a senior citizen isn’t acceptable for ANY generation!
And if drinking makes you an angry drunk, then you shouldn’t drink. That’s no excuse.
By nolie
February 6, 2009 7:39 PM | Link to this
CanadianBrave: It was Ernie Harwell. One of the greatest ever. Steve
I thought he was listening to Braves games not Tigers games. I must have misread that. In case I didn’t it would have been Ernie Johnson
By Areopagus
February 6, 2009 7:47 PM | Link to this
For the record, I’m changing my name here from Aristotle to Areopagus. This is a permanent change.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 7:48 PM | Link to this
I believe the uncertainty over the events of the coming season are resulting in a major cathexis among the posters on our blog site. Lets all take a collective deep breath. There: I am sure that many of the hostilities generated by the unknowns of the next couple of weeks have now been cleansed. Perhaps this catharsis will result in a more productive and informative blog, with a body of valuable insights and information submitted for each and everyone of us to share and enjoy. After we, as bloggers on a common site are much like a team, each member contributing there own insight and perspective for the good of the whole.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 7:54 PM | Link to this
D** where is that retract button?
By nolie
February 6, 2009 7:54 PM | Link to this
Tom Waits said, In the Land of the Blind the One-eyed Man is King Canadian
yeah well he stole that fron Erasmus I think from 500 years ago . guess he musta figgered nobody was still around to remember. ;-)
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 7:55 PM | Link to this
As the Manny saga goes longer and longer, the smile on my face grows wider and wider!
Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy…
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 7:59 PM | Link to this
Nolie
I think I already pointed that out somewhere way up there !
My apologies Again
By Plato
February 6, 2009 8:01 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the info BF-Rockies.
By Bubdylan
February 6, 2009 8:02 PM | Link to this
D** where is that retract button? Canadianbrave
lol, if you find it, pass it over here.
Cathexis??
By nolie
February 6, 2009 8:05 PM | Link to this
Any I just looked at Jeff Bennett’s stats in September. Very impressive. I think he is going to be the set up guy for Gonzalez, not Soriano. What do you all think? get
I think he is gonna be the groundball out guy since he had one of the highest totals in the bigs last year. If Sori is healthy he will be the 8th inning guy with some saves here and there.
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this
What happened with Austin Kearns. Was he a victim of the “drug testing” era? At one point several years ago, he was an up and coming power source. Never much for average, but he could crush it.
Same for Richie Sexson. If I were an AL team, I would sign him to DH against lefties. He crushes lefties.
By Areopagus
February 6, 2009 8:15 PM | Link to this
While you’re likely sick of hearing about it Old Donk, it is crucial that you read this post. As this post will make clear, after hearing about Cox’s egocentric attempts to create a system of baseball snobbism characterized by secret files, closed meetings, gag orders, and statutory immunity, I was saddened. I was saddened that Bobby Cox has lowered himself to this level. It is no news that he will stop at nothing to lead us down a path of pain and suffering. This may sound outrageous but if it were fiction I would not be writing this. As it stands, stubborn loonies often take worms or similar small animals and impale them on a pin to enjoy watching them twist and writhe as they slowly die. Similarly, Cox enjoys watching respectable people twist and writhe whenever he threatens to cause an increase in Francoeur plate appearances, teetotalism, failure, and vice. As I conclude this post, let me remind you that my goal in writing it was not only to beat Cox at his own game. I sought also to use this as a means to stick to the facts and offer only those arguments that can be supported by those facts.
By Reality
February 6, 2009 8:23 PM | Link to this
Braves offer 1-2 million contract to Tom Glavine.
By McFann O –[zzz] (Braves Fann For Life)
February 6, 2009 8:26 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan @ 6:44—
With you all the way.
By ccrider
February 6, 2009 8:36 PM | Link to this
I would guess if the Bowman story is correct and the offer is 1 to 2 million with no incentives, we have seen the last of Tom Glavine. I think the Braves have made the decision to spend on a bat and I expect Ohman and Glavine will not return. I hope for all us fans they made the right choice. Time will tell!
By Jim
February 6, 2009 8:38 PM | Link to this
DOB - @ 7:37PM -
Agree completely re Heyward. He might make it to team late in ‘10, but more likley ‘11, or even ‘12, full time. So getting Swisher - although his BA and last year scare me - might make sense. Giving Abreu a two-year deal might be even better, in Abreu and his agent would realize that next year might not even be as good as this year for FA corner OFs.
B. Jones hit .267 against all pitching and LHP and RHP last year. Against RHP, he was .267/.702; 1/17 and 1/1SB in 101 ABs. Anderson was .341/.915 and 8/9SB in 91 ABs against RHP. Blanco was .248/.693; 0/6; 3/5 in 105 ABs against LHP, and .252/.671; 1/32; 10/13 in 325 ABs against RHP. Based on this, and w/o a trade, you have to hope Schafer is ready to play CF; Francoeur rebounds and the Anderson/Diaz platoon will work in LF. Indeed, right now, and w/o a trade, LF looks like our best OF hitting position. Beased on this, I think the question is when, not whether, we pick up a Nady or Abreu. Then, Anderson or Schafer can give us a stronger bat in CF. Schafer hit 15 HRs in 565 ABs in A and AA last season. He was a bit stronger against RHP (.313/.736) than LHP (.220/.670) in Mexican winter league. If Schafer isn’t ready in April, we should also remember that Diaz hit RHP very well in ‘06 and ‘07. Starting OF, w/o trade, will likley be Diaz, Anderson & Francoeur. So line-up would have 5 left-hand hitters and 4 RH hitters (CJ switch hits). Against right hand pitching, bat Anderson first and Diaz 8th, in front of JF. Against LHP, Anderson hits 8th. RHP: Anderson, Esco, CJ, MAC, KJ, CK, JF, MD. Against LHP: Esco, KJ, CJ, Mac, CK, JF, MD, Anderson. Critical element - JF has to return to at least 2007 form.
By Butch Haynes
February 6, 2009 8:50 PM | Link to this
Hey Guys, where is everybody? I’m here at the Rick Springfield concert and I thought all of you would be here by now. I’ll just wait for you guys up by the stage - I’ll be the one with the Jesse’s Girl t-shirt on.
By Braveheart
February 6, 2009 8:54 PM | Link to this
Steve. bubdylan. I’m not saying you’re hypocrites b/c you beat women or senior citizens or anything like that. The hypocrisy I’m pointing towards, not directly you two guys, is that too many on here are getting all sanctimonious about Manny beating an old man while at the same time ignoring the domestic violence b/w Bobby and his wife. Anyone screaming and yelling that Manny shouldn’t be here because of his act of violence should’ve also been saying the same about Bobby and his violent act.
As a New York Giants fan, I can understand the sentiment about the clubhouse culture being contaminated by certain creatures dwelling within it. Tiki Barber was one of the best RBs in team history. Shockey was one of the best TEs in team history. The Giants won nothing with them and won it all without them, seemingly because their egomaniacal behaviors were no longer getting in the way of Eli doing his job as the QB. So I can see the argument against Manny in that regard.
I can also look at Burress, who is one of the best WRs in team history and who was the difference maker that got them to and won it all for them last season. But his bad boy egomaniacal ways sabotaged the Jints this season and were really the main reason they didn’t win it all again this season. With Burress, they were the best. Without him, they were just another team.
Manny is like Burress. With Manny, the Braves could really win it all this season. Of course, he could also turn around and sabotage the next season like Burress did with his selfishness. Without Manny in either season though, they don’t truly have a shot at winning it all because they don’t have the difference maker.
Latrell Sprewell beat his coach. My Knicks took advantage of that situation the next season and he carried them to the NBA Finals. Spree of course, being who he was, became a cancerous nightmare in later seasons for the Knicks. As a fan, however, I wouldn’t trade away where Spree took us in 99 just like I wouldn’t trade away where Burress took us last season even after what he did this season. I love Spree and Burress for what they did in those two seasons for my teams even if I’m angry at them for what they did to my teams in later seasons.
I feel the same way about Manny. If we wanted to win it all, we’d roll the dice on an iffy dude like the Giants and Knicks did with Burress and Spree and just take the really bad with the really good that comes with the likes of him.
I’d rather the argument be about (1) whether or not the Braves have the guts to risk winning it all and (2) whether or not they have the money to get him. They claim they ain’t got the funds, so we should just argue about how true that is and not argue about all of this other holier than thou b.s.
By Billy Walsh
February 6, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this
You are going to trade for a guy who hit 219 last year? Why on earth would you want him for three years? Andruw Jones put up better numbers in his final year in Atanta then Swisher did last year. Wouldnt you rather have Abreu for 2 years? Swisher is too inconsistent to gamble on a three year contract. I would take 20 hr 100 rbi 100 runs scored and a 300 batting average over Swisher anyday.
By Steve McP
February 6, 2009 9:08 PM | Link to this
Just read the article on the Braves site about the Glavine offer. DOes not sound as though it is a serious offer, probably made just because Wren said he would if Glavine could pitch. Low ball basic with no incentives, surprising that latter part, I had expected that any offer would have been along the lines of the offer to Smoltz, with the opportunity to get paid on the basis of performance - clearly Wren does not want Glavine, probably feeling the money that is left would be better spent on a bat.
By Bubdylan
February 6, 2009 9:21 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I can’t use that formula - can’t come down on this person when I don’t come down similarly on every other person with a similar offense - to filter every gut feeling I have against somebody. That’s relativism. You’re right in that it’s a dynamic you have to keep in front of you, but it doesn’t work well as a maxim. It’s that sort of thinking that ends up letting a child molester off with a 6 month sentence because a worse one got only 8 months last year.
Every indictment of a bad person isn’t given with a holier than thou attitude. Maybe mine was, I don’t know. It’s hard for most of us to see how we’re coming off. But a responsible citizen can’t be so guarded against hypocrisy and judgment that he tip-toes around every possible accusation of it. You seem to be making the argument that we should drop the Ethics Class and keep the discussion to how he’d effect wins and losses, i.e. distractions, money, etc. But, hell, Braveheart, that’s just not the kind of baseball fan I am. Sure it’s tricky waters to bring in the moral factor with a sport that’s plenty famous for its dark side. And maybe I don’t navigate those waters perfectly, or even very well.
But here I stand. To me, Cox’s deal isn’t as bad as Manny’s. I’m over Cox, who seems mostly to behave well. I don’t want Manny, who seems mostly to behave badly. That’s the best I can do.
By AR Brave
February 6, 2009 9:23 PM | Link to this
Great move on Wren’s part. Offering glavine a contract at 1-2 mil which gives us a cheap 5th LHP or gets him out of the way since we have so many others waiting to fill the 5th spot. It’s a win win situation either way. Glavine has left us before, so we will see what he does this time and I will be happy with either outcome. Now we can focus on ohman and the bat.
By Random
February 6, 2009 9:29 PM | Link to this
flange1, Bubdylan, Wayne in Utah —
I do not condone or excuse Ramirez’ behavior in that incident.
However, unlike (apparently) y’all, I do not assume intent on his part. There’s a big difference in “pushing someone” and them falling, “pushing someone down” and (a la Shaughnessy) “flattening someone”. The latter two contain elements of intent, which is absent in the original reports.
I also do not know what words were exchanged, who initiated the contact, what their previous relationship was, what previous disagreements they may or may not have had, why Ramirez wanted the tickets, why he had not asked earlier, etc, etc, etc.
I just don’t know, and have no reason to make assumptions to fit the incident into any preconception I have of Ramirez, unlike many others that definitely do have axes to grind.
Sometimes people believe what they want to believe only because they want to, regardless of the lack of evidence (or even in the face of contradictory evidence). (Another example of how religion makes us dumber.)
For example, “Manny quit on his team” — I have seen no clear evidence to support that charge, and have seen plenty of evidence that argues against it.
Unless I’ve missed something, Bubdylan for one believes it because he wants to believe it — no other reason is evident to me.
PS: Wayne in Utah: Or perhaps “Crusading EveryManny Apologist”.
8-)
PPS: Bubdylan, whence ($10?) the insights that allow you to ($7.50?) declaim Ramirez thus ($5?): “his everyday ways of thinking, fueled by countless selfish decisions that have left him morally sloppy”? Do you know him personally? Ever met him? Been to one of his games? Just wondering.
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 9:29 PM | Link to this
I guess we are going to see if TG really wants to finish his career in Atlanta, if the story is true.
By cvbraves
February 6, 2009 9:32 PM | Link to this
Glad the Braves made Glavine an offer and after last year, I’d say a generous offer.
But then, I’d say the same about the offer to Smoltz. Perhaps, a little too generous.
Considering age, arm injury (in Smoltz’ case, 8 injuries or was it 9?), economics, young arms waiting in line for a shot at the #5 spot, knowing that the Braves need a power-hitting outfielder and are running low on funds…Generous, Indeed!
Love both those guys and always will…wish them well and hope they both win 20 games and share the Cy Young. But, life, business, and the real world are what they are.
By Woah
February 6, 2009 9:34 PM | Link to this
I was at the Vortex Bar & Grill and got this burger, I forgot its name, but it was a half a pound of beef, cheese, two fried eggs, five or six pieces of bacon all between two grilled cheese sandwiches. Ate it all; it was awesome.
By Random
February 6, 2009 9:40 PM | Link to this
DOB: “OK, Random. You win. Everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.”
YESSS!!!
That’s all I was sayin.
*(Woo-hoo!)
By Mike
February 6, 2009 9:43 PM | Link to this
I get the feeling that the money we had left did not include money we set aside that we offered Ohman. Maybe I am wrong, but we made an offer to Glavine (will get to that later), and we are still trying to get an OF bat, probably by trade, yet we havent pulled the offer to Ohman.
To explain, lets say we had 8 mill left and we offered Ohman 2-3 mill (just a guess) and Glavine 1-2 mill, that leaves about 3-4 mill left. I just would think that they would want to leave at least 5-6 mill to get the bat (I still would rather us give it a shot with our 5-6 mill left and offer Abreu a 1-2 yr deal and see if he takes it, as apposed to paying that much + prospects for Nady/Swisher). Maybe I am incorrect, buts its just my guess.
As far as Glavine goes…I would think if he really preferred Atlanta, he would take the 1-2 mill. I wouldn’t guess he has a need for lots of money (maybe I am wrong). And I would hope he wouldn’t consider the offer a slap in the face, because he’s gotta know that we only have so much left and that we need the OF bat. I would think he would want us to get the OF bat to help us win. So if it were me, I would take it…But then again, I’m broke and would kill to be paid 1-2 mill to play major league ball with the Braves.
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 9:47 PM | Link to this
Just thought some might be interested in reading this from Mark Bradley a couple of years back:
He (Bobby)refuses to discuss the 1995 incident that ended with him being arrested and charged with simple battery. Pam Cox had called 911 during an argument, claiming that her husband had pulled her hair. The two underwent counseling. The charge was subsequently dropped. “We have one argument in 25 years of marriage and it gets in the paper,” Pam Cox says. “I’m not proud of it, but we’ve worked hard to put our marriage back together. I tell the children, ‘It’s not a mistake if you make it a learning experience.’ “
Now, I have not been a resident of the Bobby Cox household at any point in my life, so I can’t really speak of the incident, but paraphrasing Pam Cox’ they have worked things out.
To hear some of you on the blog, you would think he is the earlier version of Pacman Jones.
Let’s try to keep things in perspective. Manny apologized for shoving the guy over the tickets. when has he ever apologized for laying down on his team in Boston?
Let’s keep our manager, and skip on the quitter.
By Jim Robinson
February 6, 2009 9:58 PM | Link to this
“Woo-hoo!”
KNOCK IT OFF!!!
By Cherokee
February 6, 2009 9:58 PM | Link to this
Than platoon Gregor Blanco and Jordan Schafer in CF in lefty righty situations Joe
why would you platoon two lefties in center?
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 9:59 PM | Link to this
Woah
Whoa Nellie!!!
Random Man, is that all you needed to hear to make you happy??? Geez, we could have accommodated you a LONG time ago!
:-)
All my evidence for Manny quitting on his team is hearsay, but I think if it were not true, many of his teammates on the Bosox would have stood up and defended him, don’t you think.
Yes, and Barry Bonds never knowingly did steroids or other PED’s.
What about them Jazz last night on national TV, kickin the Maverick’s butts? But, I guess most of you folks were well tucked in by the time it got fun in the 3rd quarter. What would my boys look like without the following missed games (out of 49 played) Boozer 37 games and counting, D-Will 14 games, Okur 8 games, Millsap 5 games, AK 11 games and counting, Harpring-the linebacker 14 games, and another dozen or more by the lesser contributing players. A total of over 100 games missed so far this season.
Sounds like the 2008 Braves!
By Bubdylan
February 6, 2009 10:03 PM | Link to this
Random, the believing-what-you-want-to-believe goes both ways, ya know. I do try to guard against it. I didn’t want to dislike Manny. Liked him fine for a while. As intuitive as you are, you must have figured out that I usually err to the opposite extreme, when it comes to giving people the benefit of the doubt.
I have only the same evidence as most everyone else. The news reports plus what I see of Manny on television. Enough to convict him in court? No. Enough to want him to stay off my favorite baseball team? Sure. Add to this the opinion of DOB, who doesn’t seem to make a lot of hasty character judgments, and who isn’t prone to ride any moral high horse, either, and I feel alright about my stance.
The last part of your post lost me, and I’m calling it a day. I really don’t have the stamina for a long blog battle. Not trying to cop out. Perhaps later.
By I'm Stunned
February 6, 2009 10:08 PM | Link to this
Rumor has it that Tim Redding is Coach’s sisters’ kid Wayne
I heard he was coach’s boyfriend. Whata putz.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 10:18 PM | Link to this
Dear Tom:
I heard about the offer they made you. I would say it spells out exactly how the front office feels about your value to the team. I guess the time has come to explore some other avenues. I hope you have enough respect for yourself as a professional, not to mention future HOF, to politely decline. I understand that there are some other organizations out there who my value an accomplished pitcher with your knowledge and history. Perhaps the Marlins, a short drive down the road, with a young developeing staff might appreciate your stabilizing influence. Even the Nationals, would be in Atlanta enough for you to keep contact, and who knows even throw a few gems against your old friends. I’m sure you’ll land on your feet somewhere. I wish it could be with the successful franchise you helped to build, working with that new management team, whose jobs you probably helped create. I know I’ll cringe every time I see that legendary Left handed change up fool another batter. I hope you still feel you’ll always be a Brave. Just remember; they can’t afford you and if they could I’m certain they would lay out the red carpet for you, as they have for so many others with half your stature! Keep in touch and I’ll be watching you in October after the Brave’s season is done.
Yours truly,
Most of the Braves Fans
By nolie
February 6, 2009 10:24 PM | Link to this
I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth N8
you need to quit doing that all the time N8. It’s not healthy and people will think you’re bulimic
By Wayne in Utah
February 6, 2009 10:27 PM | Link to this
If TG leaving means we expedite the progress of Hanson, Morton, Reyes, etc. then I am all for it.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 10:30 PM | Link to this
Wayne (9:59)
Yup. All I know about Manny is what I read, but as you say when none of his former teammates contradict what’s reported in the press, then it has some credibility.
Besides, aside from the A’s, the Red Sox may be the most faithful advocates of statistical analysis in the majors, even having Bill James on the payroll since 2003. If any team would be willing to put statistical performance above intangibles like chemistry, the Sox would be your guys.
And still they gave him to the Dodgers and paid his salary.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 6, 2009 10:32 PM | Link to this
Canadianbrave,
Not so fast about watching Glavine in October. He might sign with the Nats.
By Random
February 6, 2009 10:34 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan — no “blog battle”; I’m fine with your response.
NBD.
(Anyway, we could already tell you were delirious, by the following: “DOB … doesn’t seem to make a lot of hasty character judgments, and … isn’t prone to ride any moral high horse, either.” Holy siht, man, where have you been?!?!?)
By Steve from OH
February 6, 2009 10:57 PM | Link to this
nolie, I thought he was talking about the Tigers games. I misread it, not you.
By Tomas
February 6, 2009 11:01 PM | Link to this
I agree with Frank Wren 100%. 1-2 million for a 42 year old pitcher who just had a season cut short due to injury, and finished with an ERA over five. And they don’t even need him, they already have 5 players competing for that 5th spot in the rotation. Out of respect they should have made an offer, and they did. Glavine is free to look elsewhere by a guarantee you he won’t get the guarantee’d 3 million + incentives to make it 6 million. The Nats just signed Odalis Perez, and they have a lot of pitchers already. In the current market, I doubt he would find a better offer than Atlanta’s, that’s the sad truth.
By nolie
February 6, 2009 11:07 PM | Link to this
I think I already pointed that out somewhere way up there ! Canadian
yes you did. however I comment when I read something so there is little chance that I will know that you changed it sometime in the future. It’s true that I’m omniscient but unfortunately not prescient. ;-)
By Moby Grape
February 6, 2009 11:11 PM | Link to this
While you’re likely sick of hearing about it Old Donk, Areopagus
you’re right I’m tired of it. Shame you didn’t change your name to something simple…like Gone Baby Gone. I hope you aren’t under the impression that those posts are funny or witty.
By nolie
February 6, 2009 11:27 PM | Link to this
Canadian
no need to apologize dude I was just kidding around, hence the universally-hated-on-this-board smiley face. Just kidding in my second reply just above too.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:30 PM | Link to this
Why do I get this feeling the Braves want Bobby Cox to retire as soon as possible!!
By nolie
February 6, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this
Coach pitching wins are like RBI, totally necessary for a team but because of the many variable involved they aren’t very good stats by which to judge a single player’s performance FWIW.
By Efrim
February 6, 2009 11:33 PM | Link to this
Saw someone mention Luke Scott earlier. He would make a lot of sense as a platoon mate for Diaz. Scott can hit righties pretty well, but has trouble against LHP.
As far as Swisher goes, I hope the Braves can come to an agreement with the Yanks. I like Swisher. Not a star….or doesn’t appear to be at least. But a solid piece that is under control through 2011. Obviously, you’d like to think that he can rebound and be worth the 9 million that he is owed in 2011. But he is owed around 12 million the next two seasons and would be a solid addition. Although if the price includes Jeff Locke or Cole Rohrbough, I’ll pass. Gorkys Hernandez? Probably be okay with that. Gotta trade the guy at some point, if you think Jordan Schafer is the center fielder of the future. Both players value lies within their ability to play CF well. I know the Yanks already have Austin Jackson as their CF of the future, but maybe they will just look to strengthen the farm with this move. Not focus on a particular need in the system. We’ll see.
By mb
February 6, 2009 11:33 PM | Link to this
I think Wren made a basic offer to Glavine to save face with the fans and move on to the next issue. Wren obviously doesn’t want to spend a lot of money on Glavine and if Glavine wants to pitch in Atlanta, looks like he will do it with a home town discount.
Wren must figure Glavine is not going to start a significant amount of games and probably won’t be anymore effect than he was last year. So, why offer Glavine a bunch of incentives he can’t earn. It will be nice to get this issue off the table and on to more important concerns, The Braves offense.
Another everyday player for Left Field would be nice. Take your pick, Abreu, Swisher, Nady, Ludwick, Ankiel, Dunn or what about Manny. I don’t think we can afford Manny, cross him off. Can the Braves afford Abreu, maybe. Nady and Ankiel are both in the last years of their contracts, Boras is the agent, so they become free agents next year, plus we have to trade players to get them, pass. Dunn is poor defensively, Braves aren’t showing any interest for Dunn. Ludwick might be a good fit, depending on who we have to trade? Not sure St Louis still wants K.J. Swisher I believe is the best fit. We will have to trade some players to get him. If you look at the trade between NYY and CHW, the Yankees gave up Wilson Betemit, who was a good utility player for the Yankees, and two pitching prospects, Jeffrey Marquez and Jhonny Nunez. CHW gave up Swisher and pitching prospect Kaneoka Texeria. Jeffrey Marquez is 25 years old and still pitching in the minors with so-so numbers, not exactly a strong prospect. The other 2 pitching prospects don’t show any information, so not much to go on, probably some scout told them how great they will be some day. The point of this exercise was to see what would it take to trade for Swisher? The Yankees have enough outfielders without him. We might trade a utility player, like Prado, Johnson or Infanta and a lower tier prospect, meaning not one of our top 5? Just my guess, judging from the previous Swisher deal. I do like the fact Swisher can play first base and all outfield positions and he is under contract for 3 years.
Hope the Braves make a wise decision.
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:37 PM | Link to this
Nolie
Its okay no offence taken!!
By Canadianbrave
February 6, 2009 11:49 PM | Link to this
I can hear parents all over the world now. Don’t worry kids you can pick a favorite player. Just remember, he’s only on the team until he starts to cost them some money. Then he’ll be going to New York, Los Angeles or Chicago. I doubt that American baseball in its present form will last through another generation. Son its a business…no a game…no a sport…well what is it Dad? Imagine how the Pirate fans feel!!!
By SCRusty
February 7, 2009 12:05 AM | Link to this
For all you 1960’s rock & rollers—I heard on the radio today that Dewey Martin, drummer of the Buffalo Springfield, passed away. What a great but short lived band they were—Neil Young,Stephen Stills, Ritchie Furay, Bruce Palmer, Dewey Martin and late arrival Jim Messina (who replaced Palmer when he was deported back to Canada for pulling a Michael Phelps). That was the reunion I had always hoped would occur. But alas, that will peobably never happen. Palmer died about a year ago. And now, back to baseball!
By Hammy the Brave
February 7, 2009 12:10 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Does FW not have any interest in Ludwick of STL., or is he not available? Couldn’t they get him for possibly Jorge Campillo, Matt Diaz, etc. Then both teams would be taking a chance on what they’d receive in the trade.
Also, couldn’t FW look into trading K. Johnson, Brandon Jones, etc. to the Giants for Jonathon Sanchez(I think he’s a hard throwing lefty who’s about to blossom) and maybe Randy Winn(depending on salary) or Emmanual Burris(2B-SS prospect with speed)?
Hammy the Brave
By richbrave
February 7, 2009 12:31 AM | Link to this
Well DAVE, “THE READER” is the pick of the litter in my book. Wow, I thought REVOLUTIONARY ROAD was a grabber. This movie wasn’t just another flick. This one makes space on my shealf.
By richbrave
February 7, 2009 12:39 AM | Link to this
BEAR:
So that’s a no to signing OHMAN I guess. In case you haven’t noticed, WIL’s not jumping all over the current stale offer on the table. Let him shop, but beat the best offer. I want him happy when he hits the mound for us in the eighth.
By uga-brave
February 7, 2009 12:41 AM | Link to this
bubdylan,
your 9:21 post confirms it. dude you got a certain talent.
very well written. dont care if you agree or disagree. well written.
By spotts
February 7, 2009 12:47 AM | Link to this
I just found another teacher in the school I work at taught Brian McCann in middle school. She has an autographed 8th grade basketball picture of him in her room. He was #32 and a little skinny.
By uga-brave
February 7, 2009 12:57 AM | Link to this
well the current so called economic downturn finally hit home.
saw three guys i worked with for close to ten years get laid off today.
nothing worse then closed door meetings on friday at 4:oo p.m.
10 years, and thank you for your time. bad day.
By uga-brave
February 7, 2009 1:10 AM | Link to this
let me expound on my last post. barney frank and
charles schumer need to be on the hook.
this was on their watch. then again barney was probably bouncing a, well the rest would of been deleted.
i worked with these guys 10 plus years, no heads up, barely a severance.
no joy in mudville tonight.
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 1:23 AM | Link to this
Richbrave: I wasn’t exaggerating about The Reader, was I? Remarkably powerful movie. Kate Winslet solidified herself as an actress for the ages with that performance. That scene in the prison when he comes to visit her finally, and then walks away without showing her any affection … her body language in that scene was just something you can’t describe. The life left her there, for all intents. You could see her go limp a moment. …
On the other end of the entertainment spectrum, we watched Lisa Lampanelli’s HBO standup comedy special tonight. She is the most politically incorrect performer alive. Her act makes Louis CK or, going back a couple decades, Dice Clay, look positively quaint by comparison. And she’s hilarious.
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 1:26 AM | Link to this
Woah, regarding the Vortex burger you ate (9:34 p.m. comment). Now you need to step up and tackle the famous Ghetto Burger at Ann’s Snack Shack on Memorial Drive. If your arteries aren’t completely blocked from the Vortex burger, they will be after you’ve had the Ghetto Burger.
By Wayne in Utah
February 7, 2009 1:28 AM | Link to this
uga I am feeling for you man. It is no fun going through that experience. In 1990, after 10.5 years with my company, I was sent packing with a 3 month severance. Before it was all over (you might remember there was a recession going on then), I had to live off my 401K for the next year, and then sell my house so I could go back to grad school to have something to show for that time frame. Finally got back to decent work in mid 1992. Lost it all.
Funny fact (it wasn’t funny at the time). I paid more in taxes in 1990 and 1991 than I made in salary due to cashing in the 401K one year, and selling the house the next!
Hope your friends have better luck….
By uga-brave
February 7, 2009 2:31 AM | Link to this
wayne,
it was a tough day. there are so many drinks you can buy them.
these were guys that i worked with, they have childern.
really bad day.
these are guys that were educated at michican, cornell,and princeton.
it was lifo, last in first out. really bad day.
really good friends i lost today.
but then again that senate led by barney, and charles, those rock stars that lead the banking division have done a great job.
baaaa i am bawneey fwank, i have a lisp. and i think i am a super genious.
barney frank.
By nolie
February 7, 2009 3:31 AM | Link to this
UGA
my condolences to your friends. I hope it doesn’t get too bad for them B4 they can bounce back. Hard Times in the Land of Plenty, bro.
By TheAntiMe
February 7, 2009 4:28 AM | Link to this
And just what do you want to bet that Red Sox Nation is not exactly shedding any tears over Manny Ramirez not being able to get a Wall Street CEO type of multi-year contract, so far this offseason?
After he apparently followed the advice of Scott Boras and lamed-out on the Red Sox (“It’s my left knee, no, I mean it’s my right knee, wait, it’s both knees”), I would not give him more than 1 year at $25 million or 2 years at $20 million per year.
If he pulled any crap in either of the 2 years then he would be traded at the non-waiver trade deadline in July. Commissioner Bud would possibly even extend the deadline by whatever, to get the deal done, like he did in 2008 when Manny was traded to the Dodgers.
By proeye
February 7, 2009 6:09 AM | Link to this
Follow up on an earlier post…
Hey, let’s have a little more pride in America people (for those who are Americans that is)…
The Canadian dollar is currently worth 0.82 of the American dollar (in other words, the American dollar is worth about 1.23 times the Canadian dollar). Look it up on Yahoo! Finance. (2/6/2008)
By Random
February 7, 2009 6:09 AM | Link to this
spotts: “Did anyone actually read nolie’s, Aristotle’s, or Random’s enormous posts?””
I just now went back and read “Aristotle“‘s first “comment”.
Let me say right here and now, for once and for all, that I deeply resent my inclusion in any comparison that includes his masturbatory and self-congratulatory, pretentious and self-indulgent forays into inane and arcane malapropisms.
So to speak.
By TheAntiMe
February 7, 2009 6:46 AM | Link to this
lol - I dedicate this next song (a really great tune, by the way) to you, proeye…
“In America” by The Charlie Daniels Band
Well the eagle’s been flying slow and the flag’s been flying low And a lot of people are saying that America’s fixing to fall But speaking just for me and some people from Tennessee We got a thing or two to tell you all This lady may have stumbled but she ain’t never fell And if the Russians don’t believe that they can all go straight to hell We’re gonna put her feet back on the path of righteousness And then God bless America again
And you never did think that it ever would happen again In America, did you? You never did think that we’d ever get together again Well we damn sure fooled you We’re walking real proud and we’re talking real loud again in America You never did think that it ever would happen again
From the sound up in Long Island out to San Francisco Bay And ev’ry thing that’s in between them is our home And we may have done a little bit of fighting amongst ourselves But you outside people best leave us alone Cause we’ll all stick together and you can take that to the bank That’s the cowboys and the hippies and the rebels and the yanks You just go and lay your head on a Pittsburgh Steeler fan And I think you’re gonna finally understand
And you never did think that it ever would happen again In America, did you? You never did think that we’d ever get together again Well we damn sure fooled you We’re walking real proud and we’re talking real loud again in America You never did think that it ever would happen again
By Random
February 7, 2009 6:52 AM | Link to this
Poor Frank Wren.
I’m sure that if he’d had his druthers, he’d rather have kept Smoltz than Glavine, assuming (1) it had come down to an either/or between those two and (b) they each were judged to have adequately recovered from their respective surgeries.
(I mean consider — a year ago, before any question of injury-surgery was forced upon us, who would you have kept if you HAD to choose between the two?)
But Wren was wrong-footed by the Red Sox (with or without Smoltz’ complicity), did not adjust (imo) appropriately, and has now painted himself into an even stickier corner with Glavine.
I figure TG’s as good as gone — just guessin.
I don’t know yet whether I think it’d be good or not for Wren to pass on Glavine — on the one hand, I feel confident that Smoltz will outperform Glavine in 2009, and Wren would really look like And Idiot for letting the “wrong” one go.
On the other hand, I really don’t see how keeping Glavine would “block” anyone. All the up and coming pitchers that denizens have been touting to occupy the 5th SP position have minor league options — the Braves would not be losing a one of them by going with Glavine out of ST and seeing how it goes from there.
And I do think that Glavine can still contribute positively to the Braves (albeit not as much as would Smoltz have.)
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 7:07 AM | Link to this
Ode to the old guys
Has anybody here seen my good friend Johnny. Can you tell me where he’s gone? He threw alot of pitches too bad the good can’t stay young. I just look around and he’s gone!
Has anybody here seen my good friend Greg? Can you tell me why he went? Best pitcher of our generation, but didn’t fit in the budget! I just look around and he’s gone!
Has anybody here seen my good friend Tommy! Can you tell me where he’s gone! We’ll throw him a tidbit and maybe he’ll stay home! I just look around and he’s gone!
Didn’t you love the teams that they threw for! Didn’t they put the fans back in the stands..ohohoh Wren you fool! Some day your gonna be wanting any pitcher here come and pitch for Bobby. I’ll just look around and he’s gone!
By ncscoots
February 7, 2009 7:20 AM | Link to this
Seems to me that the Braves are unlikely to make any moves at all until the arbitration hearings are held. Ludwick and Ankiel (two blog favorites) haven’t come to terms yet, and there may be other players in which the Braves have interest who are in the same position. Plus, the Braves still have two of their own to settle.
Frankly, I’m starting to lean more to the Diaz/Jones platoon in LF, even as iffy as the whole OF situation seems in that scenario. Unless the Braves get a real difference-maker out there (and I don’t consider guys such as Nady or Swisher in that category), most of the guys floated don’t seem to me to be that much of an upgrade over the current options. Diaz/Jones doesn’t solve the cleanup problem, but I don’t see Nady/Swisher/Ludwick/Ankiel doing that either.
Who knows? There doesn’t seem to be a good solution out there (that bloggers have spotted, anyway). Either Wren has something cooking under the radar, or the Braves believe Diaz can return to form and a healthy Jones can crank 15 HR. That’s my take, anyway.
By William
February 7, 2009 7:23 AM | Link to this
I think it would be a mistake to sign Glavine. Frankly, I’m surprised that it’s such a hot topic. The guy is 42 yrs old and coming of major arm surgery. Trust me, your body does not become kinder to you as you get older. Agreed, he can teach the young guys and be a veteran leader, but 3 mill is a lot to pay for “veteran leadership!!” Glavine has made it clear he wants to stay in Atlanta. Sign him as a coach and quit living in the past. Glavine is a hall of famer, but his pitching days are over!
By fengibby
February 7, 2009 7:47 AM | Link to this
I think one of the reason I prefer Swisher to some of the other trade canidates availble which have been linked to the braves is his ability to play 1st. No one knows if Kotchman is going to be successful this year and having a guy like Swisher able to fill in at 1st could save the braves. Also, if one of the young guys in our OF mix steps up the braves could then still get them playing time by sliding Swisher to 1st once or twice a week.
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 7:58 AM | Link to this
proeye
Have a peanut!
By dap01
February 7, 2009 8:03 AM | Link to this
Don’t trade for average. Average will get you no where.
By Roach
February 7, 2009 8:10 AM | Link to this
Yea dont trade for a below average player in swisher when you can sign an above average player in abreu.
By Doug
February 7, 2009 8:26 AM | Link to this
Barney Frank and Charles Schumer need to be on the hook for the economic downturn? Where have you been the past eight years? If you want to blame someone, point your finger—you know which one—to Crawford, Texas. Dubya is enjoying the good life, counting his oil money. No economic downturn there.
By Billy
February 7, 2009 8:28 AM | Link to this
On the Glavine subject I truly believe his injury occurred just before his last three starts in 2007 for the Mets. Mets fans were astonished and perplexed at his sudden nose-dive. In 2007 he had a really good year for the Mets, until those last three games which the results were inconsistent with the rest of his starts.
I have read many times where pitchers say they felt no pain in their pitching arm prior to when told they would need surgery. I am going to surmise he had a torn flexor tendon that partially healed during the off season and he redamaged it to the point he required surgey after a few starts upon pitching to the Braves 6 months after leaving the Mets. Is 5 months enough time for a partial torn flexor to heal itself with only rest?
He had unexplained loss of whatever velocity he had. He should regain that and return to the velocity he once had when he was very effective. I am quite sure he has not suffered from pitching amnesia, so if he is fixed I see no reason he can’t be as effective as Jamie Moyer, who has never been the pitcher Glavine is, but relies on the same style of pitching.
Both Glavine and Moyer rely on off speed stuff and location. Remember, Glavine did toss 200 innings in 2007, his last full season. Could he repeat that now that he is repaired? Maybe, but he will need the starts in order to get there.
KK was a part of a six-man rotation and he may be better suited for the 5th spot in the rotation with his maiden, introductory season getting acquainted with American hitters and adjusting to baseball and the States as a whole..
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 8:43 AM | Link to this
If Glavine is as greedy as most of the bloggers on this site seem to think he is, then he would be a fool to sign with the Braves when a mediocre pitcher like Wolf gets 5Mil plus incentives with the Dodgers
By Jim
February 7, 2009 9:22 AM | Link to this
Doesn’t anyone read the players’ stats?
B. Jones v. RHP is way below what Josh Anderson has done against RHP. More power, BA + OPS and it is not even close. B. Jones does not hit RHP as well as Diaz in his career.
To those who prefer Swisher because Kotchman might not be as good, please look at AL stats for both the last couple of years and tell me why you think that way. Kotchman had a bad August getting use to NL pitching and worrying about his mother. But his September was excellent, like KJs. If Kotchman goes bad, there will be a whole lot of things with this team that go bad before that.
Nady is the extra OF they need; question is how much talent they want to give up. Prado might be able to play every day for Yankees, even though he won’t for B’s, so I suspect negotiation should be focusing on how much Yankees need Prado and not how much B’s need Nady. If I were FW, I might give Yankees a pitcher between 15-20 on our depth chart, maybe even two pitchers. Yankees need pitching prospects. If they want Prado, with a longer contract than Nady, they would have to give something back in addition to Nady.
By McFann O –[zzz] (Braves Fann For Life)
February 7, 2009 9:29 AM | Link to this
spotts @ 12:47—
That’s neat!
(Sorry, BMac…know how you feel about that word. ; ) )
By jay blaisdell
February 7, 2009 9:44 AM | Link to this
It’s time the GM hitched his pants up like a big boy and signed a stick. They’re out there: Dunn, Abreu, ( NOT Manny). Or via trade ( Nady, NOT Swisher ). Without another bat, this is going to be a pretty anemic lineup, especially on days (weeks?) when The Chippah is on the DL with a nurse applying cold compresses to his head. And no more Glavine talk. Yesterday’s gone.
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 9:48 AM | Link to this
fengibby, nice point (7:47 a.m.) about Swisher being able to play first. Not necessarily if Kotchman “fails” (he is what he is, has been in the majors long enough to give us a good gauge of what to expect) but just to spell Kotchman occasionally or in case of injury that might keep him out a week or two (remember what happened last year when Norton had to play there? Not good. And they’d rather not have Prado play the position every day for any stretch.)
By Dadgum
February 7, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this
Wren gave Glavine a very reasonable offer. Frankly it is more than I would have given. Not sure I would have offered up a major league contract to somebody that has no chance of making the team. Nevertheless, Glavine would be a fool not to take it if indeed it is as reported. He will not get more guaranteed money elsewhere and would have a hard time meeting any incentives. This way he can retire in Dark Star with the Braves as opposed to Sarasota with the Reds or whomever.
I will agree with all posters that say the Braves are pretty much set in LF. Options are so numerous. Plenty of young talent to play there. Blanco, Anderson, Diaz. Don’t forget Kelly can play there but I think the Braves are resigned to him playing 2nd base and leaving Prado as their utility guy.
If the Braves are going to take a flyer on Glavine it makes zero sense not to take a flyer on Andruw for the same amount. I know. I know. Just saying why not. Maybe he does a 180. Maybe.
Sign Andruw, give Ohman an extra million (we need teh lefty in the pen), and forget about the high price veterans out there like Dunn and Abreu. The Braves have their answers in LF and they are already on the team. Bring on the young guys. Their time is now.
Rock on…..
By Lew
February 7, 2009 9:55 AM | Link to this
Fengibby-If the Braves trade for Swisher, it won’t be to take over for Kotchman, other than to fill on on a day or two when Casey needs a day off. For one thing, Kotchman is an excellent defensive first baseman. Swisher? Not so much.
By J.D.
February 7, 2009 10:42 AM | Link to this
ARod tested positive for 2 steroids in 2003 ….http://www.si.com
By richbrave
February 7, 2009 10:47 AM | Link to this
DAVE:
OMG, a truly masterful performance by WINSLET. If she doesn’t win BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS there is no justice in this world, and she was marvelous in REVOLUTIONARY ROAD, but this performance was just towering. I hardly recognized her. She was absolutely transformed in this role. I see a sympathetic rendering of all holocaust victims is not yet possible from the controlling power’s hue and cry in HOLLYWOOD and the AMERICAN film industry.
I just didn’t find the film offensive in any way. I leaned over to my wife during the presentation of the can to the daughter by FIENNES and whispered, “there should be another title to this movie, ‘CASUALTIES OF WAR’.” Of course, that’s too hackneyed and conveys too much of the plot to be acceptable. I see foreign film critics have been far more accepting of this unique examination of holocaust victims and GERMAN guilt.
By South Dakota Braves fan
February 7, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
Why is everyone down on Kotchman? He is young and going to continue to improve. Can’t wait to see what Wren does for left field. I think the offer for Glavine was fair. We have plenty of pitchers ready to go if he doesn’t accept. Can’t wait to get baseball going. At least it will feel warmer watching baseball on TV when it is 15 degrees outside in South Dakota! Just wish I could see more games. Go Bravos!
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 7, 2009 10:50 AM | Link to this
DOB I don’t know your angle here, maybe that he will be “solid”. However, I think Kotchman has alot of room for improvement, being he is only 25. I think he can easily post .300 20/90+ and be phenomenal with the glove this year……But maybe that is what he is??
What do you make of the Glavine offer?? Heyman says both sides will talk through the weekend..Any chance he’d take that?? I’m hoping Ohman and Glavine sign by Monday so they can zero in on LF.
By Random
February 7, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this
Thoughtful take on Glavine, Billy. Thanks.
Jim — Please lose the “B’s”.
It seems flip and disrespectful.
It’s what Faith Lehane called Buffy Summers.
By mbatl
February 7, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this
A Rod Tested Positive
By Roach
February 7, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this
J.D. where is it at on si???
By Efrim
February 7, 2009 10:56 AM | Link to this
ARod tested positive for steroids in 2003. Why is this released just now?
By Steve from OH
February 7, 2009 10:58 AM | Link to this
roach, right on the main page.
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 10:59 AM | Link to this
A-Rod steroid story — HUGE. Sports Illustrated gets the major scoop, and it’ll tarnish his career. To what degree remains to be seen…
Richbrave: Kate Winslet’s an Oscar nominee for BEST ACTRESS for The Reader, not best supporting actress (though she should’ve been nominated for supporting actress, too, for Revolutionary Road, and won both statues).
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
Dadgum: Glavine has “no chance” to make the team? Flatly wrong. If he’s in camp and healthy, he’s got a good chance of making the team.
By NC Braves fan
February 7, 2009 11:07 AM | Link to this
Is it possible we only have enough in our piggy bank to get 2 of the 3 we want….Glavine, Ohman, and a left field power hitting stud?
I thought Braves offered Glavine a $1 million contract….which seems so low he may just say the hell with baseball and just stay home with his family.
I’d be a lot more excited about the opening of camp if we had a new big bat outfielder…otherwise we’re gonna lose a lot of 4-2 and 6-3 games.
By blazerpunter
February 7, 2009 11:23 AM | Link to this
No offense to you DOB, but some of the people at the AJC are truely idiots!!
The lead headline on the AJC frontpage is of course the ARod steroid story. Where the idiocy comes in is that they have a huge picture of Derek Jeter as the picture for the headline.
Unbelievable.
Excited for baseball to right around the corner!! GO BRAVES……
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this
My wife told me about slumdog maybe falling out of favour with the academy because of the inappropriate use of child actors. Can anyone tell me about this?
By blazerpunter
February 7, 2009 11:26 AM | Link to this
At least they were smart enough to catch it, they just changed the picture to an actual ARod picture!! I agree that his legacy as being the Super baseball player will be tarnished.
GO BRAVES…………..
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this
If Glavine is truly healthy, he might be the best on the team!
By mb
February 7, 2009 11:42 AM | Link to this
I think Baseball has opened it’s own can of worms. I don’t blame them for wanting to keep performance enhancing drugs out of the sport. Also, if Bonds committed purgery then he needs to suffer the consequences.
But, if you read this report on “A-Rod” who is being targeted as the media high profile player out of the group of 104 players that tested positive. Almost 10% of all the players tested positive. I believe this to be the bigger story.
Think about it. 10% of all tested were doing some performance enhancing drug, to make them better at the game of baseball. Think about all the players who didn’t get the chance to play in the Big leagues, because they chose to play the sport clean. Think about the Baseball Hall of Fame votes going forward. Already, several record setting players are not being considered for the Baseball Hall of Fame, because they are associated with the steroid era.
If A-Rod did test positive and he breaks Bonds record of most home runs, does he get an asterisk too? Does the Hall need to create a steroid or asterisk room for these players? If 10% were really using and their name is not tied to any major story line and they are consider for the Hall, will this be wrong? Hard to say, seems a lot of players were doing steroids.
I think this story will make me sick. I really don’t like Bonds at all, almost a hate for the guy he is such a jerk, and I wanted a “Clean Player” to break his record.
I wonder if Ryan Howard or Fielder can do it. Here’s the math on these two players, Howard is 30 has 177 HR’s so far, he needs to average 58.5 over the next 10years to get to Bonds record. Fielder is 28, has 114 Hrs and needs to average 54 HRs over the next 12 years. I figured the averages up to age 40 for both players. I would guess if they get close they will play past 40 to beat the record.
Beat!
By THE BEAR
February 7, 2009 11:43 AM | Link to this
Canadianbrave, did you realize Atlanta is almost half way between Miami and Chicago? It is not a short drive from Atlanta to Miami. It is about 700 miles.
Now on to other subjects:
Manny is a scumbag. Had the story about his disgusting act against his team in Boston been false no one in their right minds could think Boston would have handed his contract over to the Dodgers and paid his full salary just to get him out of town. The man is a cancer. I don’t see any other teams clamoring for his “servives.” I wouldn’t have him on my team at any price. There are some things more important in life than winning it all. Granted winning is surely desirable but at what price? No Pacman, no Burress and no Manny. Anyone who signs any of them is stating clearly that character means nothing to them.
As for Bobby Cox and his wife, they got into a family squabble. He apparently pulled her hair. No one knows what provoked it. They settled it and that should be the end of it. Character is not involved in that situation, in my opinion.
As for Andruw, character is not his problem, ignorance is his problem. He is too stupid to accept coaching. It is that simple. And it will spell his demise.
Furcal’s problem hinges on character. He did it in Atlanta with his run ins with the law and he lied his way into getting a return contract with L.A. He made the deal with Wren and then double crossed him. He should be written off Wren’s books forever for that one.
Smoltz has an ego problem. He didn’t care about Atlanta’s problems. He wanted his money regardless of the three or four times he had been on the DL for long periods at full pay including last year at $14 million. And when Wren didn’t jump when Smoltz told him to jump Smoltz dumped Atlanta. He burned a lot of good will with that move but egotists don’t care about good will.
By Because It Matters
February 7, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
I thought politics weren’t allowed on this blog?Why is it TheAntiMe can post that jingoistic piece of propaganda and no one calls him out on it? Yet when someone, I forget who, and it’s been several times, dares to call out the blantant hard right bias of this blog people can’t wait to tell s/he to shut the heck up? If moderates and liberals can’t say things on here without being called out, then the same should go for people who post crap from the overtly racist Charlie Daniels. This is a baseball blog right?
By Salamander
February 7, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
Its not surprising to me that A-Rod tested positive. I think that 25-50 years from now it will become clear that at least 33% of players were on some sort of PED during the peak years of the steroid era.
Also, 25-50 years from now, I think it will be obvious that many teams (if not all) knew that some of their players were juicing, but home-runs sell tickets and so it was best to ignore the problem.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this
Canadianbrave
I understand you’re bummed about Glavine and Smoltz and Maddux no longer being Braves, but if you exclude Smoltz, this seems a little obsessive, don’t you think?
I mean, Maddux has changed teams, what, about 12 times since he left the Cubs for greener pastures in 1993.
And Glavine not only left the Braves for free agency, he signed with the hated rival Mets.
Loyalty works both ways, pal.
By Roach
February 7, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this
This is a HUGE story about Arod because I thought he was clean but furthermore he was on his way to being arguably the greatest player of all time.
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this
Afraud…… Aroid…….
Awanker…..
“Get into the groove boy”…
By Salamander
February 7, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this
*By Because It Matters *
Perhaps because its just a song so who cares. Skip the lyrics if they bother you. Not everyone who reads/posts on this blog has a “blatant hard right bias,” so I would be careful throwing blanket statements like that around.
By dap01
February 7, 2009 12:05 PM | Link to this
Because it Matters: God bless America is not hard right.
Get a life!
Go Braves
By N8
February 7, 2009 12:09 PM | Link to this
DOB
The scary thing is that SI is saying that there is 104 other players on that list. Who else is on it, is yet to be seen.
Yup. Bud Selig and his 17.5 million dollar salary. What a worthless POS that man is. To top it off, the Players Union is a frickin’ joke as well.
I’m of the belief that our goverment has better things to do than to go on a witch-hunt for preasent, past and future PED users. But man alive, would it be nice to see ALL of those who used, run through the ringer a bit.
Every day that passes, Jose Canseco looks more honest and truthful, while Selig and the superstars who wave their fingers at congress and reporters, look like jackazzes.
For crying out loud, can we get some TRUE MLB HEROES into the HOF, like Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson and Dave Parker??
IMO, ANYBODY who’s career started since 88 (or so), should be put on hold for HOF induction, until this mess is cleared up.
Selig needs to resign NOW and give his 17.5 million dollar salary to a charity. Perhaps an anti-doping project. Add to that, Donald Fehr should do the same. They are both a disgrace to MLB, and quite possibly, the human race.
I have SERIOUS doubts about whether ANYBODY in the past 20 years, is actually clean, and that is sad. Yes that includes Chipper, Javy, Klesko, Andruw, Galarraga, Giles, Sheffield, Rocker, Gant, Justice, perhaps even Smoltz. After all, dude has recovered from a LOT of surgeries that most would retire from.
Fair? Nope. But I’m sorry. I don’t trust any of them.
If I’m a guy that’s in the HOF and I was clean. I’m going out of my way to make sure nobody with a shred of doubt surrounding them, gets into the “select company” that I worked my azz off to get into. Guys like Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Hank Aaron, Cal Ripken (if he was clean in the 90’s), Tony Gwynn, etc… need to be vocal and LOUD about this.
Enough is enough.
Torre was right, I will now refer to him as A-Fraud.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 12:09 PM | Link to this
Salamander
There’s no way of knowing how many players were juicing back in the day because there’s plenty of reasons for players to not ‘fess up.
That said, yeah, I’m guessing a lot of guys were ingesting stuff they shouldn’t have.
Fully agree with DOB and others who say the ARod story’s a big deal. Sure, he got a lot bigger from his days in Seattle ‘til now. But his “performance” never spiked over that time — unlike Barroid, who had never hit 50 HR in a season and then jumped to what, 70 in his mid-30s?.
ARod just kept getting better and better. Maybe he figured out how to juice without drawing suspicion to his play.
The person who has to have mixed feelings about this is Henry Aaron. If the story about ARod is true, in the eyes of many (including me), Hammerin’ Hank will always be the home run king.
By spotts
February 7, 2009 12:12 PM | Link to this
I’ll take a picture of little Mac on Monday and put it on Flickr
It should also be noted that McCann’s basketball team won the 1998 Gwinnett County championships
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 12:16 PM | Link to this
* HOF during Steroid Era*
Dave OB - Maybe for the Hall they should just open ban anyone testing positive to anything and then adjust all other players numbers from say 1994-2007 donw by say 20-25% (power numbers) to normalize them and then compare them to other Hall members…. would that make sense… then we may get a more even process…
Of note - is the improvement in the quality of numbers of some players since the start of 2007 (Manny, Chipper, Mussina etc) and the dramatic collapse of so many so called stars (Pudge, Gagne, Hafner, Clemens, ANDRUW etc etc etc). Seems the naturals (not steroid abusers) stand out now as do many I have suspected for some time.
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this
N8 - on your list I DEFINITELY TRUST HOSS
After he did his knee as a rookie he has been consistently bugged by soft tissue injuries and other strains that STEROIDS would have helped prevent… very doubtful if he ever took as much as an aspirin….
By mbatl
February 7, 2009 12:19 PM | Link to this
“I’m of the belief that our goverment has better things to do than to go on a witch-hunt for preasent, past and future PED users.”
N8, I don’t think the govt is on a witch hunt for users. They’re trying to prosecute illegal traffickers and money-launderers like BALCO and related parties.
Bonds is not in trouble for using; he’s in trouble for lying to the feds about it as part of federal investigations into other parties. Same with Clemens.
The “list of 104” is old news… that’s been around for years. It’s just the “leak” of Arod’s name that is news now.
(otherwise, I agree with your rant completely!)
The entire era is tainted, not just ARod.
By N8
February 7, 2009 12:20 PM | Link to this
“I mean, Maddux has changed teams, what, about 12 times since he left the Cubs for greener pastures in 1993.” BravesFanInRockies
Really?
Maddux was drafted and developed by the Cubs, and pitched with them from 86-92.
At which point before the 93 season, he signed with the Braves. Whom he pitched for until 2003.
After being “burned” by Maddux accepting arbitration before the 2003 season, the Braves REFUSED to offer him arbitration again (if I remember correctly), essentially telling him to “go away”.
It was THEN that he chose to go BACK to the Cubs.
He pitched for the Cubs from 2004 to the trade deadling of 2006, when the Cubs TRADED HIM to the Dodgers.
After that season, he signed with the Padres. Pitching all of 2007 for them. The Padres then TRADED Maddux BACK to the Dodgers at the deadline in 2008.
The only times Maddux has CHOSEN to go anywhere else besides 93, was when the teams he was pitching for decided that they didn’t want him.
So, to correct you. He has changed teams 4 times since 1993. Twice his own choice, twice by trade.
Guess what. If the Braves had had any interest in keeping him, I’m guessing he’d still would have had a tomahawk the past 5 seasons.
God knows we could have used him the past 3 years.
Insurance asside, do you all realize that since he left the Braves, Maddux made 44 million dollars, while Mike Hampton (not all paid by the Braves), made 74 million dollars. Add to that, the 8 million the Braves paid for Glavine last year.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but looking back at our need for innings and healthy pitchers, Maddux should have NEVER been allowed to leave.
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this
The Bear
Im glad you straightened us all out about today’s topics. I feel re-adjusted. For a minute there some of us must have drifted off into thinking we had our own opinions about the comings and goings of the players past and present. I don’t know what we were thinking. My views feel so much more ordered now!
By rotty
February 7, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
DOB - Dunn can also spell Kotch at 1B and with more power than Swisher.
I don’t see trying to squeeze in Swisher when you you will have to trade prospects & take on a 3yr/22+mm contract one (I might add) he couldn’t get in today’s market.
A 1-2yr flier on Dunn or a 1yr on Abreu makes more sense. A few extra million is not going to bankrupt this franchise but a near zero power OF will sure help resurrect the 1 run loss streak.
Swisher is scrappy but he is not a big time HR guy and while he is a utility oriented player we have buckets of those already.
We need a starting power bat in LF that can hit clean up. Every thing else is gravy not a requirement.
By THE BEAR
February 7, 2009 12:23 PM | Link to this
Mark Kriegel of FOX writes a thorough expose of Manny and it goes back a few years.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9186012/On-the-Mark:-Clubs-are-scared-of-Manny
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 12:30 PM | Link to this
THE BEAR
Saw that post earlier today. Thanks for sharing.
By THE BEAR
February 7, 2009 12:31 PM | Link to this
Mark Kriegel of FOX writes a thorough expose of Manny and it goes back a few years.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9186012/On-the-Mark:-Clubs-are-scared-of-Manny
By N8
February 7, 2009 12:31 PM | Link to this
dogsbrekky
I agree with you (logically), and as a fan I definitely WANT to beleave that. My point is that the bottom line (no matter what logic and excuses you use), is that NONE of us know, and in the case of MOST players, we NEVER will know, unless they come out many years down the road and admit it.
The bottom line, is that I don’t trust anybody, and won’t. I’ve got my ideas of who I think used and who didn’t. Many are obvious (Brady Anderson, Luis Gonzalez, Brian Giles, Strawberry - late in his career - Sheffield, Bonds, Albert Belle). Many are not. I would have NEVER lumped Andy Pettitte in that group.
So you tell me. How do YOU know?
mbatl
I should have phrased that differently. I don’t think that the government HAS BEEN on a witch hunt so far. What I was saying, was that in a preface to stating I wish SOMEBODY would go ALL OUT after these guys, that I think the government has better things to do.
Since I don’t have the resources to pay the investigators to do so, I have to hope the governement (not that we actually have the resources), does it for me. If only I was the commissioner of baseball, THEN I’d have some money to spend on…. never mind.
By Doc Holiday
February 7, 2009 12:34 PM | Link to this
If Glavine is truly healthy, he might be the best on the team!
You mean the richmond braves?
By mbatl
February 7, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
If Glavine is truly healthy, he might be the best on the team!
Golfer?
By THE BEAR
February 7, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
Canadian Brave, I am delighted to be of service. I had noticed that you needed some help and I was certain I was the man to deliver. Next time perhaps you’ll look at a map before you make such a “drastic” error.
As for my opinions on various subjects I fail to see how they differ so much from what I see on this blog on an hourly basis. Surely you have posted opinions. OTOH, maybe all your ramblings are strictly fact. Sure, that’s the answer, they are all facts, no opinions allowed in your world.
By N8
February 7, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies
Maybe A-Fraud’s performance never “spiked” because he was always on them?
As for Bonds, half of what makes him “unique” is that he was on his way to the HOF before he started doubling his hat sizes every spring.
The thing to me about he HGH and what not, is that it’s not what it does to their ability to play the game. It’s what it does to their AVAILABILITY to play the game.
Imagine had Dale Murphy been able to play another 4 or 5 years (with healthy knees). Imagine what Andre Dawson would have been able to do, without having to go through 3 or 4 hours in the training room BEFORE each game just to play that day.
Arod, while never having a spike in numbers, has also never missed significant time due to injury. Is he a freak of nature, or is there a medical and scientific reason for that?
Why do you think so many relief pitchers are the ones getting busted? It’s so they can recover quicker. NOT to get the extra MPH on a fast ball.
These guys all got to the show because they are talented. It’s the ones who can play every day on a consistently great basis, that are recognized as the great ones. Those who do that over 20 years, go to the HOF.
Look in the NFL. I’m a Chiefs fan. Brodie Croyle might be the next Joe Montana. Maybe not. But dude can’t stay on the field long enough to finish a game.
It doesn’t matter how good you are, if you’re not available. Ask Mike Hampton.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this
N8
I wasn’t trying to assign blame to the Braves or Maddux for what happened. We live in the era of free agency. Players change teams and teams make decisions on how they think they should best spend their budgets. From what I recall, Schuerholz and Boras didn’t get along when Maddux again reached free agency — maybe these negotiations started the bad feelings — and the Braves refused to offer Maddux the long-term deal that he and Boras demanded.
I understand why fans get upset when players leave or teams let them.
In my view, I think better of the players who take hometown discounts to stay with their original clubs, as Chipper has, and Andruw and Smoltz did for most of their careers. Once you acquire a guy who didn’t come up through your system, if he decides to leave, I may curse under my breath for a day or two, but I get over it. The game really is a business, after all. A very entertaining business, but a business.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 12:50 PM | Link to this
Also N8 I’ll confess my ignorance of Maddux’s contracts, but don’t most of Boras’s high-profile clients have NTCs? I mean it’s not at all unreasonable to assume that Maddux had to give his permission to be traded both from the Cubs and from the Padres.
Again, if Maddux wasn’t open to moving, he would have stayed put.
Can’t blame him from wanting to help teams win pennants, after all. Dude’s a legendary competitor who should be the first unanimous HOFer.
But as i said earlier, loyalty goes both ways.
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 12:51 PM | Link to this
N8 Little BRADY ANDERSON
God I remember that year he jacked a bazillion homies after what a career high of 14 and our own JAVY LOPEZ went up 20-25 lbs of muscle in one off season and jacked 41………..
I know from Aussie Footy who the most likely cheats are (in terms of injury profiles etc) but we never will know unless we were the one holding the syringe/s doing the injecting..
FWIW - My brother in law is a retired professional Aussie Footy Player and he was a huge dude but never grew his head, his foot size (Barry Bonds feet have grown for instance) and other guys he played against would suddenly put on 20lbs in a short time and seem to grow an extra leg and be able to withstand injuries etc etc… NONE OF THEM ever tested tv2 for roids or other PEDs
By Frank
February 7, 2009 12:51 PM | Link to this
For what it’s worth, IMO…
Hank Aaron is stil HR champ. Always was and always will be…
Sorry DOB…….but for all the Glavine-haters…..step the hell off, ALRIGHT? I’m so sick of the resistence to Tommy on this blog.
If Moyer can pitch effectively way past his 40th birthday…SO CAN TOMMY.
By N Nine (eta57)
February 7, 2009 12:55 PM | Link to this
Torre knew a little something something about A-Fraud. That chase to beat Barry Bonds now means less to me! Sad day for MLB.
After absorbing this latest news, Its no shocker. …and we came 2nd to get his services in 2003.(probably a good thing)
Sign Glavine and find a bat. Ohman would be a bonus. We need a left handed starter. Glavine made what 8 MM last year for his terrible results? He owes us a hometown discount. Some hate that “owes” approach, but this is different!! Take the 1-2MM and move on.
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 12:56 PM | Link to this
The Bear
I was smiling as I wrote that. Must have come out wrong! No i can assure you my ramblings are exactly what they seem, Ramblings
By Salamander
February 7, 2009 12:58 PM | Link to this
Yes,BravesFanInRockies I completely agree with you that players have every reason to keep quiet about using PEDs, which is why I attached the “25-50 years from now” clause to my statement. For the same reason why players used substances like steroids and HGH ($$$), I think some former players who fall on hard times will fess up and start naming names - think book deals, documentaries, TV specials, etc.
Even if none of that happens, I think enough circumstantial evidence will have come to light that the period of roughly 1985-2005 will be forever remembered as the Steroid Era, which of course is a conclusion that many people have already come to.
The REAL question is how many players are currently taking substances that are non-detectable. Given the amount of money that players can earn, its in their best interests to do whatever it takes to succeed at the major league level. Of course, this is just pure paranoid speculation on my part. I truly hope no player is currently using PEDs, but such a hope is probably very naive.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 12:58 PM | Link to this
N8
RE: AFraud—
Maybe he was juicing all the time. One way people tend to assume players were juicing is that they bulk up and slow down (as a buddy of mine used to say, Bond went from a 40-40 guy to a 70-0 guy in a couple of years). Other than the season ARod stole 46 bases (when he was 22), he’s never swiped more than 28 and most years he’s been in the high teens, low 20s.
So again, he hasn’t shown the dramatic changes in performance that made guys like Brady Anderson and Bonds and Palmeiro (and I’d include Luis Gonzalez, too) stand out.
The really big deal of all this, as I said earlier, is that MLB’s opportunity to ask people to forget about Bonds and McGwire and Palmeiro is gone. Over. Kaput.
ARod’s tainted, too, and any career records he surpasses will be accompanied by an asterisk in the view of many fans from now on.
By N8
February 7, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies
Sorry. Wasn’t trying to butt in and rag on you. It could have been a short post about Maddux being traded as often as he’s chosen (signed) to go elsewhere.
You’re probably right about him having to accept a trade. But why wouldn’t he at the end of his career wanna go to the playoffs?
The rest of the rant, was just me babbling about how he shouldn’t have been turned loose by JS so quickly. But Time Warner (and empty seats at the Ted) had more to do with that, than lack of respect for Maddux on JS’s part, I’m guessing.
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 1:01 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Glavine … just got off the phone with him. He and the family were driving to Charlotte for a hockey tourney (his kid’s team).
Gonna write a story now. He really wants to pitch for Atlanta, still hasn’t given much thought to pitching elsewhere. But….
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 7, 2009 1:10 PM | Link to this
A-Fraud, no surprise.
What will shock the blog is when one very prominent Brave is revealed as a juicer. It’s all going to come out in the wash and it’s only a matter of time.
By N8
February 7, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this
I just have to reiterate my anger and blame to Bud Selig and Donal Fehr over this nonsense.
It has been nothing but a cover-up, since all this crap started. With nothing but their own azzes and reputations being considered.
One could argue, that in the short term Selig was doing what was best for the game by keeping it a secret, and not making the superstars walk the plank, so to speak. But in the long-term the results will be damning.
What’s more sad, is that MLB set attendance records last year. Which is “good” because that means people still love the game. But that’s bad, because the average fan isn’t outraged enough to walk away.
Then again, I still tune in. But my passion for the stats, and “little things” that make baseball great, like the rich history of records that stood for years, is gonna go away sooner than later.
Sad day, indeed.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this
N8
No prob. At all. My guess is, The Streak is going to look even more impressive years from now once we reflect on how much Schuerholz had to scramble to meet those ever-declining TW budgets.
By Steve from OH
February 7, 2009 1:26 PM | Link to this
Coach—let me guess: Chipper? Explain (without me saying whether I think you are right or wrong). I’m interested to hear your argument.
By Billy Pilgrim
February 7, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the cryptic Glav update @ 1:01 DOB!
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 1:34 PM | Link to this
AROID
The SI article is especially damning as it appears AROD was using the most sophisticated type of roids (outside the clear) in 2003 and had been warned..
One would NOT learn about non-prescription roids and use them unless they had intimate knowledge/advice on the subject
104 others tested positive and the names are in the hands of the FEDS…
I think we may be hearing a LOT more of these names once the FEDS win the court case against the players union….
By THE BEAR
February 7, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this
CanadianBrave, your comment accepted; it’s a closed subject.
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 1:37 PM | Link to this
DOB Could we use JO JO Reyes in lieu of The Dude out of the pen this year and just sign Glavine ?
By N Nine (eta57)
February 7, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
“What will shock the blog is when one very prominent Brave is revealed as a juicer. It’s all going to come out in the wash and it’s only a matter of time.” Coach
George Mitchell missed out on Identifying A Fraud, so the point of a Brave is always a possibility. But Who is big enough that matters?
Chipper and Andruw come in mind. I seriously doubt Chipper ever touched anything. Chipper always had the talent and has been steady. Andruw would not shock me! His downfall brings doubts. David Justice is fighting this issue. Even our future talent was suspended. Its part of life. I just hope no Braves legend is on the black list.
By N Nine (eta57)
February 7, 2009 1:45 PM | Link to this
dosbrekky Why JOJO? we will automatically put Campillo in the Pen and we do have some leftys but Ohman would seal the deal…
You know, I really think Soriano will pitch more this year.
By Braveheart
February 7, 2009 1:45 PM | Link to this
N8, are you really still that angry about it? You knew or should have know what was going on over a decade ago. Did you really have no clue what was going between 94 and Mitchell? You kind of sound like The Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer from the SNL skits
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I’m just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists. Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW.. and run off into the hills, or wherever.. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: “Did little demons get inside and type it?” I don’t know! My primitive mind can’t grasp these concepts. But there is one thing I do know………
By mbatl
February 7, 2009 1:48 PM | Link to this
If Chipper has ever used (which I very much doubt), he sure had some cajones for this 2007 interview
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 7, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this
The irony of all this is, when Jose Canseco linked A-Rod to steroids, nobody listened. Typhoid Mary (Canseco) should know, he started it all back in the late eighties.
Jose Canseco has more credibility than anybody right now because he blew the damn whistle when the rest of MLB was trying to sweep steroids under the rug. And that is a sad statement concerning the condition of the game I love.
Besides, the guilty should know better than the innocent by virtue of having violated the conscience of morality.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 7, 2009 1:52 PM | Link to this
Chipper Jones is clean as far as I’m concerned. Fingering anybody else is pointless until the evidence comes to light.
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this
N Nine
I was just thinking if we have run out of loot, why not put JOJO and Campillo in the pen, sign Glavine as number 4 or 5 starter if his arm is good and kiss the Dude bye bye….. then if we need a bat we may get one…………
By Tomas
February 7, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this
A-roid, A-fraud, wow this is huge news. Turns out chipper was right after all. This is just devastating news for baseball, but at least now I can laugh at all those Yankee fans.
By KC
February 7, 2009 2:12 PM | Link to this
If A-Rod was roid’ing… can we officially call Ken Griffey Jr. the greatest player of this generation?
I think so.
If Griffey didn’t have so much injury troubl, and Bonds hadn’t stolen the HR record… we might have seen a great player legitimately cross the 755 mark.
By DAP
February 7, 2009 2:20 PM | Link to this
this is a little off topic, but ive been thinking, we need to hope that vazquez has a really good season this year, and bounces back. not only because it will help us win, but because he is definitly trade bait after the season.
the braves will probably excersise hudson’s option, unless he doesnt pitch at all this year, which means we will have lowe, vazquez, hudson, jurjens, and kawakami under control for 2010. weve also got hanson, morton, jojo, campillo, just to name a few, who will all be about ready to be in the rotation full time.
also, soriano and gonazlez will be free agents. chipper will be a free agent (i hope we extend him first)
the braves are going to need a closer, a setup guy and a third baseman, maybe some oufielders, and will have a whole bunch of extra starting pitchers.
i think vazquez will have a good rebound year, and then will get traded in a package for bullpen help, and/or maybe an outfielder. it will be salary releif and will open spots for young guys.
i think its either this, or hudson’s option does not get excersied, which probbaly means he didnt make it back in 2009. so, lets hope vazquez lights it up this year and raises his value, so we can get some good pieces in return.
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 2:30 PM | Link to this
I think we need to examine the structure of society, before we make villians out of past users of steroids or related substances.
It is a well known fact that as a society we are prone to succumb to the opinions of the so-called authority figures in our lives.
How many people blindly accept the word of their doctors or lawyers or accountants, or government for that matter as fact, without every questioning or acquiring a second opinion.
I am in no way trying to exonerate the athletes, by excusing them from responsibility for their actions, but it is possible that the existing athletic medical sub-culture of the time, created an environment where the players trusted the medical personnel, as authority figures, in counselling them in the administration of these substances.
Baseball at the time was suffering financially, and the powers that be no doubt turned a blind eye to the underlying events that contributed to the public’s renewed interest in mammoth homerun races, and power displays, that reestablished their confidence and enjoyment of America’s game.
The players in turn had to compete with this increased power production in an effort to be seen as competitive, in an environment that was constantly more demanding.
Salaries were escalating and the game was becoming dominated by power displays. In order to compete, and reap the benefits, players who were just competent, had to indulge to survive, and so the wheel had been driven.
On the surface, everyone was benefitting, from the use of these substances, and the game was thriving. As questions began to surface, These drugs became more sophisticated, became available in oral forms, and were administered by individuals that the players trusted, under the authority of trusted medical personnel.
In the 80’s, homerun crowns were won by players with 36 home runs. By the end of the nineties, if a player hit 30 homeruns, he was just middle of the road power-wise. The public appetite for homeruns was ravenous, and if players didn’t recover from surgeries immediately, the fans were crying for new and more powerful replacements. By this time, which brings us up to near the time of the A-rod news, it is probably scary to think what percentage of players were juiced in some way.
Fear of being left out of the financial windfall, trust of authority, and pressure from fans for increased productivity probably all drove the steroid market.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a firm believer in innocence is no plea, but I think fans, owners, the media and the players all share a role in the evolution of the use of these substances.
Or maybe not, just another ramble!
By Saltywoody
February 7, 2009 2:32 PM | Link to this
But…
?????????
By Butch Haynes
February 7, 2009 2:34 PM | Link to this
As expected, the Rick Springfield concert last night was awesome! That dude can shred! He rocked out with Jesse’s Girl, and then played some other stuff, and then mellowed out with an acoustic version of Jesse’s Girl, and then played some other stuff, and then closed the set with the extended play version of Jesse’s Girl! Kicked butt!
By N Nine (eta57)
February 7, 2009 2:35 PM | Link to this
DONK!
That was Steinbrenner head hitting the floor. I bet they want an out clause also, and redo that signing!
10-year, $275 million contract that will pay him into his forties!
not just that he got a “special” bonus clause that includes SIX MM per milestone HR. Yes all 5 milestones. OUCH. The fans will hate him and the whole marketing idea will fail. Afraud indeed.
Wonder if Yankees will find a way out of this. Stay tuned…
Fill in the blank. 2008-Roger Clemens. 2009- AROD - 2010- who is next?
KC I agree Griffey is now in line for the best in the 90’s generation. Yes he would have crushed those HR#’s
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 2:35 PM | Link to this
DAP - Vazquez has the most strikeouts in baseball over I think the last 5 years and is coming from a hitters park with a rat-a* manager to a pitchers park to a manager who will build him up !
They have Buck Shoalwater on now (Rangers manager in 2003), he says they were never told about ANY positive tests…………
By N8
February 7, 2009 2:36 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
YEAH!! I’m still angry about it. Believe it or not, my buddies and I were talking about who we thought was roiding long ago.
I truly wanted to believe that Arod was clean. He has denied allogations from Canseco. Now he’s not only guilty, he’s a liar.
The Feds (along with Selig and Fehr), know who’s on that list. That bothers me.
The fact that this week it came out that Selig is making 17.5 million dollars, only heightens my anger.
Ask yourself. What on earth has Selig done for the game, that when future generations of baseball fans look back, they will say “Thank god, that Selig was commissioner”????
Every commissioner is remembered for something. Giamatti will ALWAYS be connected to Pete Rose. Period.
IMO, Selig will be remembered for two things. Not only allowing, but facilitating the roid-era, and of course, who’s EVER gonna get the dumb-founded (empasizing the word DUMB), look on his face at the famous “tie game” all-star game?
If you can name something GOOD he’s done for the game. Please do.
I’m not angry about the roids, and the players that were ALLOWED to do so, without punishment, or reprimand. I’m angry at the person(s) in charge of allowing it to do so.
If your neighbors dog repeatedly does it’s “business” on your lawn, who’s to blame? The dog or the dog’s owner? Me? I place blame right to the top.
“Jose Canseco has more credibility than anybody right now because he blew the damn whistle when the rest of MLB was trying to sweep steroids under the rug. And that is a sad statement concerning the condition of the game I love.” Coach
Agree 100 PERCENT! Sad that in the end, Canseco (for whatever revenge/motive/financial gain he had up his sleeve for righting the book), is only one with some dignity in all of this.
By Yars
February 7, 2009 2:38 PM | Link to this
theBear……I agree with you 100% regarding your 11:43 post about Manny. I still see the Dodgers resigning him.
By J.D.
February 7, 2009 2:39 PM | Link to this
Does this eliminate A-Rod from the Hall of Fame? The biggest names with this always get the worst of it, and it isn’t like A-Rod wasn’t a hated man in NY before. Wait until they start playing in new Yankee Stadium. It is going to be UGLY.
By dogsbrekky
February 7, 2009 2:40 PM | Link to this
Butch BUT, did he do the disco remix version of Jessie’s Girl ?
BTW - When he was a 60s rocker ol’ Ricky did an awesome hard rock version of Eleanor Rigby.. (FWIW)
By N8
February 7, 2009 2:42 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
Forgot to mention that I actually LOVE the Caveman Attourney skits. So thanks for bringing it up. Made me smile.
I guess the problem with secrets (which is exactly what the hold decade - be it, a poorly kept one - for Selig). By NOT coming out with the names and letting each player (along with himself), deal with what Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro and McGwire have dealt with, is that EVERY TIME a new superstar’s name comes up, it just reminds everbody of it all over again.
VERY sad that Bonds, McGwire and Clemens might never see the HOF, when every single one of them more than likely would have gotten their anyhow.
Makes me appreciate guys like Murphy, Brett, Ozzie Smith a little more.
By Cheesy Music Lover
February 7, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this
Damn, I hate that I missed the Rick Springfield concert. Unfortunately, I was too busy over at the mall watching Debbie Gibson and Tiffany,
By Yars
February 7, 2009 2:49 PM | Link to this
For those with the MLB Network, try to catch that hour long Bob Costas interview with Joe Torre. What a fascinating interview, especially when A-rod is discussed. now playing: happiest girl by depeche mode.
By JasonInFL (Formerly ME)
February 7, 2009 2:51 PM | Link to this
N8, while I too think Selig has done as more to hurt the game than to help, many people will point to the Wild Card as a huge plus. There are folks that love interleague (I hate it). Teams and players both make more money now which is one of the goals of the guy in charge…
By Anders
February 7, 2009 2:51 PM | Link to this
Today the MLB Network becomes a man thanks to A-Rod. They’re covering this whole story live like CNN covers election day. Costas, Verducci, Reynolds, former players who played with A-Rod , one of the writers who broke the story for SI - all within hours of the story breaking. As I said when this network opened for business a month ago, if you’re a baseball fan there won’t be any reason to turn ESPN on again when baseball news breaks or during the season when you want to catch scores and watch highlights.
Costas gives them such a major player presence. They’ve really nailed this thing.
BTW- didn’t read all the posts above but I did see a couple that brought Chipper’s name up. There are two guys that I’d be willing to bet my life never used steroids - Jeter and Chipper. I will say that I always suspected Piazza would be on a list someday - maybe this is the list.
By McFann O –[zzz] (Braves Fann For Life)
February 7, 2009 3:01 PM | Link to this
Spotts—
OK! Sounds good! Just post a link to it once you get it up, please.
Danke!
By Tomas
February 7, 2009 3:02 PM | Link to this
Andruw is close TO SIGNING A MINOR LEAGUE DEAL with Texas. Why didn’t the Braves offered him at least a minor league deal?
By Bobby's Cox
February 7, 2009 3:03 PM | Link to this
N8
I’m not angry about the roids, and the players that were ALLOWED to do so, without punishment, or reprimand. I’m angry at the person(s) in charge of allowing it to do so
Amen to that….that should be the story, not the individual players. I could give a rat’s about a-rod, conseco, mcgwire, bonds, clemens, etc…All I care about are the records that were tarnished, and the facts that the ones in charge of the game let it happen to spike the ratings after the strike.
Selig’s HAS done good things for the game. Getting more teams into the playoffs, interleague, etc… but the steroid issue was entirely his fault by letting it happen, and he let it slip to increase ratings. By the way, the unbalanced schedule sucks…
The only other thing I care about is the other sports taking a back seat to baseball when a marginally higher percentage of players in other sports (i.e. football) use the stuff more than baseball players.
By Yars
February 7, 2009 3:04 PM | Link to this
As a baseball obsessed child, Canseco was my favorite player, along with Eric Davis, Strawberry, Sandberg, Mattingly, Vince Coleman, Maddux, Glavine, Murphy, Mark Grace, ect… When Canseco’s first book came out in ‘05, I bought it & everything he admitted to did not surprise me one bit. His first book was slammed by players & the media from the very beginning, how it all was a lie, meaning all the players he exposed as users, such as A-rod, McGwire, Clemens, Bret Boone, Jason Giambi, were given a free ride by the media. Just no way any of them were ever on PED’s. Those of us that are hard core baseball fans, that live & breathe baseball pretty much everyday, (probably 95% of us on this here Braves/MIB blog) have always had, I’m sure, our suspicions of certain players. I’ve never cared much for A-rod. Hell, I hope even more dirt is dug up on the guy. By all this being exposed, I can’t help but appreciate players like Maddux, Glavine, Chipper, Griffey, Jeter even more. now playing: monkey gone to heaven by the pixies.
By Braveheart
February 7, 2009 3:06 PM | Link to this
Oh, N8, I just wanted to work in an Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer reference. But I agree with you. Like you, the little bit of anger that I still have is directed at the powers that be that created an environment where most of these guys could be seen as foolish, ignorant, negligent or uncompetitive if they weren’t using. I always think of what Chad Curtis said after Senator Mitchell outed so many of them - paraphrasing him - “I was a starter on a bad team, a fourth outfielder on a contender, but maybe if I was on that stuff or if no one else was on that stuff, maybe I was so much more.”
By Randy S
February 7, 2009 3:08 PM | Link to this
Andruw close to a minor league deal with the Rangers, hmmmmm.
STORY
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 7, 2009 3:12 PM | Link to this
Anders How much does the MLB Network cost? I assume MLB Extra Innings is seperate?
For all the strong basketball played by the Knicks this past week, they really got nothin’ to show, huh? I’m startin to love Al Harrington too, he is really good!
For all who don’t want Glavine You can never have enough reliable starting pitching. What you’re going to rely on Campillo/Morton/Reyes for the #5 spot? What if Kawakami is a bust like Kei Igawa?? What if, God forbid, Lowe/Jurrjens or Vazquez go down?? What if Campillo gets found out?? Too many question marks there..See the Braves 2008 Pitching staff! Glavine, if healthy, which it appears he finally is after he got his arm and shoulder cleaned up, will be a phenomenal asset to the Braves rotation and squad as a whole…
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 3:14 PM | Link to this
I guess Scott Boras sent Andruw out to Texas for more than just hitting tips from Rudy Jaramillo a few weeks ago. Probably sent him there to convince Rangers officials that he could still hit.
By mbatl
February 7, 2009 3:18 PM | Link to this
N8, seems to me you want to blame everybody (Selig, MLB, the government) except those who actually cheated - the players who illegally obtained banned substances, and used them against the rules of MLB (even though there stupidly was no punishment for using them, they were banned).
By Steve from OH
February 7, 2009 3:18 PM | Link to this
Another solid article from Will Carroll over at Baseball Prospectus regarding the cutting edge of steroid technology.
By N8
February 7, 2009 3:19 PM | Link to this
Jason in FL & Bobby’s Cox
I guess, for me, I’m not a huge fan of Interleague (actually like the idea, but don’t like the current “set up”), and prefer more games against division opponents, so the LONG 162 Game regular season determines who’s in, come October.
IE: Never have been a big fan of the Wild Card. As Ricky Bobby’s dad allegedly said, if you’re not winning you’re losing. Which is what the wild Card is… the best of the losers.
Of course, that being said, I understand WHY the wildcard is in place. Because every 50 years or so, there is a situation like the one that happened in 93, when the Giants won 103 games and MISSED the playoffs. Kinda like the Chargers winning the weak AFC West, while the Patriots sat at home at 11-5 (or 10-6, already forgot).
But, as long as interleague AND the wild card BOTH exsist, it’s an unfair scenario. Until they create a balanced schedule, where everybody in the NL play the same teams, and the everybody in the AL play the same team, it won’t be “fair”.
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
Well, if Frank Wren has shown anything this winter, it’s that connections to the Braves’ glory years aren’t going to guide his decisions. That should be clear now, after the modest offer to Smoltz, the even-more-modest offer to Glavine and declining to guarantee anything to Andruw.
By The Vet
February 7, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
hey DOB anything new on Chipper and a contract extension? spring is getting closer and coming fast, i would hate to see AL teams lineing up offers for him to be a DH this fall
By the jerk
February 7, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this
I like Glavine I really do. I want him back.
But, I don’t want Hanson sitting in AAA if he’s ready to pitch now. If Tampa has David Price in their rotation, there’s no reason the Braves should not have Hanson in theirs if he shows he’s ready in ST.
The best case scenario would be to sign Glavine if someone got hurt during the season or if Hanson proved not to be ready, but I’m not sure Glavine’s set on waiting.
By Anders
February 7, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this
Chuck James
I have verizon/Fios and it didn’t cost me anything when the network started in January. It was considered part of the sports pack I already had.
MLB innings is seperate.
Man, it looks like Gene Orza and Donald Fehr really screwed this whole testing thing up by not having the test results destroyed as the agreement called for. 104 players could be outed when all they agreeed to was anonymuos testing that was to be destroyed after the data was collected.Is it possible for these players to sue their own union about this? This could get very, very ugly.
DOB - Am I wrong here? Your thoughts on all this?
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 3:34 PM | Link to this
N8
I think MLB would love to expand to 32 teams, eight divisions. Then the wild card wouldn’t be necessary. The economy may set that cause back a decade if not longer.
Man, what a relief if Andruw signs with the Rangers. Braves fans won’t have to worry that he would be the everyday CF for this year’s Braves team even if he hit .150. Again.
BTW, Dook/Miami headed to overtime!
By N8
February 7, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this
DOB
Was thinking the same thing about Wren and nostalgia. Looks like Glavine (ex-NL Players rep Glavine), is gonna have to think long and hard about how much HE wants to pitch for Atlanta.
mbatl
I’m not totally ridding the players of any blame. I’ve often tried to determine if I was put in the same position (where deciding to do steroids might mean the difference in MILLIONS of dollars), what I would do. I can’t answer that.
They are definitely to blame. At some point they have to be held accountable.
You said: “…even though there stupidly was no punishment for using them, they were banned.”
Exactly. No REASON (other than morally), to NOT do them. That and health reasons later in life.
But there is PLENTY of penalty for DUI’s, yet people continue.
By #1 Smoltz Fan
February 7, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this
Biggest story of 2009 will be the come back of Andruw Jones in my opinion. I dont understand the thought process of Frank Wren, he flat out does not understand that a come back of Andruw Jones is EXACTLY what would fill the seats at the Ted.
I dont see the spark in our lineup right now??? We have several good pitchers, but I think everyone agrees none are great. And the same goes forour lineup in my opinion, we have good players batting 1-7 (I suspect) but are any of them great? Possibly McCann….maybe Escobar? Andruw Jones needed to be back home and an reasonably competitive offer to Andruw would have brought him home for an explosive comeback season.
Congrats RANGERS you will have headlines across the nation at some point this year, and the loralty of a great player for taking a little risk on what will bounce back to be a Huge bat.
Nice job Wren, show NO dedication to the players and you wonder why nobody will take your money. I hope Bobby retires soon as you are a disgrace to the dedication he gives his players.
By Bobby's Cox
February 7, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this
I agree on that too N8
I’m a little over interleague, but more with its current “set up”. If they could have every team play the same winning percentage of teams based on the previous year’s record, and who hasn’t played who that most recent, that would be more “fair”. The current set up of east playing east every other year, and east playing central/west every 4th year, that’s “unfair”.
I like the wild card too. It gets more teams involved in the playoff picture. It also enables some teams in the stronger divisions to make the playoffs, i.e the AL east this year with 3 very good teams.
In terms of the playoffs, the first round should be best of 7 games to prevent the .500 teams a chance of moving deeper in the playoffs.
Now, i can’t stand the unbalanced schedule. They definitely need to change that.
By mbatl
February 7, 2009 3:42 PM | Link to this
“Man, it looks like Gene Orza and Donald Fehr really screwed this whole testing thing up by not having the test results destroyed as the agreement called for.”
Anders, you didn’t ask me, but I agree 100%. Those tests should never have had names attached in the first place. Also, I have a feeling the Feds are gonna be p**sed that this whole thing (arod) got leaked. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them subpoena SI for the source names… which would lead to a whole new legal action.
From Richard Nixon to Martha Stewart, Barry Bonds to Roger Clemens … the beat goes on. People under-estimate how serious the feds are in their investigations.
By Anders
February 7, 2009 3:44 PM | Link to this
Bravesfaninrockies
I think it’s more likely that the MLB will add wild card teams in the next few years. Look at the AL. With the Yanks and Red Sox in the same division it almost assured that one will win the division and the other the WC taking away the WC as a possibility for the central and west. Last year was an exception imo.
By Bobby's Cox
February 7, 2009 3:45 PM | Link to this
Glad Andruw’s not coming back.
Do you seriously think AJ would have the same success here that he would have in Texas? Texas is filled with big-time hitters, and that leads me to think they have a good hitting program. It’s no mistake Boras wanted him to go there. Texas also has a DH.
I hope AJ does turn it around and can still play OF. That might make Nelson Cruz available for a ST trade….wink.
By The Vet
February 7, 2009 3:49 PM | Link to this
Hey #1 Smoltz fan are any of our hitters great? Um are u sure your a braves fan?? Chipper Jones is one of the best hitters in the game…. add the last 2 years up of any hitter Chipper is in top 3 in AVG,OBP only behind the likes of Big Papi and Pujols
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 3:49 PM | Link to this
**#1 Smoltz Fan##
Andruw may — I say may — hit for a higher average in 2009 than he did in 2007. But I’d be shocked if his power numbers are better this year than they were then (26 HR, 27 2B). I wager he’ll strike out 150 times if he gets more than 500 plate appearances.
Of course he might not get 500 plate appearances because he’ll be benched.
By Anders
February 7, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this
It also appears Gene Orza was tipping players off when they would be tested. Holy crap! The players union has a huge problem. I have an idea on how to start to fix this that you guys won’t like but I truly believe will help. Glavine should retire and take over running the union. He has credibility in this area on all sides. He comes with a squeaky clean image. He says that the old guard is gone and we need to move forward to clean this up -now.
Maybe I’m reading this whole thing wrong but it appears this whole steroid thing is going to explode again with the union management itself being implicated in wrong doing and incompetence.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 3:56 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
I like the Cruz idea, but first he has to stink and Andruw has to shine. Those are big ifs.
Texas has a “good hitting program” because Arlington is a great hitters park. Something about the sightlines and the dimensions and (most likely) the heat wearing out pitchers as the season goes along.
By McFann O –[zzz] (Braves Fann For Life)
February 7, 2009 3:56 PM | Link to this
#1 Smoltz Fan “but are any of them great? Possibly McCann…”
Possibly…
And don’t forget CJ. I hear he’s pretty good.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 4:00 PM | Link to this
Anders
That Glavine idea is truly inspired. One thing you’ve always been able to say about him: He’s all about the integrity of the sport.
By Steve McP
February 7, 2009 4:01 PM | Link to this
Maybe Andruw will regress so far that the diehard fans might get the chance to see him at the Hickory Crawdads.
By Steve from OH
February 7, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this
This is awesome. A cheater AND a liar to boot.
By N8
February 7, 2009 4:09 PM | Link to this
mbatl
I should have added that the players have a competitive streak in them like none of us will ever know. Millions of dollars are/were at stake. Not only for them, but their agents, the advertisers (whom the players endorse), along with the owners (and it’s RICH commissioner).
The ONLY thing that can truly punish these guys is banishment, ignoring them and treating them like they never exsisted.
As much as McGwire seemed to love the spot-light of “saving baseball” along with Sosa in 98. Do you think the fact that the HOF voters, along with ALL of the fans in MLB, have basically said “we don’t care about you”, would make him change his mind about cheating?
Not only are these guys competitive, but (like any entertainer), they’re ego maniacs. So how do you hurt somebody that wants attention? Ignore them.
By jtb
February 7, 2009 4:14 PM | Link to this
1 Smoltz FanYour 3:39 post doesn’t really make any sense to me for many reasons. First of all, how would a comeback of Andruw Jones fill seats at Turner Field? The Braves attendance has been hovering in between 30 to 33 thousand per game for the past 5 plus years including last season when Andruw was not a Brave.
Secondly, what leads you to believe that he will have a huge season this year? I haven’t heard anything from anyone other than McCann and Scott Boras that leads me to believe that anything has changed. Chipper sure didn’t have anything positive to say about how he was hitting in the cages a few weeks ago.
Third, why is Wren supposed to show dedication to Andruw Jones when it was Andruw who left the Braves for the Dodgers for more money. Where was that loyalty that you give Andruw so much credit for possessing?
Finally, so let me get this straight, you think the Braves line up lacks a truly great hitter, and Andruw Jones could have been that guy? Have you simply forgotten the reigning NL batting champion Chipper Jones? You think Andruw Jones, the guy who had 33 hits in 209 at bats last year will provide a spark greater than Chipper, McCann and Yunel?
By Anders
February 7, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this
Bravesfninrockies
Most on here have always taken my dissapointment in Glavine as a Met as a hatred of him. I’ve stated numerous times that it wasn’t the case and that as a professional and as a person I have the utmost respect for him.
I think he is just the kind of guy we need to lead the union now. He represents the clean guys who played in the tainted era in question. It’s time those guys had a voice in this. That’s the only way this gets dealt with and put behind us. ( I don’t say cleaned up becuse I don’t think it cn truly ever be totally cleaned up)
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 4:30 PM | Link to this
One last note on Andruw. He turned down a minor-league invitation from the Yanks but is apparently about to accept one from the Rangers.
I’m guessing the boos he heard the last two years affected him.
But seriously, where’s he going to have a better opportunity to win? Seriously? What does that tell you?
By cvbraves
February 7, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this
DOB What do you think or can you give an honest opinion, given the circumstances?
Without naming names or teams, would a $1-2 million offer be fair in today’s market for a starting pitcher who is approaching 43 years of age, had a 2-6 won lost record, a 5.54 ERA in 13 starts last year, then went on the DL and had arm surgery?
By Blane McFarnersternski
February 7, 2009 4:58 PM | Link to this
I hope Glavine goes to another team. He thinks the Braves owe him.
No more old broken down pitchers , please.
By Salamander
February 7, 2009 5:09 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies I think Andruw signing with the Rangers indicates a few things:
(1) better chance to make the ML club (than with the Yankees). (2) better chance to pad numbers in that ballpark. (3) Andruw was convinced by the Ranger’s hitting coach that he can help him with his swing during ST. (4) easier to “rehab” his career away from the media circus of NY.
What I’m left wondering is why he would take a minor league deal from the Rangers, but not the Braves.
By Braveheart
February 7, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this
For whatever reason, I came across the below excerpt on the internet today from Bill James about Dick Allen in his politics of glory book. I thought it was somewhat applicable to the debate we’re having on here about Manny.
Bob Carroll, in making Dick Allen’s Hall of Fame case wrote that “Rugged individualism is more admired at a distance than up close and personal.” Rugged individualism? How about alcoholism, irresponsibility, and vindictiveness? How about paranoia and pettiness? They’re all easier to admire from a distance.
“Had Dick Allen played fifty years ago,” Carroll continued, “he might be lauded today as a shining example of American independence. Instead, his moodiness, self-absorption, and free-and-easy approach to baseball make him anathema to many.”
Well, pardon me, but was there an era in baseball history where moodiness, self-absorption and a casual approach to the game were considered desirable qualities in a ballplayer? Was there a time in baseball history when a player could not show up at the ballpark once in a while without anybody making an issue out of it?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 7, 2009 5:18 PM | Link to this
An open letter to Tom Glavine.
Your Hall of Fame resume is complete with 305 wins. Twenty-two seasons and 128 million is in the bank. Two Cy Young awards and one World Championship ring along with ten All-Star appearances and four Silver Slugger awards must have your trophy cabinet looking grand.
That said. You say that YOU want to pitch for the Braves. We keep hearing YOU say that the old left arm is nearly ready and money is hardly an obstacle. My advice, swallow the pride and pitch. We want you, the Braves want you and only YOU can make the right decision.
Tommy Turncoat is a thing of the past, let’s keep it that way, OK.
By TexasBrave
February 7, 2009 5:26 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand the move by Andrew if it really happens. Andrew would have a better shot at making the team here with two available spots than with the Rangers that are content with the outfielders they have (Murphy, Hamilton and Cruz) plus Byrd is their DH and can play the outfield in a pinch. They also have two other outfielders on their roster.
very courious move.
By lexbrave
February 7, 2009 5:26 PM | Link to this
i think the only thing left for the braves to do now to complete the veteran insult trifecta is to offer chipper a 5 million dollar a year extension.
By Dadgum
February 7, 2009 5:28 PM | Link to this
DOB…..Glavine if healthy would be a long-shot to command the #5 slot IMO. Give me youth and talent over experience every day. Again as I have said Glavine deserves a shot but 1.5 - 2 mil is indeed generous given all the Braves have to go on. They don’t have a crystal ball and understandably are gunshy.
A-Rod? Steroids? Now there is a real shocker! If it is true that will really hurt his rep no question. McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, and A-Rod would not make the HOF most likely. If I had a vote I would not vote for Bonds. When Shoeless Joe and Rose are in then maybe. Regardless of how Bonds played early in his career the HoF is for complete careers.
Rock on…….
By raymond
February 7, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this
I also believe Glavine is history and I think the only reason the Braves made an offer at all is so they can say they did when the fans get mad. They know he is not going to sign for a million per, but at least they can say they made him “what they feel is a competitive offer”. Spend the money on a left fielder and if we have enough left, use it to get Ohman.
By richbrave
February 7, 2009 5:35 PM | Link to this
DAVE:
Yours of 10:29 a.m. I had her on my post as BEST ACTRESS nominee until I went on-line and read some of the supposed controversy over the role. It said she was up for BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS. I thought to myself who he!! did she support? She MADE this movie. So on sagacious advice(yours) I revert to my original - KATE WINSLET, BEST ACTRESS 2009 for “THE READER.”
By waterstim
February 7, 2009 5:36 PM | Link to this
I can’t stand A-rod, nor the Yankees. But it is wrong to promise someone that the records are to be sealed, and it leaks out. Pathetic. It mirrors out society. Greed and lies. Journalists are no different than anyone else. You can’t just stand behind, “I just doing my job”. This is ethically wrong…..but I don’t guess that matters anymore.
By TennesseePaul
February 7, 2009 5:38 PM | Link to this
McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, and A-Rod would not make the HOF most likely
Yeah right. I’d like to think the voters were working on some sort of principle concerning the HF, but from everything I’ve read, the logic is Bonds should be voted in for his days in Pittsburgh alone and A-Rod will slide by as well. Clemens may be ruined if only for his capitol hill testimony… the same seat occupied by Sosa, McGwire and Gonzalez.
It’s a sham. The greatest players of the day are all suspected cheats. But, I really enjoyed watching the homeruns fly. I’ll never forget watching Barroid launch homeruns in SF while I sat behind home plate. He’d kill that ball. Same with Mac. Just loved watching him crush the ball. I don’t think they should be enshrined, but I’m glad to know what it looks like up close when chemistry and baseball are mixed.
By more BS from Tommy G.
February 7, 2009 5:58 PM | Link to this
This quote from the article about TG:
“I’m not going back to pitch simply because I want to make more money, I’m going back to because I think I have some unfinished business,” Glavine said.
That was followed by more TG double talk about wanting more money and the economy and if it’s worth it… blah, blah freakin blah!
Tom, your comment says it all. P** or get off the pot. 1 mil, 2 mil, 10 mil… when you’ve made well over 100 million in your career and you make the comment you made above. You either sign the contract or not.
Do not play the media and the Braves fans once again. If you still don’t understand why some Braves fans don’t forgive you for leaving the Braves the first time… you might want to re-read what i wrote. You’ve pi$$ed this former Glavine fan off again.
By Oromus
February 7, 2009 6:00 PM | Link to this
Braves should sign Ohman, Griffey, Andruw and Glavine
Andruw - Well, at this point, All Andruw seems to want is play time. Offer him 500K and slot him for CF. If he stinks it up the first few weeks, we have plenty of people to replace him. But, if he can even manage to be Andruw of 06, we will have struck gold.
Griffey - Offer him 3 Mil to Platoon in left with Diaz. His numbers vs righties last year were very good and we’d get 20+ homers between the two of them. I haven’t seen any offers to him so far, so, he may jump at this with ST being so close.
Glavine - Offer him another 1.5 in incentives making it worth 3 Mil if he pitches 160 innings. With his experience, he would be one of the best #5s ever.
Ohman - Offer him 5 Mil over 2 years. He’s good against lefties and righties.. which is good since Bobby really doesn’t like Loogys.
That’s 7.5 to 9 Mil (depending on Glavines incentives). I’ve seen that we have 7 to 9 still left to spend, so, if we do have 9, we should be able to get this done. The only real gamble here is Andruw. But, it would be worth 500K to see if the injuries last year and the year before really were the cause of his decline.
By William
February 7, 2009 6:05 PM | Link to this
My question is if Glavine does not want to come back for the money, why is he “mulling” the offer? I think the Braves offered to much to a guy coming of arm surgery and about to turn 43.
By Steve McP
February 7, 2009 6:13 PM | Link to this
I see that a Nationals pitcher just won an arbitration case. When are the hearings for Johnson and Frenchy scheduled?
That might have some bearing on where Wren puts his $$, this could make a $2 mill dent in the figures if they both won their cases and affect the budget for meeting our remaining needs.
By Moby Grape
February 7, 2009 6:14 PM | Link to this
Texas is filled with big-time hitters, and that leads me to think they have a good hitting program. BobbysC
of course it’s got great hitters, it’s one of the 2 or 3 the best hitter’s parks in America
By kirkinga
February 7, 2009 6:18 PM | Link to this
Why are people saying Andruw has signed with the Rangers? I haven’t seen it reported anywhere, including in the Dallas paper.
It’s not on the ESPN, SI, Fox, or CBS sites. Is there another sourvce confirming a signing?
By Couch Tater
February 7, 2009 6:18 PM | Link to this
From DOB’s 2/15/08 blog. In 2007 Tom Glavine pitched 200 1/3 innings and went 8-1 with a 3.20 era before the final three starts.
Why not offer a contract with incentives to repeat that?
By Wide Right
February 7, 2009 6:21 PM | Link to this
Glavine says:
I understand those guys are waiting in the wings, and somewhere down the line they’re going to be productive in the rotation. But I think if all things are equal, I’m the better option.”
True, Tom. The problem is you want about 3X-4X as much as those guys are going to cost..which will prevent the Braves from addressing other needs. All things aren’t equal…and we may need a powerhitting LF more than a more accomplished 5th starter.
Thanks for the interview, DOB.
By nolie
February 7, 2009 6:23 PM | Link to this
But seriously, where’s he going to have a better opportunity to win? Seriously? What does that tell you? BFIR
should be no surprise that if Atlanta didn’t take him back that Boras would try to set him up in one of the best hitter’s parks to give him better odds of looking productive, plus Texas does have a well-respected hitting coach.. Be glad he wasn’t sent to Colorado.
By Lew
February 7, 2009 6:27 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-Maybe so, but Dick Allen could crush a baseball harder than any player I’ve seen during those 50 years that were being discussed. he also had one of the all time best baseball lines-“If my horse can’t eat it, then I don’t want to lay on it.” So what if he wasn’t nice? Neither were Ty Cobb or Steve Carlton. Didn’t make them any less great as players.
By waterstim
February 7, 2009 6:27 PM | Link to this
This is not an editorial……it’s a fact. Isn’t it obvious that the Braves don’t want to sign Glavine. I can’t say that I blame them (that is an edtiorial comment).
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 6:29 PM | Link to this
DOB…..Glavine if healthy would be a long-shot to command the #5 slot IMO. Dadgum
Dadgum, in my opinion you’re wrong.
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 6:30 PM | Link to this
Steve McP, if ‘m not mistaken, Frenchy’s hearing isn’t until the last day of scheduled hearings, the 20th. Not sure about Kelly.
By dgd
February 7, 2009 6:33 PM | Link to this
I’m absolutely floored that the Braves didn’t offer Glavine any incentives in the contract. Seems completely ridiculous to me: offer TG $1.5 guaranteed with the chance to double that if he stays healty and triple it if he has a really good year. Offer him another $1.5 for 25 starts and an additional $1.5 for 12 wins. Sorry, but I think this is an ugly, arrogant side of Fran Wren. I can see not guiding all decisions by the Braves’ glory years, but if Glavine’s arm really feels better than it has in years, 12 wins might be the minimum he’d win, and the Braves would only be out $4.5M. The offer that Wren made was an insult. I can see not offering any more guaranteed, but the lack of incentives was really obnoxious. On a musical note, saw an oldie but goodie band last week: The Outlaws. Man, those guys can really rock. Have two lead guitarists who are both awesome and Henry Paul still sounds great (and looks like Dennis Quaid). They should do a new, live album of their old hits. A new generation has been introduced to them because “Green Grass and High Tides” is on Guitar Hero…
By David O'Brien
February 7, 2009 6:33 PM | Link to this
Richbrave, confusion probably stemmed from fact she was nominated for best supporting actress (for some unknown reason) for the same role by SAG, Golden Globes and someone else. Obviously Oscars got this one right — it’s not a supporting role, in any sense.
She’ll win. Has to. Best actress, period, in my opinion. Taking the baton from the great Ms. Streep and running with it.
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 6:39 PM | Link to this
When JS came in to make his mark he let the young guns play and brought in his own supporting cast. Frank Wren is probably doing this same! The only problem is ,I don’t think this cast of young guns is quite as talented.
Anyway the season is close and I can smell baseball in the air!
By Poorbrave
February 7, 2009 6:42 PM | Link to this
Thanks Mr. Wren for looking forward to the future instead of returning to the past with A. Jones. I hope Glavine moves on, wishing him well.Now get that hitter for LF. Go Braves!
By N8
February 7, 2009 6:47 PM | Link to this
“Glavine - Offer him another 1.5 in incentives making it worth 3 Mil if he pitches 160 innings. With his experience, he would be one of the best #5s ever…….Ohman - Offer him 5 Mil over 2 years. He’s good against lefties and righties.. which is good since Bobby really doesn’t like Loogys.” Oromus
Let me get this correct. You’re gonna “only” give Glavine 3 million for his reaching 160 innings. But Ohman is to be given 2.5 million (58.2 innings last year), to be the 7th inning guy/situational lefty??
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 6:49 PM | Link to this
Salamander (5:09)
Largely agree, esp. with your final sentence.
Andruw’s basically saying that Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady are better players than he is now. (I certainly agree with that sentiment. Scott Boras apparently doesn’t — though he may not want to diss Nady, another of his clients.) Moreover, he’s saying that he doesn’t think he can beat out Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner for a spot on the Yankees roster.
Isn’t that something?
By BravesFanInRockies
February 7, 2009 6:53 PM | Link to this
As for Tommy G, whose 1995 baseball card is framed on my wall (alongside my World Series ticket), either he’s playing for the money or he isn’t.
William’s right. That’s a reasonable offer given Glavine’s age and his (very recent) injury history. A 40-something pitcher coming off two arm surgeries and who never had lightning stuff to begin with should have realistic expectations.
By Braveheart
February 7, 2009 6:56 PM | Link to this
Lew, I agree with you. My attitude is who cares, can he ball? I just threw that out there about Dick Allen because I came across it and found it interesting as it relates to the argument about Manny (even though it doesn’t support at all my stance on Manny …. or Dick Allen).
By Bobby's Cox
February 7, 2009 6:56 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies
Andruw wouldn’t have to shine and Cruz wouldn’t have to falter.
If AJ has any kind of resurgence, then Texas could trade Cruz for pitching.
The way i see it is the AL West is up for Texas’ grabs this year. They have the most profound lineup in that division, but their problem is the rotation.
The Braves, especially if they sign Glavine, will have a bunch of starters that could fit at the end of Texas’s rotation. Campillo, Morton, Reyes, Redmond, Parr, are all guys that could help Texas in some degree.
Texas may have an abundance of OF if Jones can turn it around, and I think their hitting coach will have better success than our did.
I’m just speculating. I’ve wanted the braves to make a move towards Cruz all offseason, and it’s probably more unlikely to happen now. Cruz had a killer Winter Ball season, and is cheap for a few more years I believe, while Andruw wouldn’t come cheap.
My mentioning of his name was more of a joke towards my persistence of the Braves inquiring about him all winter, as exemplified by my “wink”.
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 6:57 PM | Link to this
I just don’t think Andruw(or Boras) wants to set himself up to fail in New York. Texas is a little off the radar. Andruw may be able to gain some confidence in relative obscurity, and continue to play, if not as a regular, at least guy off the bench or a platoon player. Not a bad plan methinks!
By Jeff R
February 7, 2009 7:05 PM | Link to this
Good for Frank Wren. Given Glavine’s age, his coming off a serious injury and the fact that he seemed to have started to decline in the closing days of ‘06, Wren is being prudent. If Tommy wants more moola, then he needs to shop his talents elsewhere.
I’m one fan who also believes that Wren was right not to guarentee anything to Smoltz. The Bosox have a lot of dough and can afford to tender a guarenteed contract to John. If he doesn’t pitch, or doesn’t have his old effectiveness, they haven’t lost much in the deal. Not so the Braves.
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 7, 2009 7:13 PM | Link to this
Regarding Tom Glavine I am now livid. I’ve been a Braves fan since I was about 5 years old, watching them on TBS relentlessly since. I am 24 now and I was hoping that Tom would take this offer more or less to make up for his past mistake of going to the Mets. Last year he made $8 million dollars for 2 wins and a 6 ERA. “All things equal” if he takes this years offer and best case scenario wins 12 games that is 14 wins for $10 million dollars. Wren is taking a chance on the 43 year old here, giving him an opportunity to finish his career where he wants to. He didn’t have to do that.
After reading DOB’s article on Tom, I am now not a supporter of Tom unless he makes this right now. Yeah, you have offended me Glavine with a statement like this now: “I’m obviously in a very good place financially. I don’t need the money. But … there’s a price for everything. I don’t know how to say that without someone getting offended. In every business, there’s a price that makes it worthwhile.” Well, Tom, if you want to finish your career in Atlanta, take the petty $2 million and do it. Why don’t you take a lesson out of Chipper’s book and say something like, “$2 million is fair being that I am not a definite to be healthy, sure I feel good but nothing is guaranteed. I understand the Braves are strapped with money so I am taking a little less then I imagined so they can use that to finish the deal with Ohman and improve LF. I want to play for a strong winning team and I believe with those peices filled, we will have a great year in my last year and compete for the WS Championship.”
You all know darn well that is an ideal Chipper quote. Well, Tom, you mine as well have called that $2 million offer pathetic because after your quotes we now know that’s what you wish you could call it. Well if that’s not enough start talkin to other teams ‘cause we don’t want you back that bad. Go back to the Mets, they need a #5. The selfishness and ego are just angering! You made what $130+ Million. You need a couple more just to satisfy your ego Tom? Fine, get it somewhere else. That “petty couple million” is what gets us that veteran quality LH reliever and can make the difference in improving LF. Don’t want to take a little cut like Chipper, at 43 off two surgeries no less to improve the team? Fine, walk….
By Braves Fan80
February 7, 2009 7:15 PM | Link to this
It’s not on the ESPN, SI, Fox, or CBS sites. Is there another sourvce confirming a signing?
No there’s no source kirk. Andrew hasn’t signed with the Rangers, it’s just another piece of misinformation left uncorrected on this blog.As long as the right people say something it’s ok no matter how false.
By 18 Wheel s of Love
February 7, 2009 7:15 PM | Link to this
Bobby always defaults to the veteran when leaving camp. Last year Schafer played well and was sent down. Before that, James Jurries lit up camp, only to be sent down in favor of Brian Jordan. Mark Derosa, when handed the 3B gig, blew chunks in camp and was still given 3B to start the season. No pitching examples jump to mind but I am sure it is the same with pitchers. Bobby always seems to give the edge to the guys that have done it before, which is why I am glad they haven’t invited Andruw to camp!
By Chop Chop
February 7, 2009 7:16 PM | Link to this
It would be hilarious if the Braves low-balled Chipper on a contract offer. Is it possible that Frank Wren could disrespect three Hall of Famers in one season?
Oh, it is.
Hey! He could make it four HOFs if he tells Bobby to take a hike (I just have this feeling Bobby will want another year) after 2009.
(I’m voting for this scenario because the blog would be insane all year. Do it, Frank. Do it for the AJC. Page hits, man.)
By Bobby's Cox
February 7, 2009 7:17 PM | Link to this
of course it’s got great hitters, it’s one of the 2 or 3 the best hitter’s parks in America MobyGrape
Texas was number one in baseball last year in batting average, R, H, SLG, and 2nd in OBP.
If you want to downplay their offensive stats because of their home park, then look no further than their road splits.
On the road, Texas was 1st in Runs scored, 2B, & RBI, 3rd in SLG, Hits, and 4th overall in BA. That is, in 30 MLB teams.
They are no slouch offensively, even away from Arlington. They’re gonna be even better this year offensively with a full year of Chris Davis and Nelson Cruz. If their hitting coach can turn AJ around, that could make Cruz expendable for pitching…that is, if the Braves were really interested. Texas would still have Kinsler, Young, Hamilton, Davis, Murphy, 3 stud catchers, and possibly a rejuvented AJ in their outstanding power driven lineup.
Get my drift?
By dgd
February 7, 2009 7:22 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but a healty Glavine is worth way more than $2M. And if the rest is in incentives, what’s the risk to the Braves? If he stays healthy and is productive, then he makes a few million more, and if he’s not then he doesn’t. The man is a certain Hall of Famer and the best Atlanta Braves pitcher ever (Maddux won too many of his games elsewhere to qualify and I personally think he is better than Niekro, though it’s close.) He deserves the respect of a legitimate contract offer, and a contract with no incentives is not legitimate…
By Reality
February 7, 2009 7:23 PM | Link to this
I am happy that Wren is not the sentimental type. It is time for this team to move FORWARD. Andruw is done.
Wren may have helped the Braves dodge a big bullet in Andruw Jones. Cox was licking his chops at the thought of starting him everyday between April and June before pulling the plug.
By TexasBrave
February 7, 2009 7:24 PM | Link to this
kirkinga Here is one report on AJ with the Rangers
By dgd
February 7, 2009 7:30 PM | Link to this
Though if TG goes elsewhere, his most likely destination is Washinton, where I live and where Stan Kasten is President (though supposedly unhappy with the tight-fisted Lerners). It would be fun to watch him regularly, as we have season tickets. If TG were to sign with Washington, the Nationals could potentially have FOUR lefties in the rotation: TG, Scott Olsen, John Lannan, Odalis Perez (to go with Daniel Cabrera). Might give them a fighting chance vs. the Phils…….
By Bobby's Cox
February 7, 2009 7:31 PM | Link to this
braveheart
Nice post at 5:16. That’s all i care about too, can a player ball?
We’ve seen a few teams lately get in dugout brawls and make the W.S….the Rockies were last to do it.
Frankly, who cares about a players ‘tude. Earlier in the offseason when the cash was there, i wouldn’t have minded if the braves made a swipe at Manny if Manny could get them back to playing October ball.
All this talk about Escobar, etc… I like that he shows his emotion. There were about 5 times last year the braves should’ve retaliated and laid down like B**, starting with the Jacobs/Frenchy incident, continuing later in the year with Victorino. It’s like these guys don’t care, and they punish the ones that do (Esco).
It’s sad the braves were even thinking about trading esco because of his ‘tude. The guy can ball, so let the kid play.
By Doug
February 7, 2009 7:34 PM | Link to this
It’s kind of disturbing. The cover of the Braves page on the AJC Website talks about Hank Aaron’s 75th birthday. Class act, great ambassador of the game. The REAL HR King. I met him once when I was a kid and treasure the autograph he gave me. Also on that page we have Tom Glavine who, while admitting he doesn’t need the money, wasn’t thrilled by the Braves’ $1-2 million offer. This after making $8 million last season when he went 2-6, posted a 5-plus ERA, and went on the DL. Greatness vs. greed. Thanks AJC for painting a clear picture.
By kirkinga
February 7, 2009 7:39 PM | Link to this
ThanksTexasBrave and Braves Fan80, AJ hasn’t signed with the Rangers. That’s what I thought.
This interest in him from the Rangers is at least a week old, and mlbtraderumours says things have cooled down.
So why are people pretending he’s a Ranger?
Can I start pretending Abreu, Ohman, and Glavine are all Braves now and it’ll happen…lol?
By Random
February 7, 2009 7:42 PM | Link to this
DOB: “Ramirez jaked it with the Sox to get out of those option years, then flipped the switch and became Hall-of-Fame Manny again as soon as he got to L.A.”
Addle-pated and petty, malicious misrepresentation.
First, show me the stats (or any objective evidence) that might indicate that Manny “jaked it with the Sox”, for whatever reason. (I won’t point out again that there’s no reason to believe that YOU would know his motivation for anything.)
Second, why would you not expect increased performance from anyone moving from the way toughest division in MLB (AL East) to the way weakest (NL West)?
Third, who would not perform better for an organization that seemed to value their contribution rather than denigrate and devalue it?
Finally, it seems that Chavez Ravine is much better suited to Manny’s talents and capabilities than Fenway.
Per Baseball Analysts.com, from Apr thru Jun last year, Ramirez hit nineteen flyballs/line drives to CF-RF which would have been home runs in LA, but resulted only in fly outs (13), doubles (5) and a triple for Boston.
So if he’d been hitting for the Dodgers rather than for the Red Sox for all of 2008, he might have had 35* HRs before the trade (vice 20); he had 17 afterwards. No need for him to flip a switch — it was already stuck on “ON”.
*Four of his HRs with Boston would have been outs at Chavez Ravine.
By #1 Smoltz Fan
February 7, 2009 7:43 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies, McFann, TheVet, jtb
All good points, should not have skipped Chipper he is absolutely a great 3B.
jtb
My reference to putting fans in the stands is typically the Ted is not filled with season pass holders, or fans that go to every game. I was referencing the point that Andruw’s comeback could be so big of a story in teh national headlines that fans would be insprired to actually go to the games instead of watching them on TV.
Next IMO Andruw has had a few bad years, yes. But I cannot believe that Andruw has simply forgotten how to play the game. He used to field CF so effortlessly, it almost looked like he had a baseball magnet in the pocket of his glove. He played with so much energy and gave up his body to catch one fly ball, this is the reason I feel that he is destined to have a season similiar to the ‘07 Andruw. If he even comes close to being a servicable outfielder defensively it will be all the talk of baseball esp. with all the hype around his decline and the Dodgers releasing him.
Lastly I am not saying that Wren “owes” Andruw anything, just that he needs to show a little compasion for the guys he fields the diamond with. You talk to the players and hear how much they praise Bobby Cox and most will reference at some point that he is all about the players, but I will bet most players will never see FWren, much less feel that he gives 2 $!& about them as people. Wren has shown that he is all about the business and he is not very good at that.
I am definitely not one that has alot respect on this board, nor can I claim to have the knowledge of 90% of the posters here (there is alot of Baseball brilliance on this Blog), but I think in regards to Andruw you have to look at the bigger picture, something just does not add up.
Last point someone earlier stated that Bobby Cox is pushing for Andruw coming back more than most in the Braves organization……WHAT??? The manager is pushing to bring him back and there is question?? Especially when that manager is Bobby Cox??? If Bobby Cox is pushing for Andruw to return, and Andrus is only looking for a reasonable Big League offer,,,,what is the problem, there should be no further question, 1 year 1.5M big league offer and put him on the bench if he does not cut it! This is not rocket science, there is little to no risk (roster spot and 1/90th of the overall ‘09 payroll) with potential benefits that have no limits.
If Benefits outweigh the risks, you go for it! But Wren has to big of an ego to let that happen.
You cannot give Wren credit for bringing Lowe, he just went down the list of FA rankings and got rejected by everyone of the top 3….and had no choice but try for #4. Vazquez IMO was probably Bobby’s call (I think he has wanted the kid for 4 or 5 years now), and I dont know about KK but gut tells me Wren didnt pull that off either.
I AM obviously NOT a WREN fan,,,but I think my arguments are sound for bringing Andruw back, let him prove himself then sign him to a lifer contract at the end of the year,,,but no ANDRUW WILL BE A RANGER then the Braves will try and make him an offer in ‘10 and he will laugh as he signs with the Yankees for 10 years 100M.
By DAP
February 7, 2009 7:44 PM | Link to this
the braves could sign ray durham for real cheap and move kelley to left field (or mybe even make duham play there.) dude hasnt had an offer this offseason, and other than the stolen bases, has similar offensive stats to brian roberts. similar to orlando hudson, in that he is a switch hitter with good OBP and not alot of power.
some folks here have kicked around moveing kellt back to left for roberts or hudson, but not durham. just throwing it out there.
By kirkinga
February 7, 2009 7:45 PM | Link to this
All this talk about Escobar, etc… I like that he shows his emotion. There were about 5 times last year the braves should’ve retaliated and laid down like B, starting with the Jacobs/Frenchy incident, continuing later in the year with Victorino. It’s like these guys don’t care, and they punish the ones that do (Esco).**
Amen, Bobby’s Cox, Escobar hopefully will outlast the element on the team that can’t deal with the passion he brings to the game. Reading how people talk down Escobar because of his emotion, I often wonder if Pete Rose could play for this team? I remember seeing him play as a little kid and he was very passionate.
By Bobby's Cox
February 7, 2009 8:03 PM | Link to this
1 Smotlz FanI think you’re missing the point. You say Wren has no compassion towards the organization’s hey’day players, and you somehow translate that to mean Wren has no compassion towards his players and/or the fans.
I think you’re wrong. I think Wren has compassion to the minor league kids that have worked hard to get a chance to play at the big league level. I think Wren is showing compassion by putting a team that can win on the field, and to me, that translates into compassion for the fans.
Wren was livid when Furcal (ex-braves) spurned him. Did you forget that? There’s a fine line between marketing (i.e. getting players that fans are fans of and then spending $$ attending games to see them play), and getting unfamiliar players that can win you games. In my sports marketing classes, the #1 thing that draws ticket sales in sports, is winning, and Wren is simply trying to build a team that can win.
Wren has done pretty well IMO of assessing the stages players are at in their careers and making tough decisions to build a less risky team without them. That to me shows me compassion.
I’d be more p’oed with an organization that just signs players to get butts in seats to turn a team profitable without any regard towards winning. The braves for the past 3 years have been making moves to get back into the playoffs. They’ve made dumb moves in doing so (Drew for Wainwright, Texiera, Kotsay for Devine), but at least their making the moves with the right frame of mind…
You can question the moves, but not the motive, and the fact is, the Braves are going to spend every dollar of the funds they said they had available to spend, in a down market mind you….
So I ask you, why are you upset????
By Tomahawkin
February 7, 2009 8:06 PM | Link to this
**Wazup All, I just moved Back to Atlanta from Arkansas…Where are the best bars/clubs in Atlanta…?
And what are the best bars to watch the braves games?**
Oh yea, I’m around the Fayetteville/Pchtree City vincinity
As for the team, Unless we add another big bopper to our weak outfield Corps, we will not compete, I would not be suprised if the Marlins post a better record this year…
As it stands right now we don’t have the big bats nor the team speed to hang with the Big Boyz (New York and Philly)
By Moaty
February 7, 2009 8:18 PM | Link to this
So Tom is disappointed at what the Braves offered him! I have no problems offering him an incentive laden contract - but absolutely NOTHING guaranteed. I will not forget Tom leaving for NY for more quid. He knows it’s a business - he’s a union guy and the table turned on him as it does for every athlete.
One question though. Did Smoltz cotnact Wren after Boston made their offer to give them a chance to match?
By AdirondackDave
February 7, 2009 8:30 PM | Link to this
I’ve been a big fan of Glavine but when he sounds a little “put out” by a 1-2M offer after last season and a dismal ending for the Mets ‘07 season, well I say let him retire or pitch elsewhere. The Braves have plenty of young possibilities for the 5-slot who he would be blocking. Put the money into Ohman or an outfielder than can hit.
By Wayne in Utah
February 7, 2009 8:32 PM | Link to this
Random Is it not surprising to you that there are three people on the face of the earth who thinks Manny has been misrepresented in all of this. You are one, Manny is the second one, and there is an old lady down the street who thinks he has been victimized also, but nobody gives a crap what she thinks cause she is Manny’s mom.
Even Scott Boras knows the truth. Heck, he orchestrated the whole blow up this past summer to get a pay day.
Wouldn’t it be poetic justice if Manny turned down all offers this winter, and just sat out the season!
As the Manny saga grows longer, the smile on my face grows wider and wider.
Tom Glavine You left us for a marginal increase in salary last time. You came back, and most of us forgived you. Time to put up or shut up.
If you have a decent year this year, then next year you can probably parlay that into some more money. If money is not the object, prove it and sign the danged contract.
DAP I don’t think Durham is half the second baseman that KJ is today. He would be a good bench player though. If we move Prado in a deal to get a left fielder, maybe he might be considered. Right now we are a bit heavy on the bench.
By Salamander
February 7, 2009 8:41 PM | Link to this
You cannot give Wren credit for bringing Lowe, he just went down the list of FA rankings and got rejected by everyone of the top 3….and had no choice but try for #4. Vazquez IMO was probably Bobby’s call (I think he has wanted the kid for 4 or 5 years now), and I dont know about KK but gut tells me Wren didnt pull that off either.
I AM obviously NOT a WREN fan,,,but I think my arguments are sound for bringing Andruw back, let him prove himself then sign him to a lifer contract at the end of the year,,,but no ANDRUW WILL BE A RANGER then the Braves will try and make him an offer in ‘10 and he will laugh as he signs with the Yankees for 10 years 100M. *#1 Smoltz Fan *
Wren got rejected by the top 3 FAs? The Braves weren’t after the top 2 (Tex and CC) - only Burnett.
Wren wasn’t a huge part of the reason that the first Japanese player in Braves’ history signed with Atlanta? He has been talking about the organization’s increasing sphere of influence in Japan for months now - I’m pretty sure Wren was an integral part of that negotiation.
You think Andruw is going to rebound to the tune of $100 million over 10 years after this season? Let me clue you in - Andruw Jones has peaked. I breathed a sigh of relief when the Braves let him walk after 2007, and then his hitting skills fell off a cliff in 2008. Maybe Andruw has a solid 2009 for the Rangers, or whoever he ends up signing with, but I doubt he will be a star again at this point in his career.
By Dadgum
February 7, 2009 8:59 PM | Link to this
Chuck James…your 7:13 post on Glavine is right on the mark. Exactly what Glavine is mulling over is perhaps retirement. Maybe he doesn’t like the money but the Braves are being generous.
The Braves could care less about his HOF credentials at this juncture. He is being given the chance to pitch at Dark Star under a MLB contract. Not exactly sure what he was expecting but he is getting more than I would have given him. I guess Glavine will make a decision in the next few days but in any case the Braves will be just fine without him. Maybe better.
Rock on…..
By Salty Dawg
February 7, 2009 9:08 PM | Link to this
#1 Smoltz Fan
No offense intended, but you’re living in fantasy land. You really think Andruw returning to Atlanta is going to bring the fans out to the ol’ ballpark? Where were the fans when Andruw was here before??? Bringing back AJ isn’t going to inspire fans, especially if he stinks up the joint like he has shown a propensity to do over the last 2 years. No reasonable GM in baseball is going to give him a major league contract given recent history. He has proven that his career is on the downturn and that he isn’t willing to do what it takes to remedy the situation, which is why he doesn’t want to take a minor league deal. He doesn’t want to have to do what it takes to earn a spot on the roster.
As far as Glavine goes, I was heartbroken when he left the Braves. I felt a lot like I felt when Smoltz left. But he was dead to me the minute he signed with the Mets. I thought it was a mistake bringing him back the first time and am still not convinced that he should be re-signed. If he is willing to take the offered contract, great. Veteran pitcher that we shouldn’t expect much out of except a presence in the clubhouse. If he thinks he should be getting more, let him go get it elsewhere.
By Lew
February 7, 2009 9:14 PM | Link to this
Drive By Truckers are on Austin City Limits tonight (at least up here in GlacierLand)-just in case anyone might be interested.
By nolie
February 7, 2009 9:18 PM | Link to this
confusion probably stemmed from fact she was nominated for best supporting actress (for some unknown reason) for the same role by SAG, Golden Globes and someone else. Obviously Oscars got this one right — it’s not a supporting role, in any sense. DOB
the initial Oscar push by her camp was for Supporting Actress, perhaps with the hope of a dual nomination as Best Actress in her other film. The earlier Award Ceremonies went with that but the Oscars chose to nominate her as BA in The Reader.
By Dadgum
February 7, 2009 9:25 PM | Link to this
Just throwing this out there….why wouldn’t the Braves extend an offer to Andruw after just giving a reclamation project like Glavine at 43 years old close to 2 mil. What if he justs turns this thing around? His defense alone on his worst days is better than Abreu or Dunn. Throw in the fact he would come about 5 mil cheaper than either of the above or similar type players.
I understand Andruw has hit bottom but there have been many stories of pro athletes resurrecting their careers. Remember that Kurt Warner guy. Spring training is the perfect time to take a flyer on Andruw. If he looks great in Dark Star you have a steal if not well you really haven’t lost anything.
Rock on…….
By Lou Vales
February 7, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this
Sheets is undergoing elbow surgery. Maybe this stuff isn’t collusion after all. Also hearing in S. Florida that Madonna and Mrs. A Roid will both vouch that he NEVER used performance enhancement ANYTHING. Mrs. Roid was heard muttering at South Beach restauranr that “If he used anything, both me and The Material Girl should get the money back.”
By DAP01
February 7, 2009 9:46 PM | Link to this
Andruw: We love you but your hard stubbornness is the reason no one really wants to invest in you. Clue in, you are not above anything.
Glavine: Don’t complain, make your choice. We love you, we can certainly could use a healty you, but we will be fine without you.
By Moby Grape
February 7, 2009 10:01 PM | Link to this
They are no slouch offensively, even away from Arlington. They’re gonna be even better this year offensively with a full year of Chris Davis and Nelson Cruz. If their hitting coach can turn AJ around, that could make Cruz expendable for pitching…that is, if the Braves were really interested. Texas would still have Kinsler, Young, Hamilton, Davis, Murphy, 3 stud catchers, and possibly a rejuvented AJ in their outstanding power driven lineup BobbysC
Yeah they have a good offense bolstered by the best hitters park in MLB last season, and still can’t get a whiff of a World Series. Shows how little offense by itself matters and why the Braves and now Wren have always gone the pitching route as they did again this off-season.
By brewdawg
February 7, 2009 10:03 PM | Link to this
I like Wren less and less with every lowball offer he makes to Brave legends. He’s made some good moves too, don’t get me wrong, he just really rubs me the wrong way. Not that he cares what I think, because I blog that means I’m not the average sports fan.
Forgive me if I missed this, but in all this Oscar talk… Rourke has to be best actor right. Granted I haven’t seen the other performances… but that was one of the greatest performances I’ve ever seen. Rank it up there close to Edward Norton’s performance in American History X (don’t get me started on how he wasn’t even nominated).
By monty
February 7, 2009 10:32 PM | Link to this
I can’t see Glavine outpiching Campillo. He would be nice to have but at 2 mil. I don’t think I’m buying.
By Dadgum
February 7, 2009 10:38 PM | Link to this
Drive-By Truckers are on Austin City Limits tonight. Unfortunately it airs at 1:00am here in Richmond. Their song “Righteous Path” from last year’s ACL is on teh ACL website. Good song that sounds great.
Rock on…..
By TheAntiMe
February 7, 2009 10:53 PM | Link to this
So Tom Glavine thinks he’s got the most upside out of Jorge Campillo, Charlie Morton, or Tommy Hanson? I hate to break it to you Tommy, but you haven’t had any upside potential for at least 3 years now.
I fully appreciate all of the achievements that Glavine has accomplished in the past for the Bravos but I disagree with his assertion that he is the best option at 5th starter for the Braves.
If he were go through spring training and pitch more effectively than the other pitchers that he mentioned, then sure, he would definitely deserve the spot as 5th starter.
However, I don’t believe that he should feel like he is entitled to the last rotation spot simply by virtue of the fact that he is Tom Glavine. He certainly would not have liked it had he been unfairly passed over for a starting spot as a rookie for some veteran pitcher - even a Hall of Fame candidate - just trying to hold on.
I wish you well in spring training, Tommy, as well as in 2009. Hopefully, you will make a full recovery as you will always be one of my favorite Braves players. Thanks again.
(OK, let the flaming begin.)
By cvbraves
February 7, 2009 11:08 PM | Link to this
Can’t understand why there are so many folks that think Mr. Wren hasn’t done a great job this year.
Braves will have a starting rotation of Lowe, Jair, Vazquez, Glavine and Kawakami. (5)
Bullpen will be Gonzales, Soriano, Moylan, Ohman, Boyer, Bennett, Logan and Carlyle or Stockman or Acosta. (8)
Outfield will be Jeff in RF, Josh or Andruw in CF (if he wins a roster spot in ST), and Swisher in LF. (3)
Infield will be Chipper at 3B, Yunel at SS, Kelly at 2B, and Casey at 1B. (4)
Bench will be Norton, Infante, Ross, Diaz, and either Andruw or Josh. (5) Total: (25).
Opening day batting order (against Phillies and LHP Hamels will be: Kelly, Yunel, Chipper, Swisher, BMac, Jeff, Casey, Josh/Andruw, Lowe.
Braves will contend and make the playoffs.
Great lineup, great job by Mr. Wren.
By cvbraves
February 7, 2009 11:19 PM | Link to this
Add previous. Forgot to mention that Gwinnett Braves starting rotation will be: Hanson, Medlen, JoJo, Morton and Rohrbrough.
By Dan
February 7, 2009 11:23 PM | Link to this
Campillo this past was a near-30 rookie who spent most of his career in the Mexican league and turned into a pumpkin the last month or two of the season when the league figured him out. Campillo’s first half, in my opinion, was a Jorge Sosa-esque fluke.
Campillo’s combined ERA in August and September 2008 was 5.93.
In conclusion, I believe a one-year deal for Glavine is probably a good idea as long as it doesn’t financially prevent trading for Swisher.
By Canadianbrave
February 7, 2009 11:26 PM | Link to this
TheAntiMe
I think if Tom Glavine feels that he is the best available option for the 5th starter spot, then he probably is. I’ve never known him to be pompous or a braggart, and I’m sure that he has pitched long enough to be aware of his own ability. I don’t think he would want to look the fool at this point in his career. I think he just realizes that injuries have played a role in his perceived decline and if healthy, he has the skill set to be effective. I’m sure if you are 20 something, he seems like an old man at 42 or 43, but he is an athlete, and I think he has taken care of himself over the years.
It seems that just prior to his decline , he had become a smarter pitcher and had sort of re-invented himself. Even Smoltz had commented on his command on the mound.
I think what Tommy has to mull over is his own personal pride. Will he accept what he knows is less than he is worth on the market, to stay with the Braves. You can be sure that there are all sorts of memories and personal issues involved in this decision, about which only Tom and his family are aware.
He is a great pitcher, arguably one of the best 5 left handers ever. When I look at the Brave’s staff this year, if they ever made it to the world series, I think I would still go with a healthy Glavine to pitch that deciding 7th game. Wouldn’t you??
By TheAntiMe
February 7, 2009 11:35 PM | Link to this
“I thought politics weren’t allowed on this blog?Why is it TheAntiMe can post that jingoistic piece of propaganda and no one calls him out on it? Yet when someone, I forget who, and it’s been several times, dares to call out the blantant hard right bias of this blog people can’t wait to tell s/he to shut the heck up? If moderates and liberals can’t say things on here without being called out, then the same should go for people who post crap from the overtly racist Charlie Daniels. This is a baseball blog right?” - Because It Matters
Wow, Because It Matters, my post that you have such a problem with was a light-hearted musical response to a previous post by proeye and there was no political intent, whatsoever. I don’t do politics.
I suppose you may be new to the BravesBlog, so I should probably inform you that not only do we discuss the Braves and baseball, in general, but we also discuss entertainment, including bands, songs movies, and thespians, as well.
Please leave the political BS at home because life is too short to be drinking that “haterade” of yours. Oh yeah, have a nice weekend.
By Hank Williams Sr
February 7, 2009 11:40 PM | Link to this
cvbraves,
There is no shot in hell that Rohrbough is in AAA.
Medlen may not even be a starter.
By Canadianbrave
February 8, 2009 12:02 AM | Link to this
TheAntiMe
Don’t worry about it I’ve been shredded so many times on this blog that if I took it personally I’d be emotionally devastated by now!
By Joe
February 8, 2009 12:11 AM | Link to this
I hope Tom Glavine turns the offer GM Frank Wren gave to him.
Tom Glavine made 8 million last year and went 2-5 and missed most of the season we don’t need him.
By Roman Gal
February 8, 2009 12:16 AM | Link to this
cvbraves,
Hank Williams Sr. is right that Rohrbough won’t be starting the year in AAA. He’ll probably start in A+, maybe AA if he has a really really good spring. If the Braves sign Glavine, then we’ll probably be looking at a Gwinnett rotation of Hanson, Jo-Jo, Morton, and Redmond. Those seem like more sure things than any other possibilities. Then you throw in guys like Duente Heath and James Parr.
It’ll be interesting what the Braves decide to do with Medlen. He had a lot of success in the rotation last year, but all accounts point to him being a reliever. We’ll see.
By TheAntiMe
February 8, 2009 12:18 AM | Link to this
Canadianbrave
Thanks, Braves bud, me too. That one just sort of surprised me a little because I wasn’t even trying to jerk anyone’s chain. However, people aren’t always appreciative of my sense of humor, but that’s cool too.
By Areopagus
February 8, 2009 12:29 AM | Link to this
I want to make it very clear what I do not intend to do in this post before I carry on with what I do wish to accomplish with it. Let me get to the crux of the matter: I overheard one of O’Brien’s lickspittles say, “We should all bear the brunt of David O’Brien’s actions.” This quotation demonstrates the might of language as it epitomizes the “us/them” dichotomy within hegemonic discourse. As for me, I prefer to use language to let DOB know, in no uncertain terms, that his fabulous success is not firmly connected with meritorious ability. His protests are so moonstruck that they are easily taken up and assimilated by interventionism-oriented Moors, whose intellectual level corresponds to the material offered. That concept can be extended, mutatis mutandis, to the way that it’s maledicent for O’Brien to waste taxpayers’ money. Or perhaps I should say, it’s impolitic.
I refuse to kowtow to David O’Brien’s shambolic cult. To cap that off, I don’t care what others say about DOB. He’s still stentorian, sniffish, and he intends to give people a new and largely artificial basis for evaluating things and making decisions. When I hear him say that his blogs prevent smallpox, I have to wonder about him. Is he utterly malicious? Is he simply being anti-democratic? Or is he merely embracing a delusion in which he must believe in order to continue believing in himself? As you ponder the answer to such a question, consider that if my own experience has taught me anything, it’s that when a friend says he will drive inebriated, you try to stop him. Well, DOB is drunk with power, which is why we must take the mechanisms, ideology, and phraseology for determining what is right and what is wrong out of the hands of him and his trained seals and put them back in the hands of ordinary people like Thomas Stinson. To summarize my views: A recent fact-finder’s report revealed that the cliches of David O’Brien’s tirades are well-known to us all.
By Steve McP
February 8, 2009 12:44 AM | Link to this
Missed most of the DBT set on Austin City Limits, but did like the performance of Ryan Bingham - good gritty songs
By TheAntiMe
February 8, 2009 12:51 AM | Link to this
rotfl - It looks like you got yourself a real fan there, DOB.
By Steve McP
February 8, 2009 12:55 AM | Link to this
Areopagus - a strange reference to the courts of Greece.
I don;t know whom you are trying to hold to account, or indeed for what you are holding them for.
Please explain
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 12:58 AM | Link to this
I was told tonight that the earlier information about Glavine’s contract was slightly incorrect, in that he can make $3 mill if he stays healthy. (Not a great deal more than reported originally, but a bit more). Don’t know if that means 20 starts, 30 starts, or what, but that’s what I was told by someone who knows. The base salary is quite low, somewhere between $1 mill and $2 mill…..
Just got back from Patton Oswalt show at The EARL. Seriously, that dude might be the funniest standup comic going right now. I was in pain from laughing so much. Hilarious. And it was all new material he was working on tonight….
Ryan Bingham and DBT were both on Austin City Limits? Damn, why didn’t someone give us ample notice to set the DVRs. Hopefully I can find that somewhere online or on the ol’ OnDemand or something, but I’m doubting it….
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 1:01 AM | Link to this
oh, and THIS JUST IN: Braves are no longer pursuing Will Ohman, according to what I was told tonight by someone who is very much in the know. Don’t know when decision was made or why, but they’re not pursuing the Lebowski lefty.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 1:03 AM | Link to this
Areopagus: Awesome post at 12:29 a.m. I couldn’t have said it better. (Actually, I couldn’t have said it nearly as well.)
By jed
February 8, 2009 1:16 AM | Link to this
i see a lot of support on here for acquiring swisher, and mlbrumors says the braves are the front-runners to get him. could someone please explain why we’d want him? didnt we have a guy hit .220 for us back in ‘07 that few of you want us to re-sign? on top of that, we’d be giving up talent for him. why not just sign abreu for a year? he’s a safer bet, you give up nothing to get him, and you’re not locked into a longterm deal.
By joe fan
February 8, 2009 1:20 AM | Link to this
I wonder if the braves not going after Ohman any longer means they are about to take on a large contract via free agency or a trade. Maybe they have found that outfield bat?
By jed
February 8, 2009 1:29 AM | Link to this
as for glavine, a low base salary with an incentive-laden contract would make sense for the braves, and should make sense for glavine. i’m thinking 1.5 mil with the chance to make up to 5 million. he got free money last year; this year, he should have to earn it. if he’s okay with that, welcome him back; if not, he can go elsewhere.
By Anders
February 8, 2009 1:41 AM | Link to this
DOB
Anything at all from the inside on this whole A-Rod deal? It’s everywhere up here. Lead story on every news channel etc…
Sounds like you communicated with a number of folks today on other Brave matters - certainlt the A-Rod matter had to come up?
By PWHjort
February 8, 2009 2:01 AM | Link to this
DOB, Have you spoken with anybody else about the Ohman situation or just the 1 source?
By KC
February 8, 2009 2:11 AM | Link to this
That sucks about Ohman. I was hoping to see him back here. It will suck even more if he winds up in NY or Phili.
I just wrote a bullpen piece (“Braves Bullpen Ready For Better Luck”) for BravesBlast.com. If you’re interested… http://www.bravesblast.com/
By uga-brave
February 8, 2009 2:26 AM | Link to this
kinda funnny that our new g.m. answered so fast after losing smoltz.
within days we had the donger and lowe.
we need the glav back. i have zero faith in wren.
he is reactionary. not a proactive.
oh by the way the atlanta spirit sux.
rut seydell has ruined the thrashers.
so you know rut seydell is ted’s son in law.
rut is married to the former laura turner.
the atlanta spirit is a embarassment.
no one wants to work under their constaints.
By Wilson
February 8, 2009 2:28 AM | Link to this
I know its kinda splitting hairs, but by no longer pursuing Ohman, does that mean they’ve withdrawn the offer they made earlier this offseason, or does it mean that the offer still stands but its more of a take it or leave it type thing?
By uga-brave
February 8, 2009 3:01 AM | Link to this
wilson,
i think it means they think that any left hander can people out.
ohman pitched really well.
new times in the atl.
we are now the pirates, or the reds.
remember chis hammonds, or certain other pitchers that re- invented themselves?
darren holmes?
the bullpen is the bullpen.
at least there is no more kerry ligtenberg?
remember that guy?
By Original Jon
February 8, 2009 4:24 AM | Link to this
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, no longer chasing Ohman and a low offer to Glavine, sounds to me like the Braves are about to get their Left Fielder.
By mitchie-san
February 8, 2009 5:42 AM | Link to this
Me thinks Abreu is about to sign, hence the low ball offer to Glavine and the “no longer pursuing” of Ohman….
By mitchie-san
February 8, 2009 5:45 AM | Link to this
Oh, after the Abreu signing, make that trade for Swisher. Outfield and line up is set. So is the rotation and bullpen. PLAY BALL!
By JC from UT
February 8, 2009 6:16 AM | Link to this
DOB Has there been any contact made between the Braves and the agent of Bobby Abreu? And if other sources are saying the Braves or in on Swisher/Nady what are the Yankees asking?
By Gibby
February 8, 2009 6:27 AM | Link to this
I have been an Arod hater since he showed his true colors and wormed his way out of Texas. But this has me bummed. I know I was naive but I was truly hoping we were past the superstars getting trashed for cheating. Few names in baseball could have tarnished the whole season. Arod’s is at the top of the list. Now we will hear about this from the New York dominated media all season long.
By slugger
February 8, 2009 6:35 AM | Link to this
REGARDING STEROIDS:
If you want to know, just ask. I sure know a lot of pro ball players that took steroids. I’ll tell you one little teaser… out of the 30 or so teammates of mine that were drafted, 80% took steroids.
Matt Groening hit steroids on the head (literally) a long time ago, folks.
http://www.singaporesoxfan.com/images/gigantism.jpg
Remember when Ken Griffey got ‘Giganticism’ in the Simpsons episode? He was on Homer’s baseball team.
A-Rod, Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Magglio Ordonez… all huge. All pretty big guys… I don’t think they are bad people for ‘possibly’ juicing, and I think that many fans are more p** at themselves than the players (if you search a little deeper).
I think fans outwardly display disgust towards these guys that used perf. drugs because fans buried those subtle thoughts over the years like ” holy f&&k, that guy looks like a professional wrestler. What a great workout routine they must have!”
I never juiced in my playing career because I didn’t want my heart to explode. Definitely wouldn’t have hurt my draft stock, though. In the long run, few players play past 35-40 (including MILB) so there’s a lot of life to live after baseball. Some, though, do take the risk.
You can pretty much guess which players did and didn’t take steroids. Don’t go easy on the pitchers. A lot of those guys are far more jacked and strong than you know. Most pro athletes are. If only NBA players would do steroids ,we could have a real life NBA JAM.
When you talk about Braves players and you still express doubt whether or not some guys have EVER used performance enhancing drugs, you diplay this same sense of naivity that everyone shared before Canseco/McGwire/Bonds. You accept it to be false because you choose to believe in innocence. Pictures are the best evidence.
I’m not naive enough to give players from the 20s to the late 70s full benefit of the doubt. I’m sure those guys used whatever they could to get them through the season and to find whatever edge possible.
I can’t listen to the steroid witch hunt anymore until fans actually realize that just about every darn player in the MLB has at least experimented with performance enhancing drugs. The players lied to you, but don’t continue to lie to yourself.
Hopefully 2010-2020 generation of baseball brings back the closed stances, moustaches and cocaine that marred baseball in the late 70s/80s.
There will always be something.
By T2daD
February 8, 2009 6:35 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, How long have I got to balance this D@NM beach ball on my nose before you throw me a fish? Natalie Cole says don’t be offended, the kids love you, dream.
By ncgary
February 8, 2009 7:11 AM | Link to this
steroids have been a problem for at least 3 decades that i know of, in the late 70;s early 80’s military was full of roids rage, probably a few baseballers then were experimenting too
By TheAntiMe
February 8, 2009 7:25 AM | Link to this
The revelation that virtually all of baseball’s greatest players of the past dozen or so years were unfairly racking-up their gawdy numbers due to steroids and other PEDs should make the BBWAA show a lot more respect and consideration for the great players of the previous i.e. steroid-free generation of baseball when judging these players for entry into the Hall of Fame.
Deserving players such as Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson have been unfairly judged as they have been shunned, basically because their numbers did not compare favorably to the steroid-inflated numbers of the great players of baseball’s now forever infamous steroid era.
By William
February 8, 2009 7:47 AM | Link to this
It’s kind of disturbing. The cover of the Braves page on the AJC Website talks about Hank Aaron’s 75th birthday. Class act, great ambassador of the game. The REAL HR King. I met him once when I was a kid and treasure the autograph he gave me. Also on that page we have Tom Glavine who, while admitting he doesn’t need the money, wasn’t thrilled by the Braves’ $1-2 million offer. This after making $8 million last season when he went 2-6, posted a 5-plus ERA, and went on the DL. Greatness vs. greed. Thanks AJC for painting a clear picture.
EXACTLY!!!! Couldn’t agree more!
By ncgary
February 8, 2009 7:48 AM | Link to this
lyle alzado was one of the first non professional wrestling athletes to break the steroid scandal when he died in what many speculated was related to steroid abuse. hes the first real newstory i remember that related to the trajedy that results from abuse
By William
February 8, 2009 7:49 AM | Link to this
AntiMe I like your 7:25am post. Couldn’t agree more!
By TheAntiMe
February 8, 2009 8:21 AM | Link to this
Thanks much, William, I definitely agree that Hank Aaron is the honest and true HR King and it now looks like he will be for another generation. At least until someone clean can hit more HRs than “The Hammer”.
Without a doubt, Hank Aaron is a hero, in every sense of the word.
By Random
February 8, 2009 8:27 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah: “Is it not surprising to you that there are three people on the face of the earth who thinks Manny has been misrepresented in all of this. You are one, Manny is the second one, and there is an old lady down the street who thinks he has been victimized also, but nobody gives a crap what she thinks cause she is Manny’s mom.”
Funny. Reminiscent of flange1’s “3 people”. Nice extension of that theme.
Seriously — funny.
Although you misunderestimate the Ramirez backers both here (Anders, Canadianbrave, getnathan, Mitchie-san, among many others) and elsewhere.
WiU: “Even Scott Boras knows the truth. Heck, he orchestrated the whole blow up this past summer to get a pay day.”
So which is it — do you hate Ramirez, the “dupe”, or do you hate Boras, his manipulating “Svengali”?
WiU: “Wouldn’t it be poetic justice if Manny turned down all offers this winter, and just sat out the season!”
Well, sure — yeah! “With liberty and (poetic) justice for all!!!”
Provided only that you hate the player more than you love the game.
That’s all it takes.
By Efrim
February 8, 2009 8:39 AM | Link to this
Original Jon and mitchie-san,
I agree with your earlier posts. I mean, the Braves are going to spend the that 6-7 million, right?
By T2daD
February 8, 2009 8:42 AM | Link to this
Man O’ War wanted to turn states evidence on ‘roids long ago, alas there was no horse whisperer.
By Random
February 8, 2009 8:47 AM | Link to this
TheAntiMe: “The revelation that virtually all of baseball’s greatest players of the past dozen or so years were unfairly racking-up their gawdy numbers due to steroids and other PEDs should make the BBWAA show a lot more respect and consideration for the great players of the previous i.e. steroid-free generation of baseball when judging these players for entry into the Hall of Fame… . Deserving players such as Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson have been unfairly judged as they have been shunned, basically because their numbers did not compare favorably to the steroid-inflated numbers of the great players of baseball’s now forever infamous steroid era.”
You are drastically overstating your case. And, imo, you are flat out wrong.
To my knowledge, the vast majority of the HoF voters compare candidates to their peers and predecessors (especially those already in the HoF), NOT their successors.
Rightly or wrongly, Murphy and Dawson have not made the HoF because they are perceived as not sufficiently dominating their era, not ours.
There is no need for girlish, vicarious outrage in this case (HoF voting).
William, **TheAntiMe — so I assume that it does not disturb you that Aaron routinely used amphetamines?
One chemical is “moral” and another is “immoral”, depending on how well they work? If it works too well, it must be from the Devil?
Please.
By proeye
February 8, 2009 9:03 AM | Link to this
If anyone ever paid any attention to my posts, you would see why the Braves don’t want to pursue Ohman. ;-)
There is no way they are going to pay more than $3 million let alone $2 million per year for a middle relief pitcher. It’s bad enough they are paying Soriano $2.65 million, but I figure that Braves Management considers him a closer of sorts (if Gonzalez goes down).
This is ridiculous. You can’t put together a rag tag team of relief pitchers and get by. This has been the Braves achillies heal for more than 18 years: Great starters and so-so bullpen. To think that nowadays since pitchers don’t go more than 6 innings, why do they continue this philosophy of ‘getting by’ with those two innings sandwiched in-between the starter and closer??? I realize that Soriano and Moylan are still on the staff, but there is NO guaranty either one will be effective for their first 6 months after their respective surgeries. And I don’t care what happens in spring training either. There is a big difference between what one pitcher does in spring vs. when it really counts during the season. I can name a half a dozen pitchers from last year who pooped out once it counted.
They have let Mahay and Dotel go and now Ohman. It’s very odd. I know the team has to “save money” somewhere but let’s not sacrifice the bull pen. As it stands right now, there is a huge drop off after the big three—especially in the lefthander department. It’s really too bad that they couldn’t hang on to Ohman at least for one more season until Soriano and Moylan get back to 100%. It’s not like the Braves can’t make a trade to a contender midway through the season to save on payroll. I would think of the $4 million as insurance.
By Joey
February 8, 2009 9:08 AM | Link to this
Just once, I would like to see a rich athlete in Glavine’s situation just say, “You know, The Braves didn’t get their money’s worth last season with me, so I’ll take any offer you give me this season.” I’m not holding my breath, though.
By Random
February 8, 2009 9:10 AM | Link to this
A breath of fresh air, courtesy of the slugger.
Thanks!
Areopagus — I think we’re all still waiting for you “to make it very clear what [you] do not intend to do in this post” — or make anything at all clear, for that matter.
Why don’t you take your vile racism (“interventionism-oriented Moors, whose intellectual level corresponds to the material offered”) and just leave?
By proeye
February 8, 2009 9:11 AM | Link to this
If incentives brings up Tom Glavine’s salary to $3 million then he should take it. If we know that he knows this, then why is he still pondering this? He has had this contract sitting in front of him for days now. 1) It’s better than nothing and the Braves have shown they want him back so the respect is there, 2) he knows the market isn’t that great this year—especially to those pitchers coming back from surgery and who are soon to be 43, and 3) he has already said it’s not about the money.
Come on, Tom, knock off the posturing, and let’s get to playing baseball. The Braves paid you a ton of money during your career and you abandoned them a few years back. YOU got injured last year and was also paid a heck of a lot again. Therefore, you owe us one. ;-)
By proeye
February 8, 2009 9:12 AM | Link to this
Joey… My sentiments exactly.
By TheAntiMe
February 8, 2009 9:16 AM | Link to this
“To my knowledge, the vast majority of the HoF voters compare candidates to their peers and predecessors (especially those already in the HoF), NOT their successors.” - Random
To think that previous players are not compared to players of today’s generation by the BBWAA and that all current and former player stats are not actually a factor (whether it is stated as such by them, or not) is, at best, naive and, at worst, just plain silly.
I just don’t believe that this is not actually the case. You believe differently, so be it.
By rjt
February 8, 2009 9:40 AM | Link to this
Ohman…I have no idea why anyone would be upset or even remotely disappointed with a non-acquisition of the lefty. One must peel his splits like a banana to paint a seemingly positive picture of his value to the team. He is the most ordinary of ordinaries, the utter mediocrity of mediocre.
This team has been improved tremendously by the addition of Lowe and Vaz as well as the subtraction of Corky and Ring. The loss of Ohman is merely the redistribution of financial resources to more pressing needs which requires but a phone call to the farm in order to locate a suitable replacement.
By keylargo
February 8, 2009 9:46 AM | Link to this
There is no way they are going to pay more than $3 million let alone $2 million per year for a middle relief pitcher. It’s bad enough they are paying Soriano $2.65 million, but I figure that Braves Management considers him a closer of sorts (if Gonzalez goes down). proeye
Soriano is due to make $6.1 million in 09.
By rainman34
February 8, 2009 9:50 AM | Link to this
for those tore up about not resigning ohman you need to remember what he was before he came to the braves. Guys like him are a dime a dozen it comes down to the manager and how they use them. logan has a much better arm and upside to sign ohman and use up our remaining funds just didnt make any since. to me it is the same with glavine. hanson, campy and morton could give you the same or better results. what we need is a run producer. Adam dunn as bad as he is in left is that run producer. for those worried about our bull pin. look at the arms we will have. boyer, gonzo, moylan, soraino, bennet who pitched great last year, logan, marick has a canon, and maybe morton if they decide he is better in the pin.
By Canadianbrave
February 8, 2009 9:51 AM | Link to this
rjt
Here!Here!
By Dadgum
February 8, 2009 9:55 AM | Link to this
Alex Rodriguez should hold a press conference on Monday and come clean with the fact that he knowingly used steroids in 2003 and whatever other years if any.
As baseball fans we have been just inundated with steroid scandles in the past 5 years or so. Not to mention other scandles somewhat under the radar. A-Rod should see that lying didn’t work for Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, et al. A-Rod will be booed to the hilt at every stadium he plays. May as well come clean immediately. Save some face where those that came before him didn’t. Get it out.
Will he do this? Probably not. Probably will hide behind some wall of hope. The fans and the game are wiser now. A-Rod knows it. He could actually get some kudos for standing up and doing what is right. Jose Canseco is looking like a saint right now. Ya’ll think about it.
Rock on……Steroids? I don’t need no stinkin’ steroids.
By BlawgDawg
February 8, 2009 9:55 AM | Link to this
No longer pursuing Will Ohman???? Good grief has this offseason been one aggravating happening after another. This makes me more upset than seeing Smoltz leave. At least we know Ohman will be ready at the start of the season and the guy WANTS to be here. This guy was lights out last year before the heavy workload caught up with him, and now we get to watch him sign with the Phillies or Mets…..why? I’ve been defending Frank Wren to my friends all offseason, asking for patience, but he’s starting to become hard to defend.
By Tomas
February 8, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this
Well, if the Braves are no longer pursuing Will Ohman, and the offer made to Glavine was between 1-2 million with incentives to make it 3 million(by the way I think it’s pretty fair and I doubt another team would give Glavine much more), then they better get a left fielder. Come on Bobby Abreu or Adam Dunn, be smart Wren, stop pursuing Nick Swisher who will make 5.6 million or Xavier Nady.
By kdbanks
February 8, 2009 10:00 AM | Link to this
What DOB wrote: “Taking the BATON from the great Ms. Streep and running with it.”
What KDB read before his first cup of coffee: “Taking the BACON from the great Ms. Streep and running with it.”
That caused confusion and then amusement once I realized my mistake. This is going to be a good day.
By Run Heap Run
February 8, 2009 10:05 AM | Link to this
I’m afraid the latest, apparently insulting, offer to a Braves legend does not bode well for my man Chipper.
By rjt
February 8, 2009 10:06 AM | Link to this
Imagine for a moment that this rotation holds together and performs as hoped. We add a difference-maker in LF and find our way to a post season opportunity.
It’s time for September call-ups, and the pen could use a shot in the arm.
Tommy Hanson a la Adam Wainwright.
By rjt
February 8, 2009 10:15 AM | Link to this
BlawgDawg, if this offseason has been “one aggravating happening after another”, two things ring obvious:
1) You didn’t live through the 70’s and 80’s with this club.
2) You fail to recognize the work Wren has done in constructing a rotation heads and tails better and more reliable than the one he was left at the “departure” of JS.
Lowe, Vaz, Kawi, JJ combine to create a very solid core of pitching whose ability to eat innings and avoid big offensive outbursts will in itself bolster the bullpen significantly.
Ohman didn’t flame out because he pitched too many innings. He flamed out because his hot streak ran its course, and he was unveiled as a bullpen fluke.
Boyer was overused and became very hittable. Ohman just stinks.
Good to see Wren shift that margin to his pursuit of LF. It’s needed and will make a far, far, far greater impact there than it would with Ohman in the pen.
By GTguy84
February 8, 2009 10:23 AM | Link to this
DOB - Do you think the Braves pulling out of the Ohman sweepstakes could mean they are about to make a trade for a oufielder with a little bigger contract or maybe sign one of the big name FA outfielders left on the market to a little bigger contract than they thought it might take?
By Salty Dawg
February 8, 2009 10:31 AM | Link to this
Dadgum
“Alex Rodriguez should hold a press conference on Monday and come clean with the fact that he knowingly used steroids in 2003 and whatever other years if any.
As baseball fans we have been just inundated with steroid scandles in the past 5 years or so. Not to mention other scandles somewhat under the radar. A-Rod should see that lying didn’t work for Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, et al. A-Rod will be booed to the hilt at every stadium he plays. May as well come clean immediately. Save some face where those that came before him didn’t. Get it out.
Will he do this? Probably not. Probably will hide behind some wall of hope. The fans and the game are wiser now. A-Rod knows it. He could actually get some kudos for standing up and doing what is right. Jose Canseco is looking like a saint right now. Ya’ll think about it.”
Doing what is right??? You mean fessing up after the cat is already out of the bag? No points for that my man. As my parents used to ask when I was a lad, are you sorry or are you sorry you got caught?
I for one don’t really care about the steroids anymore. In fact, I’m tired of hearing about it. How many millions of dollars are being wasted by the federal government trying to make a case against Barroid Bonds? Most fans have a pretty good idea of which guys took PEDs and, yes, there should be an asterisk beside their names in any record books. And now the Golden Boy, the one that was supposed to surpass Bonds with a clean record, has been tarnished. What to do, what to do? The only solution is to clean up baseball going forward, accept that for many years a lot of guys were juiced, give them amnesty, and play baseball.
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 8, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this
We all have seem to forget about Tim Hudson. I know he is injured, but having Hudson at even 80% in August and hopefully a little better come mid-late September. That gives you: Lowe, Hudson, Jurjjens, Vazquez, Kawakami and Glavine/Hanson down the stretch for the last 40+ games. If Kawakami can perform that is a pretty wicked rotation! There is no reason Hudson can’t recover like every other pitcher coming back from TJ. I’ll tell you that is some playoff rotation, especially for a 7 game series after Hudson gets some starts under his belt. Just add that LF bat and lets get movin’!!!
By The Vet
February 8, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB have u heard anything on giving Chipper a extension? if not what’s your opinion with it? do u see us getting it done before the season starts. i kinda agree with Run heap run. first smoltz now possibly glavine, if they wait til after the season i can see it now (Wren)-> hey Chipper will offer u a 3 yr deal making 4mil a yr …….
By The Vet
February 8, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB have u heard anything on giving Chipper a extension? if not what’s your opinion with it? do u see us getting it done before the season starts. i kinda agree with Run heap run. first smoltz now possibly glavine, if they wait til after the season i can see it now (Wren)-> hey Chipper will offer u a 3 yr deal making 4mil a yr …….
By Wayne in Utah
February 8, 2009 10:34 AM | Link to this
Randon Been sort of sporadic for me on the blog lately, so I missed flange1’s 3 people post.
One minor correction. I don’t hate Manny. Hate is such a strong word. I try to keep those sort of thoughts and feelings out of my mind/heart.
Also, I don’t wish him any bad luck or anything else like that. I just think that sometimes it is poetic justice when the greedy get their just rewards.
By rotty
February 8, 2009 10:36 AM | Link to this
With this team it is more likely they are done and will go with what they have.
The 1-2mm offer to Glavine maybe the last gasp of spending for this team.
Liberty is not doing amazingly well and the economy is DOA.
I hope it means Dunn or Abreu are looming but it feels more like - we overspent on pitching due to knee jerk moves - sorry folks.
By YankeeDawg
February 8, 2009 10:38 AM | Link to this
Say Glavine stays healthy for a full season, gets 8 wins from that spot, which is what most teams get from the 5 hole, then $3MM is fair. If however, he goes down in May with bumshoulderitis, is $1.5MM worth the price of him showing up for a month of say 5 starts? Yes. And there you have the answer, it is a fair deal. Protects the Braves against the risk of injury and provides Galvine w/ a reasonable contract for a 5th spot.
However, Glavine really feels like he can/should beat out Kawakami (sp?) for the 4th spot and is entitled to $6MM. You can hear the wheels turning in his head and voice. He thinks he should receive $3MM for showing up, and another upside of $3MM if he performs. He would never think to give money back. Imagine if he gets to the end of Spring Training and warming the arm up good and something goes wrong, come to find out he can’t do it for an entire season, he’s not giving money back.
$3MM is a fair risk reward.
By YankeeDawg
February 8, 2009 10:43 AM | Link to this
Canseco = Markopolos 90’s sports journalist = McCarthy?
By systematic arsehole
February 8, 2009 10:55 AM | Link to this
Areopagus
That was a significant statement you procured regarding Mr. O’Brien. However, I do not know how one can be stentorian without being audible
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:05 AM | Link to this
Anything at all from the inside on this whole A-Rod deal? It’s everywhere up here. Lead story on every news channel etc…Anders
Nothing. And let me know how many comments (if any) you saw yesterday about A-Rod’s steroids test from any active player or team official who wasn’t with either the Rangers at that time or with the Yankees (his current team) today, or isn’t a broadcaster.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:06 AM | Link to this
I wonder if the braves not going after Ohman any longer means they are about to take on a large contract via free agency or a trade. Maybe they have found that outfield bat?JoeFan
I had similar thoughts. Certainly wouldn’t surprise me.
By tr
February 8, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this
rjt
1) I did live through the 70’s and 80’s with this club - late 60’s, too!
2) I both recognize and appreciate the work Wren has done on the rotation.
BUT…
While I would not expect Ohman to repeat his overall performance again, I recognize and appreciate something you obviously do not. He is an outstanding and proven situational lefty - something that is sorely needed with all the outstanding left-handed bats in our division.
I understand budget limits, but would hope the team’s position on Ohman is posturing rather than a flat-out refusal to consider him for the bullpen! His talent and attitude (a professional yet still fun guy) would be an asset if the money is available for him to be affordable.
I know I’m very much in the minority here in believing we’ll be just fine in the outfield - I like the available options. I also very much believe that pitching injuries and the subsequent problems they created were more of the problem in ‘08 than the offense. You cannot have too much pitching!
And having watched the Braves over the years, the times the team struggled offensively, IMO, the problem was all too often rally-killing, swing-for-the-fence-type hitters and their K’s and DP’s.
I’m a full-fledged, rose-colored-glasses fan who thinks that a healthy Diaz can provide a consistent half of a productive platoon in LF (with Anderson, maybe?).
I am also confident that gap-to-gap production will be better for the likes of Frenchie, KJ, and Kotchman. They should spark or complete more rallies than 10 - 15 homers and a lot of K’s and DP’s from the available LF power-hitting options, not to mention their defensive liabilities.
‘08 was a tough lesson for Jeff, who had never really faced such a struggle in his athletic life. But such terrific athletes usually find a way to excel (or die trying), and I like what I’ve heard of his new approach at the plate.
KJ showed signs of growth, adjustment, and success - a young player getting better.
There was a LOT for Kotchman to deal with in his early days with the team, and he showed late season signs of being everything it was hoped he might be.
I’m starting to like this team, but I’d like them better with a couple of proven lefties (Glavine & Ohman) added to the pitching staff! And I’d rather wait ‘til June or July to see what we might want or need to complement what we have instead of just grabbing a recognizable name for LF.
By THE BEAR
February 8, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this
My father was an old time law enforcement officer for about 40 years. One day he arrested a city councilman for some rather minor crime and when I expressed surprise he replied, “son, there are only two classes of people, the caught and the uncaught.”
While looking at the newest revelations about steroid use I am beginning to see what my dad was talking about.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this
You are drastically overstating your case. And, imo, you are flat out wrong.
To my knowledge, the vast majority of the HoF voters compare candidates to their peers and predecessors (especially those already in the HoF), NOT their successors.
Rightly or wrongly, Murphy and Dawson have not made the HoF because they are perceived as not sufficiently dominating their era, not ours.Random
Really, Random? Andre Dawson won an MVP award in 1987, was an MVP runner-up in 1983 and 1981, finished in the top 15 in MVP voting in three other seasons (including 1980 and 1991, more than a decade apart), and the top 25 in three others.
He was the NL Rookie of the Year in 1987, finished in the top 10 in his league in RBI eight times and the top 10 in slugging eight times, had one of the top seven batting averages in his league four times, and won eight Gold Gloves and four Silver Slugger awards.
The dude had 438 homers, 503 doubles, 98 triples and 314 stolen bases (in 423 attempts).
He wasn’t dominant enough for the Hall of Fame?
By Blane McFarnersternski
February 8, 2009 11:40 AM | Link to this
ESPN news scroll ran “Alex Rodriguez used steroids” all day long yesterday. However, today I’ve yet to see them mention one of their employee’s arrest for drugs last night (Jamal Anderson).
Gee whiz, what a head-scratcher.
By YankeeDawg
February 8, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
No Ohman could mean they are taking on Swishers $5.3MM ‘09 salary, + the Glavine $3MM would I think eat up the remaining guess-timated salary of roughly $8MM?
Did that $7-8MM include the amount needed for Francouer & KJ?
Further, any chance they try and “buy low” and lock Francouer up or was last season So Bad that it’s not worth the risk at all?
By Graham
February 8, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
DOB
Just read your post on Ohman. Just need clarification. Did they rescind their offer or is it still available for him to take, but no noegotiations?
Also, on a quick music note, just checked out a band called Aranda, out of Oklahoma, I believe. Good sound, with a slight similarity to the White Stripes, and simple rock. Ever heard of them?
By Graham
February 8, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
That would be “negotiations”, not “noegotiations”. Sorry for the incorrect spelling.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
For those who missed it ( like me), the Drive-By Truckers/Ryan Bingham show on Austin City Limits will be shown again Feb. 21 midnight to 1 a.m. (at least that’s the time on Georgia Public Television)
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:55 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB have u heard anything on giving Chipper a extension? if not what�s your opinion with it? do u see us getting it done before the season starts.The Vet
No, I haven’t heard anything yet.
Hey, the Braves have two months to get it done before the season starts, so there’s probably no excuse for not doing it, assuming they want to sign him to an extension and he’s not asking for anything outrageous (and considering his statements on the subject, and the reworking he did to his contract a few years ago, I’d bet he’s not asking for anything out of line).
I could see a scenario like the one with McCann a few springs ago, when the extension was reached in the first weeks of spring training. But I’ve not heard yet that it’s being discussed.
By mbatl
February 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this
Well, the chips are starting to fall. Apparently, Andruw is signing with the Rangers, so that’s off the table. Ohman won’t be consuming any of the available $$.
Cafardo suggests that Abreu may have to settle for one/two years at $3 mil per. I know there are a lot of valid opinions on our best options in LF, but I just don’t see how the Braves could pass on a deal like that for a quality OF. That’s “buying low” if ever I’ve heard of it.
By Lew
February 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this
Chuck James was Solid-Dude, I’m sure Hudson will attempt to be back strong by August. He might even have some success. However, when there are little blips in the rehab process such as broken scar tissue to deal with, it makes little sense to even consider him as a major contributor. We HOPE he will be back strong-and maybe he will be. Then again, maybe not. The time to count those unhatched barnyard fowl babies ain’t here yet.
By SCRusty
February 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
If Tom Glavine were a smart man (and I think he is), he would sign the danged contract immediately. First of all, it would endear him to Braves fans as a team player, and many might forgive him for abandoning the team to sign with a division rival. There’s also the “home town discount” aspect. He’s a 42 year old pitcher coming off arm surgery. He needs to prove he’s still got what it takes. If he still has it, all the better for him, the team, and the fans. If the tank has run out of gas, I think he’ll retire.
They always say you can never have too much pitching. If TG Does sign, it appears the Braves have too many pitchers along with too many (questionable) outfielders. Methinks a trade is coming soon for a LF hitter. I only hope FW doesn’t give up too much of the future to get him. I smell baseball in the air! I can’t wait! Go Braves!
By Woo-Hoo!
February 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones to the Rangers. Thank God.
By Original Jon
February 8, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this
MLBTraderumors.com notes that Bobby Abreu may have to take a 1 year, 3 million dollar deal. If he will go that low, I say the Braves sign him now
By RemoW
February 8, 2009 12:12 PM | Link to this
Nice interview with Tommy. His candor and responses made a ton of sense. The honesty is refreshing. I can understand how there has to be enough money to pry him from home for 8 months, I get it.
RW…
By BravesFanInRockies
February 8, 2009 12:13 PM | Link to this
Original Jon
Hard to believe Abreu would get only $3 million. Without thinking hard at all I came up with six teams in the NL he would upgrade immediately at twice that price.
(For all you MST3K fans) —
Push the button, Frank!
By BravesFanInRockies
February 8, 2009 12:14 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, and I’m glad to see confirmation of the Andruw signing. Big relief.
By SeaAtl
February 8, 2009 12:16 PM | Link to this
ESPN is saying that Andruw Jones will be signing a MINOR league deal with the Texas Rangers, getting paid $500k if he makes the MLB club. I’m surprised that he’s signing a minor league deal……so, Braves aren’t going to re-sign Ohman, aren’t looking to bring Andruw back, and have started out offering a really low offer to Glavine……I’m hopeful that these are signs Wren is looking hard at one of these big name-big bats for the anemic outfield.
By Prime Time
February 8, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this
I feel bad for players like Rafeal Belliard. If he had juiced then he could have hit 6-7 homers in his career.
By JR Bob Dobbs
February 8, 2009 12:19 PM | Link to this
So I’m sitting here on a nice Sunday morning surfing the Web with the MLB Network on in the background. As they’re covering the A-Rod issue, I believe I just heard Bob Costas say (to paraphrase) that the MLB players were silent about performance enhancers until “Tom Glavine and some other players finally went to Gene Orza and the MLB Players Association” and asked that something be done with regards to testing in an effort to try to get the problem under control.
Did I hear that correctly (or did anyone else happen to catch that)? Is that true that Glavine (the only player that Costas mentioned by name) personally went to Orza to ask that MLBPA try to address the problem, and if so, is that common knowledge? If so, I sure wasn’t aware. It would seem ironic to me, given how much flak Glavine has taken over his career for his player’s union role, if he was actually one of a small number of players that tried to do something about performance enhancers when so many others were silent.
Meanwhile, speaking of MLB Network, I have to agree with an earlier post by Anders when I write that I’m impressed. Adding Costas to the lineup is really strong - anyone catch his outstanding interview with Joe Torre and Tom Verducci the other night? Maybe it’s somewhat akin to a starving man being given a piece of old bread, but being able to watch the Caribbean Series that has been running this past week put a smile on my face and has me ready for Spring Training.
It just about makes up for MLB holding us cable subscribers to the MLB Extra Innings Package hostage two offseasons ago in the effort to force cable providers to agree to add MLB Network in the first place, heh…
By KC
February 8, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
If I were paid to do something, but then found myself unable to perform the promised services, and were not contractually obligated to return that remuneration… I might feel a bit bad about it.
Why is it that players never give a damn?
Smoltz was paid 14 million to play golf last year. Yet, he leaves for Boston over a difference of 2-3 million.
Glavine makes 8 million last year provide “veteran leadership” in the dugout… and now the Braves offer isn’t good enough.
Wouldn’t it be nice for either of them to think “gee, after getting paid a fortune to do nothing, maybe I could offer a slight price break to the team I’ve played for 17-20 years”.
And while Tom Glavine is busy talking about “a price that makes it worth his while”… perhaps he should read the papers and consider the hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs before he publicly scoffs at 2-3 million dollars.
By Lew
February 8, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this
According to both the MLB website and the Rangers’ site, there is nothing about Andruw having signed wit the Rangers. The most I saw was termed “strong interest” in one article and that the GM is “considering” Andruw. No signing, though.
However, the Phillies just signed Ryan Howard to a three year, $54mil contract. Where’s that moron from last year claiming Howard wouldn’t sign long term for anything over $10 mil?
Prime Time-Good line on Raffy.
By Anders
February 8, 2009 12:46 PM | Link to this
DOB
Your 11:05 post is fair. In retrospect almost all that I heard, read and saw regarding A-Rod had came from those types you mentioned.
That said, Bill Maddden of The NY Daily News and Tom Verducci of SI both said unless something else comes out to convice them otherwise that based on the SI report they would not vote for A-Rod into the HOF no matter what he does for the rest of his career. Both have said the same about, McGuire, Bonds Clemens et al.
As the President of the BWWAA where do you stand on these guys as well as A-Rod?
Also, I believe if we’re going to uset his leaked info to keep guys out of the HOF they should expose them all to be fair. Thoughts?
By Steve McP
February 8, 2009 12:52 PM | Link to this
DOB - you mentioned that the Braves are no longer pursuing Ohman - does this mean that they have pulled the contract offer already made off of the table, or that they would not be involved in a bidding war?
I thought the negotiating agreements in Baseball say that unless a time scale was in the offer, once made, could not be withdrawn unless it was specifically declined.
By Frank
February 8, 2009 12:52 PM | Link to this
DOB in regards to you 11:28 a.m. post…
The Hawk should make it in and so should Murph.
I grew up a huge Royals fan living here in Kansas but also was a fan of Murph and Dawson. I later got to be more of a fan of The Hawk when he was with the Cubs and got to watch a lot of Cub games on WGN.
If Frenchy can turn it around with the arm he has….he could become the next Dawson, IMO.
By Tomas
February 8, 2009 12:57 PM | Link to this
Man, Texas has some pretty good outfielders. I mean Nelson Cruz hits 40 homers in the minors, then is called up in September and hits 7HR, with a 330 AVG, wow. David Murphy, pretty good as well, he hit 275AVG, 15HR, 74 RBI’s in 108 games, more than any Brave outfielder. Marlon Byrd hit 298 with 10HR, 53RBI’s, and a 380OBP in 122 games. Oh and by the way they also have Josh Hamilton the winner of the homerun derby, and RBI leader in the AL. And not only that, they have an outfielder with pretty good potential called Brandon Boggs who had 8HR in 283AB.
If Andruw makes the team, he is going to have to show some pretty good hitting skills in spring training, I’m talking about 2005 mvp award candidate Andruw. Maybe they would consider trading Murphy, or Boggs(I would love Nelson Cruz but I seriously doubt they would trade him). They seriously need pitching, which the Braves have a lot of depth on.
Maybe a Jo-jo Reyes for David Murphy or something like that. Then sign Glavine and Ohman. Or simply sign Bobby Abreu, and hope Glavine takes the offer currently on the table.
By the way Ryan Howard just signed a 3 year 54 million contract extension.
By mbatl
February 8, 2009 12:58 PM | Link to this
Lew, regarding AJ, the NY POST reports it as a done…or soon-to-be-done… deal. Maybe it’s b.s. but they’re pretty specific with contract terms, etc.
By rotty
February 8, 2009 12:59 PM | Link to this
MLBTR is a nice site to get unfiltered info but the site is just a read it, post it best guess information source.
They read the major websites and post away.
Nothing wrong with it but $3mm for Abreu sees silly. If that is the case then make it 5mm and sign Dunn.
40hrs/100RBIs from the clean up spot would be very nice.
My greater concern is the rumor that the Braves are out of money hence the low ball on Tommy and passing on AJ even for a cheap minor league deal.
Wren can prove those rumors false by landing Dunn or Abreu.
Personally I take Dunn for 2 yrs since they need a 2yr bridge to Heyward and have not really 40hr threat on the team or in the minors (high minors).
By Efrim
February 8, 2009 1:05 PM | Link to this
mbatl
“I know there are a lot of valid opinions on our best options in LF, but I just don’t see how the Braves could pass on a deal like that for a quality OF. That’s “buying low” if ever I’ve heard of it.”
Very true. But that also means that other teams will be in it. Getting down to crunch time for some of these free agents. I’m sure some are comfortable with waiting for the right deal, but we’ll see how many are really willing to do that.
Steve from OH
Aren’t you a Red Wings fan? You watching this game right now? Pens got Wings and Sharks at home this week. They need to come away with some points in one of the two. It’d be big.
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 8, 2009 1:06 PM | Link to this
Blane McFarnersternski They are hypocrits in the sense that they havn’t yet atleast said something about it. I am a Cowboy fan, no need to trash me, but my favorite player of all-time, who made me a Cowboy fan is Mike Irvin, also an ESPN guy now. He got busted time after time but other then that he is a class-act guy. Met him 10 years ago when I was 14. I asked if my dad could take the pitcure of us two. Not only did he sign my helmet and take the picture, he asked what my position was, which was WR and he took a few minutes out of his time to show me some cool tips. Great guy IMO. But if he got exploited for his past mistakes, ESPN should suspend Anderson have him admit to his mistakes and have him move on from it and hopefully learn a lesson. Lew The time to count those unhatched barnyard fowl babies ain’t here yet. Haha, nice one man. But my logic is there is nothing to say he can’t come back and after 3-5 starts get back to being a quality start pitcher maybe not his consistent showings of 7 IP and 1-2 ER. I’m sure we’ll see some early ups and downs and consistent 6-7IP and 3-4 ER’s in September after a few starts. My whole point there was we talk about how ATL has: Lowe, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Kawakami, Glavine/Hanson/Campillo and Hudson coming back to contribute in the last crucial month and that would make our team stacked in SP. Which as we all know you can’t have enough. Something tells me ATL knows alot about Kawakami and are confident he can post 25-30 starts and post an ERA slightly under 4, especially since no MLB hitter has ever seen him. Last years injuries and breakdowns all over with pitching ruined the year. If you don’t recall, ATL was chosen by many ESPN analysts to be WS Champs and they lost 90+ games because SP broke down and Francoeur struggled. This year is a whole ‘nother story!
I would have loved to have Ohman back but not at the expense of not having a LF. I just analyzed Swishers stats and he is an enigma. Consistent average of .240ish hitting 25-30 bombs and versatile D, he is what he is, although he is 29 and NL has never seen him. He wouldn’t be my first choice but definitely better then what they got now and I love how he is a switch hitter. However, as Original Jonmentioned, if they can land Abreu for 1-2 years at even $5 million which I think is more realistic, that would me miraculous! Why give up Prado and maybe a lower prospect when you can get a steal like that?? However, if they do land Swisher or Nady and ATL has to part with Prado and prospect (for those that don’t know NYY crave Prado as their utility man) ATL can sign Durham at league minimum who is more versatile then Prado, had a .380 OBP last year, is a switch hitter and servicable fill in on D who has some serious pop left in his bat. So losing Prado wouldn’t be too terrible if they land Durham. But again, if you can get Bobby Abreu for 1 YR/$5 Mill or get a steal at 2 YR’s/$10 mill they need to jump on that ASAP!! JR Bob Dobbs What is the deal with the MLB Network I was waiting for it to develop before I purchase it but have heard nothing but great things and want it now. What is the cost per year on it and do you have to buy MLB XTRA Innings seperate or is there a package? Because paying like 150 a year for both is a little steep, but I crave baseball and now with Costas and co. I want to jump on board! Any comments or money it would cost etc. would help. I hope I don’t have to pay full for MLB XTRA Innings and MLB Network…Thanks in advance man….
By BravesFanInRockies
February 8, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this
Chuck James
MLB Network is bundled with premium sports channels like ESPNU and the NFL Network. Can’t buy it separately. DirecTV and many cable systems offer it, You should go to the MLB Web site to see how to get it.
By Steve from OH
February 8, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this
Efrim, hat-tip to you, my man. Had no idea the Wings were on the tube right now (was multi-tasking, doing work and reading the blog, now I’m tri-tasking, lol). I very rarely get to see my Wings on TV anymore (freakin’ Versus).
Abreu at 3MM? Yes please.
By Frank
February 8, 2009 1:20 PM | Link to this
Ya know, if Wren doesn’t offer Chip a extension…it wouldn’t surprise me.
I mean, hell…I was one who thought Justice would be a Brave for life. Smoltz should’ve been and Glavine would’ve been if it weren’t for him wanting more money and signing with the Muts..(Lol)opps…I mean the Mets.
By Logan
February 8, 2009 1:21 PM | Link to this
RPI
Are Utah legislators up in arms over this lofty RPI rating? BCS or RPI pick your poison.
By Lew
February 8, 2009 1:23 PM | Link to this
mbatl_maybe so. However, I refuse to accept the NY Post as a valid source. I’d rather see it confirmed by The Rangers’ themselves or by MLB.
Chuck James is Solid-I think I’ll wait until I see how it’s shaking out in late July. Until then, there’s nothing but hopeful he’ll be back. Best laid plans and all of that. You’re right-he COULD come back and make 3-5 good starts. Then again, maybe not. I’m not ready to pencil him into the rotation yet. Too many blog conversations about a year and a half recovery time for starters to be overly optimistic.. We’ll see.
By Lew
February 8, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this
Chuck-I’ve got Comcast and MLB Network is included as part of the package (no HD channel, though). Have had to pay around $160 a year (broken over four monthly payments, May-August) for the Extra Innings package. You usually can get a $20 discount by signing up by the end of the first week of the season. I’ve had EI for five or so years and couldn’t survive as a Braves’ fan without it. Usually the only games not televised are those on Saturday before 7 in the evening (due to the Fox Sat. BBall contract). Other than that, they only NOT televise maybe three games each year, mostly while the Basketball season is still underway (many of those specific channels are being used by the NBA pkg.)..
By Anders
February 8, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this
Hey Efrim, what’s with you and your teams going to blue third jersey’s? Looks like you’re 0-2 :)
Did you just here Milbury diss you boy Cosby by saying Malkin and Ovechkin are better than him. As you know I agree with him.
How can the NHL really have Milbury as their voice in the studio? I mean this is a guy who climbed the glass in his skates at MSG and beat a fan over the head with his own shoe. Can you imagine if that happened today? The NHL suspended Avery for his words. Plus Milbury was the Matt Millen of NHL GM’s.
The NHL is a conflicted sport. They keep changing the rules to take the contact out and free it up for more skating and scoring but they keep using these old school meatheads to talk the game up.
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 8, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this
KC Great points man! Here is a post from last night on my rant on Glavine, I believe you will agree, it’s along the lines of your thoughts… Regarding Tom Glavine I am now livid. I’ve been a Braves fan since I was about 5 years old, watching them on TBS relentlessly since. I am 24 now and I was hoping that Tom would take this offer more or less to make up for his past mistake of going to the Mets. Last year he made $8 million dollars for 2 wins and a 6 ERA. “All things equal” if he takes this years offer and best case scenario wins 12 games that is 14 wins for $10 million dollars. Wren is taking a chance on the 43 year old here, giving him an opportunity to finish his career where he wants to. He didn’t have to do that.
After reading DOB’s article on Tom, I am now not a supporter of Tom unless he makes this right now. Yeah, you have offended me Glavine with a statement like this now: “I’m obviously in a very good place financially. I don’t need the money. But … there’s a price for everything. I don’t know how to say that without someone getting offended. In every business, there’s a price that makes it worthwhile.” Well, Tom, if you want to finish your career in Atlanta, take the petty $2 million and do it. Why don’t you take a lesson out of Chipper’s book and say something like, “$2 million is fair being that I am not a definite to be healthy, sure I feel good but nothing is guaranteed. I understand the Braves are strapped with money so I am taking a little less then I imagined so they can use that to finish the deal with Ohman and improve LF. I want to play for a strong winning team and I believe with those peices filled, we will have a great year in my last year and compete for the WS Championship.”
You all know darn well that is an ideal Chipper quote. Well, Tom, you mine as well have called that $2 million offer pathetic because after your quotes we now know that’s what you wish you could call it. Well if that’s not enough start talkin to other teams ‘cause we don’t want you back that bad. Go back to the Mets, they need a #5. The selfishness and ego are just angering! You made what $130+ Million. You need a couple more just to satisfy your ego Tom? Fine, get it somewhere else. That “petty couple million” is what gets us that veteran quality LH reliever and can make the difference in improving LF. Don’t want to take a little cut like Chipper, at 43 off two surgeries no less to improve the team? Fine, walk…… rotty Braves ARE NOT out of money it’s been stated many times that they have up to $9 Mill left. Getting Tommy for $3Mill, leaves $6 Mill. That can easily sign Abreu and/or acquire Nady or Swisher. Swisher would be my last option. Give Abreu a 2YR/14 Mill offer and pay him $6 Mill this YR and backload to $8 Mill in 2010 and that can get us Glavine and Aberu and insurance in LF until Heyward is ready, which is realistically 2011. Great year for ATL to need a LF bat. If ATL offers Abreu that contract I’m sure he’d take it since reliable sources say he’s looking at even $3-5 Mill now!! The only interested teams are Dodgers (They aren’t in their getting Manny) Mariners (Abreu doesn’t want to play for a perennial 100-Loss team) Mets (Will get outbid by ATL since they said their done and are looking for bargains around $3 Mill) Only team to worry about is Angels (They can land Dunn though, but IF they get Abreu then Dunn could be had for 1 YR/$6 Mill so he can get back out there on the market next year, which is good news because he’ll get %110 every game so he can get that big contract next winter). DOB Like Steve McP mentioned, you never clarified, is the offer still sitting on the table or has it been retracted? Thanks in advance man…
By Steve from OH
February 8, 2009 1:37 PM | Link to this
Anders, I am against every single rule that takes contact and defense out of the game. I’d much rather see a 1-0 or 2-1 hard-hitting battle than a 6-5 shootout. I think if the NHL wants to attract more fans they need to get back to a hard-hitting game with a few more brawls.
By Chuck James was solid until the 6th!!!
February 8, 2009 1:37 PM | Link to this
BravesFaninRockies Thanks man
By Anders
February 8, 2009 1:50 PM | Link to this
Steve From Ohio
Couldn’t agree more. Hockey is a niche sport and should market itself that way. Bettman has been trying to follow the NBA way since he came from there. He keeps pushing the “Star System”. He inherited Gretzky and then went to Lemieux then Jagr, etc right up to Crosby today. Hockey is a team sport. People truly root for the jersey and it should be marketed that way.
Personally I think the NBA has hurt itself with the star system. Kids in NY are more likely to wear a Kobe or Wade jersey than a Knick player today. How does that help create home twon fans in the long run?
By Anders
February 8, 2009 1:50 PM | Link to this
Steve From Ohio
Couldn’t agree more. Hockey is a niche sport and should market itself that way. Bettman has been trying to follow the NBA way since he came from there. He keeps pushing the “Star System”. He inherited Gretzky and then went to Lemieux then Jagr, etc right up to Crosby today. Hockey is a team sport. People truly root for the jersey and it should be marketed that way.
Personally I think the NBA has hurt itself with the star system. Kids in NY are more likely to wear a Kobe or Wade jersey than a Knick player today. How does that help create home twon fans in the long run?
By keylargo
February 8, 2009 2:08 PM | Link to this
Was watching the MLB channel and saw Randy Johnson with the Mariners, facing Mark McGuire with the A’s. Johnson tried to get a 100 mph fastball past McGuire and didn’t. McGuire hit it 538 feet into leftcenter. The fans looked like they were doing the wave only it started down at the wall in leftcenter, went up to the upper deck and to the top of the stands - all thinking they might catch the ball. Just amazing………but not as amazing as when I thought that power was natural.
By BravesFanInRockies
February 8, 2009 2:15 PM | Link to this
This report is a little more solid re: Andruw.
Texas GM Jon Daniels says Andruw will “probably” be offered a minor-league deal and an invitation to camp.
By ô¿ô
February 8, 2009 2:26 PM | Link to this
i hope Wren atleast offered a minor legue contract to AJ - what would they have to lose? bad move in my eyes if they didnt.
By Random
February 8, 2009 2:41 PM | Link to this
TheAntiMe: “To think that previous players are not compared to players of today’s generation by the BBWAA and that all current and former player stats are not actually a factor (whether it is stated as such by them, or not) is, at best, naive and, at worst, just plain silly.”
No, neither naive nor silly. Just taking them at their words and justifications as to why they don’t think Murphy or Dawson are HoF-worthy.
I’m not just pulling this out of my axe, you know. Have you read any of their rationales?
*TAM: “I just don’t believe that this is not actually the case. You believe differently, so be it.”
So be it.
DOB: “Really? … [Dawson] wasn’t dominant enough for the Hall of Fame?”
What — did I forget to mention “rightly or wrongly”? Did I fail to emphasize voters’ perceptions?
My only point was that neither Murphy nor Dawson have fallen short of the HoF because they’re being unfairly compared to the likes of Bonds, Sosa, McGwire or Rodriguez.
If you care to address that point, I’m all ears. I mean, you’re the BBWAA President, and I’m sure we would all appreciate your insight into HoF voting.
By mbatl
February 8, 2009 2:42 PM | Link to this
The AJ deal is posted on the Ranger’s mlb site, so guess it’s legit.
According to the article, “Jones can opt out of his contract with the Rangers on March 20”. So I guess if he gets there, doesn’t like the guys, or isn’t playing well, he can just opt out, and none of it ever happened.
Tell you what: this is way too much drama for me. I hope the Braves stay away, regardless of what happens in Texas’ spring training camp.
By mbatl
February 8, 2009 2:49 PM | Link to this
More to the point, if AJ IS hitting, he can opt out and sign somewhere else. Geez, Rangers got taken on this one.
By McFann O –[zzz] (Braves Fann For Life)
February 8, 2009 3:03 PM | Link to this
Lew “However, the Phillies just signed Ryan Howard to a three year, $54mil contract.”
Ha-ave mercy. That’s a heckuva lotta bread for one dude. Haha…just about twice as much money as McCann’s contract, but only half the years! Insane…
By #1 A.Jones Fan
February 8, 2009 3:27 PM | Link to this
I am shocked really, about Andruw. Looks like the Braves did not even make him an offer which I cannot believe especially after reading that Bobby Cox was pushing to bring him back. Bobby must know something, or have some faith that his skills are still there, they just needed some dusting off.
I believe Andruw will in fact make the Rangers openning day roster, and he will be successful in 2009.
So lets get this straight the Braves have missed out on Rafeal Furcal, couldn’t land Peavy, AJ Burnett wouldn’t take Braves money, let Smoltz walk (and whined about it, like it wasn’t their fault for assuming he would take their low ball offer), low balled an offer to Glavine, and now wouldn’t even make a Minor League offer for $500k to Andruw?????
Does Lowe (3rd choice, as first two wouldnt take Braves Money), Vazquez (a solid #3 pitcher), and KK (an unproven pitcher from Japan) make up for all the GAFFS the Braves FO has made this off-season????
Ok so the Braves have some depth in teh rotation: Lowe Jurgens Vazquez (Hudson) KK Hanson/Reyes/Campillo
But are we really going into the season with cconfidence on the below? Where is the upgrade from llast year? Are we depending on winning 1-0 games?
SS Escobar (No upgrade needed) 2B Johnson (Would be better at 6,7 in LF) 3B C.Jones (No upgrade needed, but definitely need a backup) C B. McCann (No upgrade needed) RF Franceour (which one will we get, cannot depend on his bat, if so we are DOOMED) 1B C.Kotchman (Great defense, but again are we dependant on hitting for a high average, if so is bad) LF Matt Diaz (Again another Francoeur, Kotchman…could be good but in trouble if we are dependant) CF Blanco/Anderson (another ??)
We candepend on Chipper, Escobar, MCCann but there is nothing else….and Chipper is prone to get hurt. He needs someone between himself and McCann in the order to give at least a little fear in opposing pitchers.
IMO we will not see October with this lineup, just will not happen unfortunately.
How can anyone thing that this team will compete with the likes of the Mets, Phillies? At best we could hope for a solid 3rd place finish in teh division and that is with no unforeseen injuries, if Chipper goes down we have absolutely nothing.
Oh and didnt we trade away that mammoth bat off the bench in Flowers? GREAT!!!!!!!!!!
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this
DOB - you mentioned that the Braves are no longer pursuing Ohman - does this mean that they have pulled the contract offer already made off of the table, or that they would not be involved in a bidding war?Steve McP
Yes, the original offer is off the table. I think it has been for a while now, actually. Didn’t know that until this weekend.
By Nick in PA
February 8, 2009 3:40 PM | Link to this
DOB
Did the Braves offer Andruw a minor league deal? Or was it just at the discussion stage?
Seems to me the Braves were always his frist choice…
By Random
February 8, 2009 3:43 PM | Link to this
KC: “If I were paid to do something, but then found myself unable to perform the promised services, and were not contractually obligated to return that remuneration… I might feel a bit bad about it.”
Remember that day last week when you did nothing at work but play solitaire and post on the blog?
Have you sent your boss a refund check yet?
(JK — do not mean “you” personally.)
Btw, nice writing by you here!
Wayne in Utah: “One minor correction. I don’t hate Manny. Hate is such a strong word. I try to keep those sort of thoughts and feelings out of my mind/heart.”
Okay. I apologize, and retract the implication.
Sorry.
By Chuck James was Solid until the 6th!!!
February 8, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this
Lew Thanks dude…
By Wayne in Utah
February 8, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this
Andruw Probably nothing new here, but imo, if we had offered AJ a minor leagues contract, and he took it, and then barely was able to tread water in the spring, I would have been worried that Bobby would have put him in the cleanup slot for 3-4 months, due to his love fest for Andruw.
In my humble opinion, it is time for the youngsters or new blood (Swisher or Nady?) to get a shot.
And btw, I am shocked to find that there are actual hockey fans out there….
By BBFCFM
February 8, 2009 3:48 PM | Link to this
1 AJ FanFlowers was never on the bench, and has never been in the majors. Mammoth bat yes, but he wasnt going to sniff the majors with the braves with Mac here
By Chuck James was Solid until the 6th!!!
February 8, 2009 3:49 PM | Link to this
DOB If I were in ATL right now with a sweet bike like yours I would sure as heck be cruisin right now! Go enjoy your Sunday in that 70 degrees weather! Man you got it made down there today!! Ain’t too bad up North but the wetaher in ATL now is ridiculous!!
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 3:57 PM | Link to this
Chuck James, just got back from a ride on one bike and going out for another on the other bike now. You’re right, it’s gorgeous out.
By Wayne in Utah
February 8, 2009 3:57 PM | Link to this
Random Thnks. Didn’t say it doesn’t do my heart good to see someone like Manny get his just rewards though…..
:-)
Hearing a lot of low numbers for folks like Abreu (3 million per for 2 years) and Dunn (5 million per), but to me, those still sound too low, even in a depressed market.
Maybe the price will end up in those neighborhoods, but it just sounds low to me. You can be if clubs thought Abreu could be had for a 2 years, 6 million dollar package, he would have 4-5 offers on the table right now (maybe he does??).
By Billy
February 8, 2009 4:03 PM | Link to this
1 A.Jones FanDo you get your Braves propaganda through the North Vietnamese Inquirer?
Please try to keep up with the rest of us who have validated and used logic to understand this off season and the how’s and why’s things are the way they are.
You are out of touch with the reality of how this off season actually went. I will not try and show you the truth, but wow
By KC
February 8, 2009 4:03 PM | Link to this
Random: Thanks man. I’m self-employed, but thinking back on my last job… If I had spent 80-90% of the year farting around, the comparison would work. But I only spent 60% of my time doing nothing, so… =)
Of course, Smoltz and Glavine weren’t wasting time or not working. They certainly would’ve been out there if they could have been. But still… 8-14 million for almost nothing, and this guys don’t feel in the least bit indebted? I really don’t get that.
By Zach
February 8, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What’s going on here? we’re not pursing Ohman, Andruw is going to sign for under a million with the Rangers with a million incentives. Are we confident in our new lefty in the pen? Do we have an outfielder? If we have a left fielder who’s gonna play center? Oh and what do you think is going to happen with gregor blanco?
By Zach
February 8, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What’s going on here? we’re not pursing Ohman, Andruw is going to sign for under a million with the Rangers with a million incentives. Are we confident in our new lefty in the pen? Do we have an outfielder? If we have a left fielder who’s gonna play center? Oh and what do you think is going to happen with gregor blanco?
By N Nine (eta56)
February 8, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this
“Tommy Hanson a la Adam Wainwright”
and much more, imo *:)
“My greater concern is the rumor that the Braves are out of money hence the low ball on Tommy and passing on AJ even for a cheap minor league deal.”
Wren is not attached to former aging players as much. Its time to move on. I am glad he gave a reasonable offer that won’t bust the payroll. We cann still acquire a productive bat and be in good shape. Wren is a bat away from his entire goal that was set in October. That bat might not be as big, but he made up for it with the extra pitcher..
By #1 A.Jones Fan
February 8, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this
BBFCFM
Good point, but an emotional fan like myself with limited knowledge of the game overall could have dreamed of the day in 2009 when Flowers came off the bench as a converted 1B and BLASTED an 0-2 pitch from Johan Santana for the game winning walk off slam to win the division by a .5 of a game over teh Mets/Phillies who were tied for 2nd in the division but got just beat out for the wild card by the Dodgers……
But then again if Andruw would have been in the game he would have been the one….
ok enough of the highlight reals that go through my head.
By SCRusty
February 8, 2009 4:11 PM | Link to this
Does anyone know if Knology cable will be adding the MLB network to its lineup? Haven’t seen or heard anything from them on the matter. Not sure how big Knology is but they’re like the #2 cable provider behind Comcast around here. Thanks!
By THE BEAR
February 8, 2009 4:13 PM | Link to this
It is official. Andruw has signed with the Rangers for $500,000 minor league deal with incentives that he can make another $500,000 with 620 plate appearances.
By THE BEAR
February 8, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this
Andruw is a Ranger with a $500,000 minor league deal and can make another $500,000 if he puts in 620 plate appearances.
By Wayne in Utah
February 8, 2009 4:17 PM | Link to this
Zack Patience, grasshopper! Good things come to Braves fans who wait.
By #1 A.Jones Fan
February 8, 2009 4:19 PM | Link to this
Billy
Sorry for my inaccurate statements, but I am nto real clear on which were inaccurate. Granted there were some opinions inserted, but the hard facts on the players that either chose not to become a Brave or the Braves FO just gaffed at are traceable facts.
In my previous post I admit to not being a baseball Almanac like some of the more respected bloggers (DOB, KC, Wayne in Utah,etc) but I think the historical DOB articles have all the evidence needed to provide proof that these events did actually happen.
You are free to form your own opinion, but you would not get very many supporters if you were to say that the Braves have made more SUCCESSFUL moves this offseason than UNSUCCESSFUL….just didnt happen.
Gaffs Peavy - Couldn’t negotiate a trade (ok I will give the FO this one, probably not their fault) Furcal (Braves FO laughing stock of baseball on this one) Smoltz (again laughing stock) AJ Burnett (very public that Braves considered #1 target….OOPS) Glavine (just see the posts previous) AJones (not many supporters here but I believe even DOB inferred that he “would not be suprised” if he ended up a Brave.
Sorry man, Lowe was certainly the can’t get Peavy, can’t get Burnett…..who is #3 on ESPN’s top FA?
No offense, but dont think I gaffed as much as you seem to think I did.
By KC
February 8, 2009 4:26 PM | Link to this
Well, while I’m not at all disappointed that we didn’t give AJ a major league roster spot… I am disappointed that we didn’t get him on a minor league deal. I mean, there was really nothing to lose with that type of contract. I certainly won’t lose any sleep over it though.
By #1ChipperFAN
February 8, 2009 4:41 PM | Link to this
Swisher is the best option behind Dunn, If FW wanted Dunn he wouldnt be loading up on pitching and holding onto crap outfielders, he’s going to give the yankees what they want for a young talented switch hitting Swisher…mark my words he will hit .275 with 29 HR and 85 RBI’s depending on who is the lead off hitter and if he can get on base.
By Lew
February 8, 2009 4:45 PM | Link to this
Chuck-One more thing about the Extra Innings package-They don’t always use the Braves’ feed, so sometimes you get worse announcers (guys in Milwaukee were pretty bad and now you’ll get Dibble on the Nats broadcasts instead of Sutton), but then again, when in L.A., you usually get to hear Vin Scully and that makes up for Milwaukee-and then some.
In the middle of a pennant race, it’s fun to flip back and forth between the Phillies’, Marlins’ and Mets’ games, too.
By spotts
February 8, 2009 4:46 PM | Link to this
I really wish we would’ve gotten Andruw. If he was willing to sign a minor league deal, why not give it a shot? If he stinks it up out of Spring Training, then let him go or keep him in the minors. No harm done.
Better to do that than to see him flourish elsewhere while we kick ourselves in butts. Signing him to a minor league contract would’ve been extremely low risk at hardly any cost (in the baseball world at least).
By Bobby's Cox
February 8, 2009 4:48 PM | Link to this
Yeah they have a good offense bolstered by the best hitters park in MLB last season, and still can’t get a whiff of a World Series. Shows how little offense by itself matters and why the Braves and now Wren have always gone the pitching route as they did again this off-season. Moby Grape
My response to you was that you’re saying Texas only produces good offensive stats at home. I’m saying, no, they’re pretty damn good on the road too aka their road splits, that is, only their offensive stats on away from home.
I didn’t mention anything about them having a good pitching staff except that they NEED starting pitching, and if they get it, the AL West could be theirs
Texas needs pitching and has lots of Outfielder/power hitters, especially “if” AJ can find his swing. The Braves, especially “if” they sign Glavine, have a lot of starters near ready to pitch in the bigs. That was the gist of what i was saying, and it seems to me like a deal can be worked out. And, I’d rather have Cruz than Dunn, Swisher, Nady, or any other option out there, especially when you figure in their salaries… The dude can flat out rake.
By Bubdylan
February 8, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
#1 A.Jones Fan, you’re his number one fan? Betcha had to fight like hell to gain that spot. Who’s behind you, Mrs. Jones and a tumbleweed?
By Chris
February 8, 2009 4:54 PM | Link to this
I agree with #1chipperFAN, swisher is probably the best option behind dunn. i think swisher will hit above the 25 homerun mark and his average will be around .260. he’s fine on the field and the braves can always trade him in a year or two. it’s too bad that the payroll only went up about $3-4 million but it was enough for the braves to put a competitive team out there this year.
By Anders
February 8, 2009 5:00 PM | Link to this
“In the middle of a pennant race, it’s fun to flip back and forth between the Phillies’, Marlins’ and Mets’ games, too.” -LEW
Being that’s where the NL East coast pennant race now resides. Sorry Lew, couldn’t resist.
BTW- Took your advice and watched Austin City Limits last night. The D B Truckers were ok but that Bingham kid was great imo. Thanks for the heads up.
By Wayne in Utah
February 8, 2009 5:12 PM | Link to this
Bobbys Cox I know, I know, you love Nelson Cruz. You know what, he might have turned the corner and maybe he will become the cleanup hitter Texas is hoping he will. He certainly did NOT rake in any previous year. He “raked” to the tune of about 230/275/385 before 2008.
IF, he has turned the corner, Texas will NOT trade him. If they are willing to trade him, then it probably means 1 of 2 things: 1) We have offered a SOLID major league pitcher or 2) They don’t think he will turn the corner.
It’s kinda like us saying that Martin Prado is the next star second baseman because he hit 330 last year. Let’s see him continue to do it before we pronounce him the next Roberto Alomar (I know, I am stretching it a bit, but just to make a point).
By Bobby's Cox perfect world
February 8, 2009 5:19 PM | Link to this
Martin Prado hitting 2nd. Nelson Cruz hitting 4th.
By greg
February 8, 2009 5:24 PM | Link to this
Thank God. AJ has signed somewhere else. The last thing we needed was his Baby Huey face grinning every time he whiffs on a head high fastball.
By Random
February 8, 2009 5:25 PM | Link to this
#1 A.Jones Fan: “Sorry man, Lowe was certainly the can’t get Peavy, can’t get Burnett…..who is #3 on ESPN’s top FA?”
Nope, you’re wrong here as well.
After Sabathia, Lowe was the best FA SP.
Braves did not go after him initially for about the same reason(s) they did not go after Sabathia.
Once Peavy and Burnett did not materialize, they changed their plans, pretty much having to go after Lowe.
He was never the Braves third choice due to lower quality, but due to higher cost/agent.
By Chuck James was Solid until the 6th!!!
February 8, 2009 5:25 PM | Link to this
Lew Yeh I had MLB XTRA Innings last year. It is great! I live in Trenton, NJ now, so I get all Mets, Phils and Yanks games for free as it is…That is a bonus but I do love The XTRA Innings package I was just wondering if you had to buy both seperately (MLB NEtwork too)….Which unfortunately, you do. Oh well, from what I heard it’s well worth it. Thanks again for the info…
By Billy
February 8, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this
1 A.Jones FanGaffs Peavy - Couldn’t negotiate a trade (ok I will give the FO this one, probably not their fault)
Frank Wren is on Record and said he gave Towers exactly what he wanted twice, not once, twice. It has been revealed that Peavy vetoed the trade twice. The info on that is out there, find it.
Furcal (Braves FO laughing stock of baseball on this one) Smoltz (again laughing stock)
The slime agent used the term sheet to negotiate with the Dodgers, unethical and the Braves are only the laughing stock of baseball in your world only.
AJ Burnett (very public that Braves considered #1 target….OOPS)
AJ’s wife has a fear of flying and he took the larger offer from the Yankees and the quickest and safest form of travel for his wife. There is no OOPS except from you.
Glavine (just see the posts previous)
*Glavine is still pondering an offer”
AJones (not many supporters here but I believe even DOB inferred that he “would not be suprised” if he ended up a Brave.
Andruw signed with the Rangers and I would be surprised if he makes the team
You twist and spin, but just because you say it does not make it so. Wren has done a remarkable and patient job so far under the circumstances this wacky off season held for him and the Braves.
By Moby Grape
February 8, 2009 5:33 PM | Link to this
My response to you was that you’re saying Texas only produces good offensive stats at home.BobbysCox
actually I did not say that was the only reason. I meant what I said quite literally. You interpreted it somewhat more severely than it was stated. And excuse me for interjecting pitching into the mix, guess I should have just escalated your argument. Silly me.Next time I’ll know better.
By BravesAC
February 8, 2009 5:37 PM | Link to this
If you put Wren’s actions this year - bye bye Smoltz, lowball Glavine, take a hike Andruw even if Cox wants ya - with his treatment of Ripken and the flack they had in Baltimore, the message from Wren is consistent - “I’m management and players, coaches,etc are employees”. Wren must not be a vegetarian - he gets off on feasting on a team’s sacred cows. In my opinion, Wren is a little man with an ego problem who willinspire little loyalty in his “employees”.
By Moby Grape
February 8, 2009 5:38 PM | Link to this
Where are you guys coming up with the belief that a guy with a .240 career batting average and who hit .219 last season in a great hitters park is all of a sudden a sure thing for a .260-.275 average this year. Maybe so, but I think it’s somewhat iffier than you think.
By JR Bob Dobbs
February 8, 2009 5:42 PM | Link to this
Chuck James - lt seems that others have already answered your questions. I get the MLB Network off Comcast Cable in Montgomery County, Maryland. I believe I’m getting it as part of a $5 per month “sports package” that also gets about a dozen other sports-specific channels (including NBA, NFL, golf, Speedvision, and a couple of regional Fox sports, though I don’t get Sports South and wish I did), though possible I’d be getting it without that extra $5. It is separate from the MLB Extra Innings Package that I’ll probably be shelling out $160 or so for again this coming season.
Speaking of Extra Innings, has anyone here subscribed to the MLB.TV online product rather than the cable/Direct TV Extra Innings package? I got an ad from them the other day noting a reduced price and the ability this year to overlay home radio broadcasts over the video. I’ve been dubious in the past both because of possible bandwidth issues (I have a cable modem, but wonder if watching games online would suffer from the “jerkies” with bad frame rates, data interruptions, and such) and because I want to watch my baseball on the biggest screen I have, which is my TV rather than my computer screen. I figure this should be a fairly computer-savvy group (this is a blog after all), so I’d welcome any comments any anyone with MLB.TV online experience…
ps - Chuck James…I grew up about five miles from him on the west side of metro ATL (Chuck in Austell and me in Lithia Springs). Definitely not the most intellectual of the Bravos’ pitchers. But then again, there’s always Pascual Perez…
By richbrave
February 8, 2009 5:49 PM | Link to this
Now that ‘DRUW JONES is off the table maybe we have the juice to sign WIL OHMAN although I don’t believe 2.5 mill for 2 as some have suggested here will do the trick. I think he’s got a similar offer from the BRAVES already maybe even slightly better. I’m guessing he wants four at 3+ mill per I believe. He wants this to be his big payday. He’s worth it. Pay the man, and see if one of the three pretenders is worth the final 25 roster out of ST.
By #1 A.Jones Fan
February 8, 2009 5:50 PM | Link to this
*Bubdylan * 4:59 post
That was funny, seriously. Nice shot.
By Steve from OH
February 8, 2009 5:51 PM | Link to this
PECOTA projects the four-headed monster of Fernando Tatis, Dan Murphy, Ryan Church and Nick Evans to put up a combined line of .256/.318/.415 this season, according to this Espn insider piece.
By Original Jon
February 8, 2009 5:59 PM | Link to this
RichBrave Guess you dont pay much attention do you? The Braves are no longer pursuing Wil Ohman.
By BravoMan
February 8, 2009 6:01 PM | Link to this
With the recent Ohman offer pulled off the table and the size of Glavine’s recent contract offer, you can bet that Wren’s got one final move up his sleeve about our OF situation. I hope that Glavine decides to return to the Braves for his final year to provide us with depth and a good chance to land that 5th spot in the rotation. His loyalty will be tested as Wren clearly wants to win and is planning on using the last of our financial resourses to land an OF power bat. I expect that bat to be either Bobby Abreu for a year or 2 at around 5-7mil. If that doesn’t happen then bet on a trade for Swisher.
By YES YES YES!
February 8, 2009 6:03 PM | Link to this
DUKE WINS AND CLEMSON LOSES! HAHA!
NORTH CAROLINA YOU’RE NEXT! GOOD LUCK CUZ YOURE GONNA NEED IT. DUKE IS ON FIRE!
By #1 A.Jones Fan
February 8, 2009 6:13 PM | Link to this
Billy
I will not respond to AJ’s wifes fears, and Furcals agent being a bad boy, just too many excuses with only one thing in common.
And as far as Wren goes, and his greatness. I can only refer to his quotes in the below article…..Now thats a way to pull in the fans!
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2009/01/11/bradley.html
By Billy
February 8, 2009 6:32 PM | Link to this
A source told Yahoo! Sports’ Tim Brown that Andruw Jones is close to signing with the Rangers. It’d be a minor league deal with no guarantees of a job. If Jones makes the team, he could be a reserve initially, with Josh Hamilton staying in center field. He’d have to really impress to push Hamilton to right field.
By Poorbrave
February 8, 2009 6:33 PM | Link to this
Billy- It has been revealed that Peavy vetoed the trade twice. The info is out there find it.
I may be wrong but I have found no info that said Peavy vetoed the trade. The only thing is what someone else said, no facts. Chipper said,” if Peavey wanted to be a Brave he would be a Brave” but no where Peavy vetoed trade,etc. Maybe DOB knows.
You may be right but if you know where info is …put it out. Thanks.
By Lew
February 8, 2009 6:39 PM | Link to this
Chuck-Used to live across the Delaware and down a few miles toward Philly-in the New Hope, Pa. area.
Anders-That’s OK. I like a good pennant race-much more if the Braves actually win it. I usually watch around 300 games a year, so obviously I don’t just watch the Braves.
Glad you enjoyed the show last night. I hadn’t even heard of Ryan Bingham, but those Texas blues may be my next music purchase. If you have HD, you should, check out the Palladia Channel. The shows on there aren’t always my cup of tea, but the sound and video quality are incredible. They cull their programming from CMT, VH1, MTV and some English sources. Great concerts on a consistent basis-everyone from Springsteen, Red Hot Chilli Peppers and ZZ Top to an old Skynyrd show (with Ronnie Van Zant and the original band). Good stuff. Check it out if you have the channel.
By Lew
February 8, 2009 6:46 PM | Link to this
Bravo Man- In the current issue of Chop Talk (which I heartily advise everyone to buy-got some great articles-about Hank), Frank Wren says in his column that there is a 50-50 chance of signing an outfielder before or during Spring Training. He also says he is not happy with the defensive capabilities among the available Free Agents, but has had discussion s with several GM’s about outfielders who will become available during ST. He also claims they have the extra outfielders and pitching to use for a trade. Pretty much exactly what DOB has reported all along. I’m betting Nick Swisher will be our left fielder for a couple years.
By 18 Wheel s of Love
February 8, 2009 6:59 PM | Link to this
Peavy vetoed it…Wren said it in a radio interview right after he signed Lowe.
By Billy
February 8, 2009 7:00 PM | Link to this
Poorbrave
Wren was quoted in one of MLB Mark Bowman’s articles saying Peavy killed the deal. There, I gave you direction and check with him…he is a good guy, he will tell you I am sure.
By Efrim
February 8, 2009 7:07 PM | Link to this
“I’m betting Nick Swisher will be our left fielder for a couple years.”
I’m for Swisher or Abreu. Someone out there other than a Diaz/Jones platoon. I mean, the Braves added 34 million in starting pitching. Much needed, for sure. But why not just go the extra mile and acquire a left fielder? May as well, in my opinion. Abreu isn’t going to command a big money deal and Swisher isn’t going to cost THAT much in prospects(He can’t, right?), so it makes sense to go after and acquire one of them if you want to compete this year- and they do, obviously. Unfortunately, you can’t count on Chipper for a full season and McCann is a catcher, so you need to add offense to cover your rear end…so to speak.
By Frank
February 8, 2009 7:12 PM | Link to this
God, I hope Wren doesn’t sign Swisher. I watched him with the W. Sox this year and quite frankly…he’s NOT what the Braves need.
I’d rather have Wren go after Dye over Dunn but if it comes down to it….if Dye can’t be had, then Dunn would be my choice.
Ya all watch, all of us bloggers have been clamoring for either Abreu, Dunn or Swisher and Frankie will sign Manny.
Hey, the Tim Hudson move (can’t remember if Timmy signed with the Braves or the Braves traded for him) but that move came out of left field. No one expected that. So I guess ya could say….things happen when ya least expect them to.
By LT-A blogger
February 8, 2009 7:13 PM | Link to this
Braves are better off platooning Diaz/B Jones than trading for Swisher.
Looking at his career numbers- why on earth would the Braves trade for him? Because he hit 35 HR 1 year (3 years ago)? He is a career .244 hitter who hit .219 last year.
Can someone please explain to me why he is of such interest.
By nolie
February 8, 2009 7:14 PM | Link to this
08 Feb 2009 Baseball
* The Mystery First baseman by Posnanski*
Time for another guessing game. I’m thinking of two baseball players. Both first basemen. Both right-handed hitters. Both were instant stars in the big leagues. I’ll tell you that one of the players is Albert Pujols, Prince Albert, Albert the Great, the guy who, if he stays healthy and motivated, could put up some of the most remarkable offensive numbers in baseball history.
And our mystery player … well, what can I tell you about him? He never led the league in home runs. He never led the league in RBIs. He was admired as a great player when he was young, but I would say the admiration for him as, well, muted. He only started in two All-Star Games his whole career. He only MADE five, which is just odd to think about. Steve Sax started two All-Star Games and made five. You could argue pretty persuasively that our mystery player was a lot better than Steve Sax. Steve Garvey made 10 All-Star Games and started nine. You could argue pretty persuasively that our mystery player was a lot better than Steve Garvey.
I’m sure when you look at the numbers you will know who our mystery player is … shoot, you probably already know.
Pujols (first eight years): .334/.425/.624, 319 homers, 977 RBIs, 947 runs, 2 MVPs, 170 OPS+. Mystery (first eight years): .330/.452/.600, 257 homers, 854 RBIs, 785 runs, 2 MVPs, 182 OPS+.
So, what do you think of that? And it should be noted that, for reasons mostly beyond his control, the mystery player actually played in 163 fewer games his first eight years … almost a full season. So the counting numbers are much closer than they might seem. Look at them per 162 games:
Pujols (first eight years): .334, 45 doubles, 2 triples, 42 homers, 128 RBIs, 124 runs, 91 walks, 170 OPS+. Mystery (first eight years): .330, 37 doubles, 1 triple, 39 homers, 129 RBIs, 118 runs, 132 walks, 182 OPS+.
Not bad. Mystery player seems to stand up quite well to the great Albert Pujols. In some ways, he was even better.
Our mystery player is especially prominent now because our mystery player is …
Frank Thomas.
Rest of the article in case you’re interested.
By Billy Walsh
February 8, 2009 7:19 PM | Link to this
#1 Chipper Fan
Nick Swisher is a career .244 hitter. What makes you think he is going to bat 275 (a career high) next year? Tom Glavine is coming off a 2-4 season with a 5 era. He is coming back from a major injury and he is 42 years old. How is a potential three million dollar contract a low ball offer? This a business. Use your head not your heart. I give Wren a lot of credit with letting go aging braves icons. Its time to move on. Tom Glavine has a lot of nerve mulling over a million plus dollar offer when the unemployment rate in this country is over 7 % and people are losing their homes. I lost a lot of respect for him during the whole labor negotiations during the 94 strike..now I have no respect for him.
By Billy
February 8, 2009 7:24 PM | Link to this
Poorbrave - #1 A.Jones Fan
Bobby Cox on XM Radio Jan 9th
Bobby was on XM this morning. Here are the things that stood out:
Smoltz called him 2 days ago and told him he was close to agreeing with the Red Sox. Bobby told John to give him a day or two to try and get things going on our end but that he wasn’t able to do enough to keep John around. It wasn’t clear how aware the organization was on just how close he was to going to Boston until he called Bobby 2 days ago.
Said John’s goal is to be ready April 1 but that the Sox have told him to slow it down and not push so hard because they would rather have him in the middle of the year and down the stretch. Thinks John is going to have a big year.
They met with Lowe, Boras and one of Boras’ assistants yesterday in Atlanta for 8 hours. Thinks Lowe could be a great pitcher for 3-4 years (I like how he threw that 4th year in there!). Said he is a smart guy and even smarter pitcher who is in excellent shape.
Bobby also said it would come down to Atlanta and some teams in the NE.
Said Burnett really wanted to play in Atlanta but it was because his wife would not fly and because they own a huge horse farm in upstate Maryland that has a direct train route to NYC.
Started to talk about Peavy, about how much they wanted him and how Frank gave them exactly what they were asking for twice. He then stopped mid-sentence and said something like he didn’t know many details. It was clear he was getting into an area that he wasn’t comfortable talking about, which was probably Peavy declining the trade.
By kirkinga
February 8, 2009 7:31 PM | Link to this
Well, ok, now we have some credible information about Andruw and he’s going to the Rangers. And he’s going to sign a minor league deal in the $500k range. I can’t believe it would’ve hurt the Braves to offer him the same deal, it really is no risk and has a low impact on payroll.
JR Bob Dobbs, the MLB.tv package is excellent. They’ve really dropped the price too. The Fox and ESPN games that are blacked out are a pain, but otherwise it’s a great product.
By Brian
February 8, 2009 7:36 PM | Link to this
Do the Braves have any interest in Garrett Anderson, and does anyone here think he would be a good fit for us? I know he’s not spectacular, but I’ve always thought he was an above average left fielder and hitter. Is he a righty as well? Can’t remember…
By kirkinga
February 8, 2009 7:51 PM | Link to this
I don’t know why the Braves couldn’r get together with Ohman, but I think JC Romero and Mahay and others proved that it’s worth paying for guys that can come in late, before your closer and get an out or out of an inning.
We’ve seen this time and gain from the Braves. They just refuse to keep lefties who can get people out, other than Gonzalez.
I hope they have something working for a LF, not convinced that Swisher is better than a Diaz/Jones platoon.
If there was one lesson to be learned from last year it is that you can never have too much starting pitching. Glavine is right, if healthy, he is the best option for a 5th spot. People discount the fact he was a leader in Quality Starts in 2007.
This is a curious time, this short while before ST, you get the impression something is happening, you hope something(s) is about to go down, but there’s also this nagging doubt that anything at all will happen.
By ernesto
February 8, 2009 7:57 PM | Link to this
Why would Druw take a minor league contract with the Rangers vs. a minor league deal w/ the Braves.
Quit frankly, he’d have a better shot earning playing time here than there.
Curious.
I could probably google this and find out but I’ll be lazy and ask instead…what did we do about Chuckie? Did we re-resign him after we let him go? I thought I’d heard that was the plan.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 8:02 PM | Link to this
Braves would’ve brought Andruw back on a minor league deal, but I’m told he (or Boras) indicated that if he signed a minor league deal it would be with Texas, because Boras liked idea of him working with highly regarded Rangers hitting instructor Rudy Jaramillo to try to get his career back on track. Braves never actually made a minor-league contract offer, I’m told, because it was made clear to them that he wasn’t going to take a minor league deal from another team if the Rangers offered one….
Richbrave, Braves aren’t pursuing Ohman. They say they don’t have room for a fourth LH in bullpen (have Gonzalez, O’Flaherty and Logan).
By keylargo
February 8, 2009 8:16 PM | Link to this
Ernesto
Chuck James is still listed as a free agent on MLB.com.
By richbrave
February 8, 2009 8:17 PM | Link to this
ORIGINAL JON:
From now on I’ll rely on you for my news.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 8:24 PM | Link to this
We’re going to see a flurry of free-agent signings in the next few days, I’m fairly certain. Don’t know if Braves will sign an OF now, or wait until spring training to try to trade for one of the two Yankees or possibly another player.
Yankees aren’t likely to trade Swisher or Nady until spring training.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 8:27 PM | Link to this
Chuck James is going to miss most, if not all, of the season recovering from shoulder surgery, folks. So whether they sign him now or later, or at all, really has little if any bearing on this Braves season.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 8:32 PM | Link to this
Well, we won’t have to worry about Blake Griffin getting shortchanged for Player of the Year. It’s become quite clear the dude will win every POY award easily, as he’s been far and away the best player.
By keylargo
February 8, 2009 8:44 PM | Link to this
Johnny Fontaine just got the part.
The Godfather on AMC now.
By StingerSplash
February 8, 2009 8:52 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Don’t know what you did to Areopagus, but it sounds like he had a big dose of William F. Buckley Jr. before posting (see, William F. was quite loquacious with an unmatched vocabulary at his dispense. But that post was lugubrious. As Casey Stengel said, you could look it up.) Too bad Ohman won’t be coming back. Need more cool dudes like him around. It’s not too bad Andruw isn’t coming back. Love what he did as a member of the Braves, but … he ain’t the same player anymore. He needs a chance to reprove his worth. And Atlanta can’t afford that in a number of ways. I don’t drink Pepsi for a number of reasons, but that Berlin Wall commercial that was just on (King of the Hill is on as I wait for yet another Family Guy repeat … come on, McFarlane, giving us something new already) only solidifies my opposition to Pepsi and its new Korean Air Lines logo and my allegiance to Coca-Cola. Tuesday night — BB King and Buddy Guy at the Shoreline Ballroom in Hilton Head. I. Am. So. There.
By lexbrave
February 8, 2009 8:53 PM | Link to this
thanks dob, i was really curious if there was a good reason that the braves hadn’t offered andruw a minor league deal.. i assumed if he would take one from texas he would have taken one from the braves.. i just figured the braves just didn’t bother to offer him one and i was really puzzled why.
i was wondering if you had an opinion on whether or not you think its a good idea to be so open publicly with their intentions. it seems to me that if they decided they didn’t want ohman back they could have just sat on their offer and then when he signed elsewhere save face. i don’t see the benefit of announcing they were pulling their offer. if anything it sort of makes them look a bit childish. sort of with the furcal fiasco. seem like they could have just said they were disappointed with how his agent behaved and quietly not take calls from him rather than looking like a sore loser in the press.
any thoughts on whether you think its better to be more vocal or quietly handle your business like it appears they did more under john’s reign as gm.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 8:57 PM | Link to this
If anyone’s watching the Grammys, can you tell me what happened to Coldplay? Didn’t they actually used to be pretty cool, about 7-8 years ago?
By dan
February 8, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this
Wren is going to have a lot of ‘splainen to do if he allows Glavine to walk as well.
Personally, I think they should have given Andruw another chance to play CF.
Dave, if what you say is true about Boras directing Andruw to Texas because of a hitting coach is ture, Andruw needs to take control of his own career. If he had listened to the hitting coaches in Atlanta telling him to look to right field, he might not be in this predicament.
We need a LF. Bottom line.
By Wayne in Utah
February 8, 2009 9:01 PM | Link to this
Blake Griffin, isn’t he the second baseman for the Blue Jays??
By Larry
February 8, 2009 9:08 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB do you have any insight on the Frenchy and Johnson arbitration cases? Are they nearing the end or are they going to a hearing?
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 9:09 PM | Link to this
lexbrave, the Braves actually stopped pursuing Ohman after they got Logan in the Vazquez trade in late December (and had already claimed O’Flaherty on waivers).
Braves didn’t come out and say they weren’t pursuing Ohman anymore, because they weren’t saying anything publicly about specific players.
When I talked to Ohman, he never said the Braves were still offering him a contract, but rather that “lines of communication were open,” etc.
So one of those semantics things, I guess. Wish I’d known earlier, I’d have reported it before this weekend.
By Canadianbrave
February 8, 2009 9:10 PM | Link to this
No I can assure you Coldplay was never cool!
By CharlieAlphaBravo
February 8, 2009 9:12 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Clearly, you are mistaken. I assure you, Coldplay was never cool. Now if we could just figure out why Miley Cyrus and Jennifer Hudson are famous…
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 9:18 PM | Link to this
CharlieAlphaBravo: You might be right. I just remember after that first album came out, before they’d had a single hit, how different that “Yellow” and other tunes on it sounded from anything else that was out.
But upon further review (and after watching that performance tonight) I’m gonna agree with you: They were never cool.
By SeaAtl
February 8, 2009 9:20 PM | Link to this
My daughters are telling me that the Kings are playing on the Grammys tonight, but I’m skeptical & suspect they’re trying to trick me into just watching the award show………………………..
By cabravesfan
February 8, 2009 9:21 PM | Link to this
Hey all can I ask a random favor? The Grammy’s are not shown out here until 8:00..can we hold off spoilers? (gotta love that the grammy’s are taking place 15 miles from my house and I get them on tape delay) Thanks!
By Lew
February 8, 2009 9:21 PM | Link to this
DOB-No, never. Not even 7-8 years ago.
By Canadianbrave
February 8, 2009 9:22 PM | Link to this
Is anyone else concerned about the Brave’s depth in the catcher’s spot or are we adequate. Is Sammons good enough if Mccann goes down for any length of time?
By Steve from OH
February 8, 2009 9:23 PM | Link to this
Coldplay? Cool? And I thought I knew DOB….
By Lew
February 8, 2009 9:24 PM | Link to this
If Andruw could hit with Chipper all winter and still not come out of it with a clue, I’m not so sure what a hitting coach in Texas will be able to do for him. He needs to listen or it does no good.
By Canadianbrave
February 8, 2009 9:24 PM | Link to this
We’ll Jennifer Hudson does have some pipes, Miley Cyrus…my son thinks she’s hot.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 9:32 PM | Link to this
If the Braves can get Bobby Abreu for the $4 mill or even less that some believe he’ll have to sign for, to me they’d be crazy not to sign him. Seriously, dude can still hit. Don’t know what that would do to Matt Diaz’s playing opportunities, since Abreu is not a platoon-type player, but as much as we like Diaz, if you can get Abreu to play LF….
By Plato
February 8, 2009 9:34 PM | Link to this
O’Gawd-Almighty, thank you Rangers, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!!
THANK YOU!!!!
By bravefaninok
February 8, 2009 9:37 PM | Link to this
wren signed ross as backup catcher
By Interested Observer
February 8, 2009 9:38 PM | Link to this
The Braves better be right about Logan, Ridgway, or the Irish guy. They have always tried to get by on the cheap with their lefty relievers. Usually, that means when we’re in the pennant race, we have to give up prospects to try to rent a decent one for a couple of months. Then we have to replace them after the season because they get too expensive. In the meantime we’re subjected to the likes of Tom Martin, Macay McBride, Will Ledezma, and Royce Ring. Not a very good track record.
By N Nine (eta56)
February 8, 2009 9:40 PM | Link to this
” Don’t know what that would do to Matt Diaz’s playing opportunities”
Pretty sure that 50k bonus for 650 AB’s would be…..wait never mind.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
February 8, 2009 9:41 PM | Link to this
Canadianbrave - Dave Ross is the back-up catcher; he signed at two-year deal back in December.
How many times is Al Green going to be on the Grammy’s tonight? I’m not complaining. He’s the best thing, so far. (Which isn’t saying much.)
By N Nine (eta56)
February 8, 2009 9:43 PM | Link to this
Did you guys read what Ron Washington said about Andruw? You cann pretty much delete AJ and put Sosa instead. blah blah blah.
From DOB’s comments, sounds like Boras was in complete control even if he DID want to be a Brave….
By Shawn G
February 8, 2009 9:49 PM | Link to this
Plus Coldplay stole Viva la Vida: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUhFLiw6h6s&feature=channel_page
By Canadianbrave
February 8, 2009 9:50 PM | Link to this
chuckw/deadjounalist
Thanks..I had a little cognitive slippage!
By kirkinga
February 8, 2009 9:52 PM | Link to this
Night of Safe Choices at the Grammy’s. They really could use some fresh voters/judges.
By CharlieAlphaBravo
February 8, 2009 9:53 PM | Link to this
Also, Kanye West is the most incredibly over-rated artist since Monet. Seriously, they’re just a bunch of dots.
By Canadianbrave
February 8, 2009 9:53 PM | Link to this
bravefaninok
Thank you as well!
By Plato
February 8, 2009 9:54 PM | Link to this
I’m afraid not signing Ohman will come back to haunt us. Don’t understand the Braves’ lack of interest in a pretty good lefty, and KNOWN commodity…
I don’t feel as comfortable with Wren at the helm. Doesn’t seem as (I really don’t know what word to put here) as JS. JS just commanded so much universal respect around MLB. Never felt he was being played by anyone. Don’t feel that way, so far, with Wren.
By Plato
February 8, 2009 9:58 PM | Link to this
Between the Blog and Grammys I’m confused…
Did the Braves sign Diana Ross?
By chuckw/deadjournalist
February 8, 2009 9:59 PM | Link to this
Dave Grohl is one cool cat. Besides Nirvana and Foo Fighters he’s played drums on national TV with Tom Petty and Paul McCartney.
By mbatl
February 8, 2009 10:00 PM | Link to this
“Doesn’t seem as (I really don’t know what word to put here) as JS”
That’s a funny line coming from a guy with the screen name “Plato.”
By Swisher Kool Aid
February 8, 2009 10:07 PM | Link to this
Haven’t drunk the Nick Swisher Kool Aid that seems to be flowing here.
Nady? No way. He’s a one year rental that will cost us prospects. Swisher? Why? The guy is a career .244 hitter. In 5 big league seasons he had that one 35 HR and 90 plus RBI year. What? He’s going to come to Atlanta and suddenly carry the team? Swisher ain’t dog food, but I don’t think he’s worth prospects no matter how long he’s under control for. If all that is important is to increase the HR output of the 2009 Braves outfield, then stop sticking punch and Judy outfielders in the slots in center and left! (Not to mention that punch out and Judy we have in right) The only true letdown in the outfield power numbers last year was Frenchy. The rest of the guys the Braves marched out there have never been home run hitters. Diaz may pop a few, but he was out most of the season.
A one year deal for Abreau makes more sense, especially if the Braves believe their own hype about the OF prospects they have on the farm.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 10:17 PM | Link to this
Someone send out the bat signal for Radiohead to come save these Grammys. Please.
By i cant take it any more
February 8, 2009 10:18 PM | Link to this
I find it odd that andruw can get released from the dodgers and then sign with another club ALL before abreu or dunn can get a deal. I wonder if joe satriani is enjoying coldplay win song of the year.
By winthrop09
February 8, 2009 10:22 PM | Link to this
if coldplay is supposed to be cool, then im content being uncool listening to radiohead. by far best performance tonight
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 10:33 PM | Link to this
winthrop09: no doubt. they’d have been better without the dozen extra drums and horns, but that’s the Grammy way — overkill. Nevertheless, Thom Yorke still rose above the banal proceedings for a few minutes during this mostly horrible event.
By Poorbrave
February 8, 2009 10:38 PM | Link to this
Thanks Billy & 18 wheels for info.
Go get Abreau!!!!!!!!!!
By rainman34
February 8, 2009 10:38 PM | Link to this
never really listened to radiohead. by far best performance tonight unreal. i say offer dunn and bobby abreu one year six million deals and let it be first comes first signed.
By rainman34
February 8, 2009 10:38 PM | Link to this
never really listened to radiohead. by far best performance tonight unreal. i say offer dunn and bobby abreu one year six million deals and let it be first comes first signed.
By the artist formerly known as too hot for teacher
February 8, 2009 10:52 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB - yes coldplay used to be cool…until they ripped off Joe Satriani. They completely stole their hook for Viva la Vida.
I really liked McCartney’s performance. I love that McCartney doesn’t ignore his musical past like so many of these acts try to do - plus he had Dave Grohl jammin the drums…which is always cool.
And thanks for all the updates this offseason - you stay on top of this stuff and keep the fans informed better than anybody in the country.
By spotts
February 8, 2009 10:54 PM | Link to this
Boras didn’t think that Andruw would’ve been able to get enough help from TP?
oh right….
By winthrop09
February 8, 2009 10:55 PM | Link to this
DOB, you ever listen to modern skirts?
By athensmatt
February 8, 2009 10:56 PM | Link to this
DOB,
you’re watching that crap? i flipped to it right when gwyneth paltrow was introducing radiohead and i’m actually sorry i caught it.
if you go to GSN, you can catch the last half of a world poker tour episode. gus hansen just took a monster chip lead.
By Daybed Wagmoe
February 8, 2009 10:58 PM | Link to this
I missed the Grammy show tonight, but can’t say that I regret not watching it. I saw that U2 was supposed to play — I assume the played their new single, which is pretty lame IMO.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:08 PM | Link to this
The Bo Diddley tribute — stellar. A true giant of music, and glad they had B.B. King and Buddy Guy to jam in his honor. And Mayer, though I’m no fan of his pretty singing, is one hell of a guitar player. But Keith Urban, for a Bo Diddley tribute? It’s like they’re contractually obligated to use guys like Timberlake and Urban in multiple songs if they use them in one….
winthrop09, yes, Modern Skirts is a very good band. Like them a lot. By the way, you ever hear them on the R.E.M. “Finest Worksongs” tribute album recorded at the 40 Watt a few years ago? They did a great cover of “Perfect Circle.” Patterson Hood did a tremendous version of “Second Guessing.”
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:09 PM | Link to this
Daybed, it’s not over. But you sure haven’t missed much.
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:16 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB - yes coldplay used to be cool�until they ripped off Joe Satriani. They completely stole their hook for Viva la Vida the artist formerly known as…
Dude, if they were marginally cool at some point, it ended long before their most recent album. They became increasingly annoying for at least the past five years. When they decided to don those silly costumes for every recent performance, it underscored their precious cheesiness.
By N Nine (eta56)
February 8, 2009 11:18 PM | Link to this
DOB I was curious if you have visited Lake Tahoe area. Any boarding at Heavenly?
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:20 PM | Link to this
OK, now we’re talking: Robert Plant and Alison Krauss, with T-Bone Burnett on guitar … I’m down with this.
By rotty
February 8, 2009 11:21 PM | Link to this
Swisher is a decoy and a waste of trade pieces. If he wasn’t a swiss army knife position player he would still be in the minors.
The Braves need a position starter not a guy who is a jack of all trades & master of none. We have plenty of these types of players (now and over the years) and guess what when they play every day they stink.
Abreu or Dunn - please.
By THE BEAR
February 8, 2009 11:21 PM | Link to this
I took a thorough look at Swisher’s record of 4 years. What it boils down to is he is a very good utility player. He can play the outfield and first base but he is NOT THE ANSWER to the Braves’ needs in that no. 4 batting slot.
Abreau is head and shoulders above Swisher in every category and the Braves would be well advised to sign Abreau as soon as possible. He will not be available for much longer. What I don’t understand is why the Yankees just walked away from him without even offering him any kind of contract. Maybe he didn’t kiss up to the Steinbrenner kids.
By Jim
February 8, 2009 11:22 PM | Link to this
Abreu’s “extra value” to Braves is that he is also a career RF. If JF doesn’t improve from last season, Abreu can fill that hole and B’s still have Diaz/Anderson in LF (if Schafer or Blanco can hold down CF). If JF is “back,” then Abreu is everyday LF with Anderson/Schafer/Blanco in CF and Diaz as RH PH. B’s will not be able to carry one of Schafer/Anderson/Blanco if they get Abreu, or Nady.
If B’s get Abreu or Nady, will they have room for both Diaz and Norton. Diaz is probably better fielder and can catch, if necessary.
Is B’s choice to sign Abreu for
By StingerSplash
February 8, 2009 11:24 PM | Link to this
would love to see the Braves get Abreu to play LF for a couple of years until Heyward et al are ready. And it looks like it might come cheaply enough. Dude’s been a heckuva player for quite a while.
By Daybed Wagmoe
February 8, 2009 11:25 PM | Link to this
It’s not over? Well, I won’t be watching any of it anyways since I don’t have a TV.
I agree - Coldplay is not cool, despite having the R.E.M. association/friendship. Coldplay’s lack of coolness was made official in “40 Year Old Virgin” — “You know how I know you’re gay? You listen to Coldplay.”
And not to harp on it, but the new U2 single sounds like they’re trying (and failing) to imitate Radiohead. But maybe that’s just me…
By Wayne in Utah
February 8, 2009 11:30 PM | Link to this
Dave What is an old fart like Robert Plant doing hanging out with a young babe like Alison Krause???
Dirty old man!!
:-)
By David O'Brien
February 8, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this
N Nine: Haven’t had the pleasure, but I would sure like to get up there. Also haven’t been to Park City, Utah. I’ve boarded at a bunch of Colorado spots and at Whistler/Blackcomb. Nowhere else. Yet.
By mbatl
February 8, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this
Robert Plant summed it up perfectly in his best album acceptance speech: “in the old days we would’ve called this selling out.”
Amen.
By Larry
February 8, 2009 11:39 PM | Link to this
I think Swisher is the best fit. No he isn’t a high average but he hits as many homeruns as our whole outfield did last year. He’s very versatile, plays all outfield positions and first base. We could still use Diaz in left at times while giving Anderson and Kotchman days off against lefties.
By Braves Fan n NC
February 8, 2009 11:41 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Are the braves looking into trading for Alex Rios? The guy has great power potential and is a player that I think will have a breakout year. Plus he is only making like 6 million this season.
Thanks
By N8
February 8, 2009 11:52 PM | Link to this
“And Mayer, though I’m no fan of his pretty singing, is one hell of a guitar player. But Keith Urban, for a Bo Diddley tribute?” DOB
Don’t think that me replying to this is the beginning of another rant towards you (or anybody). I’m done with “arguing” the music thing.
Just wanted to point out that no matter how “pretty” Keith Urban is, and he is a pretty man. That he’s actually a damn fine guitar player himself. Did session work for almost all of the 90’s, before he “made it” in the states.
That said, I happen to agree with you. Probably not the right guy for a Bo Didley tribute. Could have used a younger guy like Johnny Lang, or even Brad Paisley would have been a better choice, if they wanted to insist on using a country star.
But I’m glad you acknowledged Mayer’s axe-work. Becausse regarless of how annoying he (and his voice is), the dude can play.
By N8
February 9, 2009 12:02 AM | Link to this
DOB
If you like blues stuff, check out the Tony Vega Band. I stumbled across them on I-Tunes. 3 Piece band out of Texas.
That dude can play as well.
By Steve McP
February 9, 2009 12:04 AM | Link to this
Rios has a full no trade clause for 2009/10
By Chop Chop
February 9, 2009 12:05 AM | Link to this
Coldplay could be cool to people who are younger, I guess. I’m not yet 30 (29), but I understand that groups like U2 and R.E.M. (a group I’ve never cared for) are old farts to a lot of kids. For people born around 1990 (give or take a couple of years), a group like Coldplay came along when those people hit their early teens. A lot of people really start to get into music around that age. As they get older, the more musically curious people currently in their late teens and twenties will find that Coldplay was just an offshoot of many other super-pop groups. I was lucky enough to have Metallica be the first group I really got into. Hard rock was what I cut my teeth on. I found my way to other stuff over time, but I know that Metallica was, at least at one time, the real f*** deal.
Let me just add that there is no way in holy hell that Coldplay should have won a rock Grammy. D-Bag Paltrow said as much when he accepted an award tonight. It’s kinda like the quite memorable time when Jethro Tull beat Metallica out for a best hard rock/metal performance Grammy. (And yes, Metallica was up for the Grammy Coldplay won tonight. Screw you, Coldplay. B*******.)
Note: Metallica did win the best metal performance Grammy tonight.
By Steve McP
February 9, 2009 12:09 AM | Link to this
AND what would they be wiling to trade one of their marquis players?
By brent a.
February 9, 2009 12:14 AM | Link to this
Maybe it’s been said,
but, it sounds like Will Ohman’s wife’s comment about “doesn’t he want to talk to actual Braves players” was really quite telling.
From now on, let’s get all our scoop from her! :)
By Ronald Millsaps
February 9, 2009 12:26 AM | Link to this
Though he had a down year, the Braves need to sign Jeff Francoeur soon and do so at a price comparable to his asking price.
Why?
Why not?
Yes, 2008 was a poor season, but let’s look at the big picture: He’s 25 and in the best shape of his life, more flexible, not as bulky, a lot more prepared for the rigors of a baseball season, which he has played through, by the way, and provided great defense when he probably should’ve gotten nights off.
Can we attribute his poor statistics last season to his ill-preparation in that offseason? Yes, we largely can. Conversely, there is much reason to believe that he will bounce back strongly in 2009 and probably produce his best season to date.
Chipper Jones, the best hitter in the game and reigning NL batting champion, gave Francoeur a ringing endorsement and said he has not seen Francoeur swing the bat better, which is quite a statement. I’ll take the professional opinion of Chipper Jones as what it is: quite substantial.
Also, Francoeur’s offseason work is the equivalent of studying vigorously for an exam; he just hasn’t taken it yet. He’s working very hard to develop his God-given talent and has made great strides this offseason.
I agree with Chipper’s statement that this team already has a cleanup hitter. I think he’ll produce his best season to date and will provide a career high in swings over the fence. To give a more-concrete prediction, I think his 2009 numbers will exceed Mark Teixeira’s 2008.
I like McCann in the “five” hole, too. I think this offense will be stacked this season, and I think we’ll see the best Braves team this decade, with the possible exception of 2002, a team that should’ve won it all.
By the way, Francoeur had a good September.
Projected statistics: .274 37 HR 123 RBI
By Bobby's Cox
February 9, 2009 12:28 AM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox perfect world
EXCELLENT!
By Duke
February 9, 2009 12:29 AM | Link to this
Why so harsh on Coldplay? They have made some really good music. DOB, im dissapointed. The Scientist, Fix You, The Hardest Part, Clocks. What is wrong with you guys? Also, maybe the reason Keith Urban was playing with Mayer, B.B. and Buddy is because he is one Hell of a guitarist….. Radiohead was good as always and of course Allison Kraus and Robert Plant were good… You dont need to tell anyone that
By N Nine (eta55)
February 9, 2009 12:34 AM | Link to this
DOB You have hit some BIG mountains! Whister is on the to-do-list. Each year the group picks out somewhere new to board. Going to Tahoe this time around. Didn’t know there was around15 mountain resorts just area that lake! Ill let you know how Heavenly rides in a few weeks.
By Bobby's Cox
February 9, 2009 12:35 AM | Link to this
wayne in UT
well if we can’t get Nelson, then i sure as hell hope we don’t get Swisher. If you didn’t like my Prado/Cruz rants in 2008/early ‘09, respectively, wait till we have Swisher in LF hitting .238/17/78 and .215 with RISP.
Nady and Abreau would be my top 2 choices, then maybe even Dunn.
If Wren says we have pitching and outfielders to trade like Lew says, then why not go strong for Cruz, especially if Jaramillo can turn AJ around?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
February 9, 2009 12:57 AM | Link to this
Responding to Dan’s comments concerning Tom Glavine and Frank Wren at 9:01 p.m.
Actually, Tom Glavine is the one who will have some explaining to do if he chooses not to accept the current contract that has been offered.
I’ll make two very pertinent comparisons.
The Mets fifth starter is Tim Redding who won 10 games in 33 starts last year pitching for the Nationals. He will be paid a whopping 2.25 million this season.
The Phillies fifth starter will be either Kyle Kendrick or J.A.Happ. Both will make the league minimum. Kendrick won 11 games in 30 starts last season.
Glavine has no viable reason to not accept the Braves current offer. None. The lefty was 2-4 in 13 starts last year. He has made more than 128 million in 22 seasons. The Braves 2-3 million offer is more than acceptable if one looks at what other fifth starters in our division are being paid.
By nolie
February 9, 2009 1:20 AM | Link to this
Between the Blog and Grammys I’m confused…
Did the Braves sign Diana Ross? Plato
yeah, she is gonna sing The Star Spangled Banner while warming up the starting pitcher. Great piskup IMO
By Mike S
February 9, 2009 1:26 AM | Link to this
Chop Chop, Saw Metallica live twice last week up in NY/NJ (and twice out west in December). They can still bring it, no question about that.
By Wayne in Utah
February 9, 2009 1:41 AM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox I just don’t see our guys going strong for Cruz. I think it will be one and done. I like Abreu and Nady (even if he is a rental). I am not as down on Swisher as you are. He is a bit less than Dunn w/ the bat, and a lot more w/ the glove.
To be honest, I will be OK with anybody they pickup, cause so far, they haven’t asked my opinion, and I ain’t gonna become a Rockies or Giants fan over night. Get my drift.
:-)
Coach Definitely agree on Glavine, unless he wants to become a 2 or a 3 on a losing team. (not that the Braves are guaranteed to be a winner, but I like our chances if we add one more piece to the OF equation.
Nite folks….
PS: I bet Diana Ross can hit better than Corky!
By Patrick
February 9, 2009 1:47 AM | Link to this
DOB, I must respectfully disagree with you about Coldplay. Sure, they can be cheesy, but Viva La Vida was one of the best put together albums I’ve heard since U2’s the Joshua Tree. It’s lyrically magnificent, the music is quite enjoyable, and the catchiness is unreal. :) Coldplay is easily the best rock group at the moment, or at least the most popular.
By BA
February 9, 2009 4:15 AM | Link to this
Coldplay is garbage. Same kind of garbage as Nickelback- bands that write to TRY to get on the radio, to sell records. It’s like they’ve got a marketing guy there to write their insipid ditties.
By Dadgum
February 9, 2009 8:28 AM | Link to this
Robert Plant saved the Grammys? Cool….back to the 70’s. Quit watching all those type shows years ago because they are so damn terrible. Same acceptance speeches by half-drunk artists thanking their mother, hell, even your mother. Don’t think I missed anything but just in case I will Google Plant/Krauss’s performance last night. Couldn’t do that back in the 70’s!
Rock on…..where did they get the name Grammys anyway?
By Butch Haynes
February 9, 2009 8:56 AM | Link to this
I was really surprised that Rick Springfield wasn’t a featured artist on the Grammys. He could have played Jesse’s Girl.
By Lew
February 9, 2009 9:22 AM | Link to this
CharlieAlphaBravo-Actually, the artist that used the dots was Georges Seurat-a Pointilist. Monet was an Impressionist-painted water lilies and whatnot.
By Anders
February 9, 2009 9:26 AM | Link to this
Butch Haynes
Rick Springfield wasn’t available. He’s working on his set for next year’s Super Bowl. I mean how else can they go up from this years show by the Boss?
Dadgum Grammy’s comes from Gramaphone. Who say’s the music industry doesn’t chnage with the times?
By Lew
February 9, 2009 9:40 AM | Link to this
Anders-I saw on the news this morning that Dennis Kusinich was going to hold hearings in his sub-committee about Banks receiving the bailout and using money for Stadium naming rights. The Mets and Citibank were specifically mentioned. Still think the Mets have money?
By lexbrave
February 9, 2009 9:43 AM | Link to this
i find andruw’s opt out clause interesting. is it possible that boras wants to use rudy to get andruw swinging better, let him showcase a bit in spring training and then have him opt out on march 20 for a better deal with another team? i think that’s at least what he is hoping for.
By The Captain
February 9, 2009 9:50 AM | Link to this
I know the Grammy’s were about 12 hours ago, but I have to ask: anyone else think it was ridiculous that Metallica and Cold Play were in the same nominee category? No way you can compare the two styles.
By McFann O –[zzz] (Braves Fann For Life)
February 9, 2009 10:00 AM | Link to this
Canadianbrave @ 9:22—
The Braves signed David Ross to be their BUC. Hopefully we won’t have to find out whether or not he and Sammons are enough.
By DAP
February 9, 2009 10:09 AM | Link to this
the captain
in my opinion, the grammys as a whole are ridiculous, just like most award shows. i didnt watch last night, and i never watch those things.
By DAP
February 9, 2009 10:14 AM | Link to this
i have to say though, i did go back and watch the radiohead performance on youtube. i thought it was very cool.
By Lew
February 9, 2009 10:21 AM | Link to this
Captain-Only slightly more ridiculous than Metallica and Jethro Tull being in the same category some years ago. Tull (one of my all time favorite bands) is much better than Cold Play, but still shouldn’t have won as a Heavy Metal Band. Kind of like calling Deep Purple Easy Listening or Soft Rock (isn’t Soft Rock And Oxymoron?).
By Graham
February 9, 2009 10:22 AM | Link to this
lexbrave
My sentiments exactly on Andruw. I find it a bit odd that there is any type of opt-out clause for a minor league deal. Are those a common occurrence? I have never heard that.
By Doc Holiday
February 9, 2009 10:23 AM | Link to this
I think Chipper will need to hit 4th. He loves hitting 3rd but the team will need him hitting cleanup.
Blanco/Anderson
Yunel
KJ
Chipper
Mc
Kotchman
Diaz/Anderson
JF
This will be our best way out if we dont get Abreu
By Jim H.
February 9, 2009 10:25 AM | Link to this
I haven’t paid much attention to the Grammys since they tried to act like they knew something about Rock and gave Jethro Tull the best “Heavy Metal” group award back in the ‘80s (Jethro Tull – Heavy Metal????). At one time they meant something, but its mostly pop music garbage these days. I normally Tivo it and speed through and watch the 20 minutes or so that is worth seeing. I didn’t even bother to do that last night, though.
Hey Frank Wren, we need an outfielder bad! C’mon man, do something!
By Lee in S GA
February 9, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this
in my opinion, the grammys as a whole are ridiculous, just like most award shows. i didnt watch last night, and i never watch those things. DAP
Got to agree with you there. I can’t remmeber the last time I watched any awards show. The biggest newsworthy note that came out of it was the number Chris Brown did on Rihanna and neither appeared.
As far as A.J. with the Rangers, I will say I’m not the least bit disappointed the Braves did not want to resigned him; however, I will say I am glad he will be in the A.L. in case he does have any hitters’ resurgence left in him at all.
By Greg
February 9, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this
I’m so happy Andruw signed elsewhere. It made my week. I couldn’t stand the though of Bobby using his AJ’s glory days to justify playing him for two months until it was too late to salvage the season. Now let’s go get Abreu. If not, let’s get a lead-off hitter and go to work.
By DAP
February 9, 2009 10:31 AM | Link to this
doc holliday
i think youre right about chipper batting 4th. actually, i think even if we get abreu, chipper should bat 4th. he doesnt need to do anything different, just hit .360 again and we’ll be fine. :-)
chipper is an anchor to the lineup no matter where he hits, and a team needs its anchors in the middle. #4 is right smack dab in the middle, so thats where he should be. this will mean hopefully more runners on in front of him, so even if he doesnt hit 30 homers, his singles will be driving guys in, and with mac behind him, weve got a good middle of the order to score runs.
By Lew
February 9, 2009 10:41 AM | Link to this
DAP and Lee-‘Tis the season for the ignoring of Award Shows. In addition to the Grammy’s it’s also the Self Congratulatory Season for the Movie Industry, as well. Lots of alternative programming upcoming for this artist.
By OldBraveBag
February 9, 2009 10:45 AM | Link to this
Dave,
Have you heard anything regarding Kelly? I really would have thought they would have compromised with him by now. It’s surprising to me that he isn’t signed. Thanks…
By Salamander
February 9, 2009 10:47 AM | Link to this
I was going over what people were saying about the Grammys, and I just wanted to say that Coldplay blows. Their first major release “Parachutes” had potential - if you are into the whole Brit-pop scene, but even then, it was a mediocre debut that emulated “The Bends” without being anywhere near as good. I don’t know why Coldplay are so famous - they write boring songs, lack attitude, and don’t rock.
By Efrim
February 9, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this
DAP
“i think youre right about chipper batting 4th. actually, i think even if we get abreu, chipper should bat 4th.”
I agree. Just makes the most sense. Not a huge deal, because an opposing manager is going to bring in a late inning lefty reliever to face Abreu, turn Chipper around, and then face McCann. That said, it’s still better to have the switch hitter in between Abreu and Heap………I’m talking like we are going to sign the guy. eesh.
Johnson
Escobar
Abreu
Jones
McCann
Francoeur
Kotchman
Blanco/Anderson
By Doc Holiday
February 9, 2009 10:57 AM | Link to this
DAP
And what if we get Abreu? would you bat him 6th? or 3rd? I think he should hit behind Mc and let KJ hit 3rd.
By David O'Brien
February 9, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
DAP and Lee-�Tis the season for the ignoring of Award Shows.Lew
Have to disagree when it comes to Oscars. In no way are the Academy Awards similar to the cheesy Grammys, where they present awards based on mass popularity and pander to the largest segment of record buyers, the kids, by having artists perform who appeal almost exclusively to either them or, in a couple of cases each year, to their old-rocker parents.
The Academy Awards actually gets it fairly close each year in honoring the best actual candidates for awards. I mean, what’s the music equivalent of, say, The Reader, Milk, The Wrestler and Frost/Nixon being among five finalists for best picture? None were at the top of the box-office list.
Just look at the finalists for the biggest Grammy categories, compared to those in the main Oscar categories. Night and day, the difference in integrity and quality of performance, with few exceptions. One awards show honors sales and/or nostalgia and past glory, while the other honors the actual quality of the work.
By David O'Brien
February 9, 2009 11:03 AM | Link to this
Graham & LexBrave: It’s actually quite common for a veteran player to have such a date included in his minor league contract, a date by which he must either be added to the major league roster or be made a free agent. It’s just that usually that date is early in the regular season, not during spring training like the one in Andruw’s contract.
By Anders
February 9, 2009 11:07 AM | Link to this
“Anders-I saw on the news this morning that Dennis Kusinich was going to hold hearings in his sub-committee about Banks receiving the bailout and using money for Stadium naming rights. The Mets and Citibank were specifically mentioned. Still think the Mets have money?” - LEW
Unless the government plans to run the marketing departments for each of the companies they may send bailout money to I’m not sure how they can succesfully single out this one agreement. It is a legally binding agreement that was entered into by CitiGroup with the Mets. No different than any other marketing agreement that each of the other bailout companies have on their books. Jeff Wilpon had copies of 77 different marketing agreements that the various bailout companies had with other naming rights deals, advertising agreements, luxury suites etc within the sports industry. Is it Kusinich’s intention to void all? Or is he going to decide which agreements should stay and which should go? On what premise? When did we allow Czar’s into our government?
You see how ugly this could get? The Mets have been very patient with this but I doubt they will go down without a fight. At most I think they would broker a deal where they would possibly agree to shorten the deal to a more equitable 5 or 10 years.
Remember this money is not a gift or a grant from Citigroup to the Mets - it’s a legally bound marketing agreement that has huge logistical ramifications in addition to the financial ones to disband it at this juncture. Who will pay for all the signage etc? You can bet the Mets won’t. This is not an Enron case where a company went bankrupt and couldn’t pay the bill. Should Citigroup go bankrupt than the Mets will have to stand in line with the rest of the creditors for their money. That’s how our system works.
Other than that, this is the normal grandstanding by a political figure to jump on a popular band wagon while trampling the rights of others along the way to meet his/her own agenda. Certainly this doesn’t suprise you?
The Mets have a payroll of about $147 mil this year, so yeah, I think they still have money. Maybe not crazy money for Manny like I hoped but so far more money than any other team in the NL.
BTW- There’s a pretty sizable contingent of Mets fans who hope the naming deal goes down and they’re forced to use the name Shea at least until a new partner is found. I’m not one.
By David O'Brien
February 9, 2009 11:15 AM | Link to this
OldBrave: Haven’t heard anything on Kelly, but frankly I’m never as interested in arb situations as some fans seem to be. Just not important, not unless/until it goes to a trial. Whether it’s settled now or five minutes before a trial begins, it’s settled and the player’s under contract. Players don’t play poorly because they’re upset about teams not settling with them soon enough before an arb hearing. If they did, they’d probably not be intelligent enough to want them on your team long-term anyway, would they?
By DAP
February 9, 2009 11:18 AM | Link to this
doc holliday
yeah id bat abreu 3rd for a couple of reasons. he is still a guy who steals bases, and may have chances to get himself in scoring position for chipper, plus he is a vet and has been a #3 hitter most of his career. he is a prototypical #3. KJ thrives lower in the order and since he is less experienced is more prone to slumps. i think batting him 6th or 7th is the way to go.
By KC
February 9, 2009 11:30 AM | Link to this
Folks, I think Glavine will be back. I say that because at this late stage of the off-season, I don’t think he’s going to get a significantly better offer elsewhere. Especially in terms of guaranteed money. Not enough to make it worth his while to leave, anyway. Particularly if he has to go play what could be his final season for a losing team (like the Nats).
I think his options are going to be:
A. Stay in ATL, where he wants to be, for a winning team at 2-3 million.
B. Leave ATL, play away from home, potentially for losing team, for slightly more money.
C. Retire.
And I think option “A” will look the best in the end.
By DAP
February 9, 2009 11:30 AM | Link to this
DOB
for me, its not even a matter of the awards going to who deserves, or who did the best job…i just dont care. i dont need to be told whats good or what actors or musicians i should appreciate. i just like what i like. im not a movie buff, and even though i listen to alot of music and am a musician, i dont consider myself a music buff or critic (i like weird al. nuff said). i like what i like, so i dont really care what the industry recognizes as good. i simply do not care about the opinions of the folks who make those decisions!
its just me. i ignore all the award shows, and check out a performance here and there if i like the artist (radiohead on your recommendation, was good).
and if a movie interests me from the previews or reviews ive heard about it, i go see it, or rent it. (i dont see alot of movies, but i thought “fireproof” was a very good movie that ive gone to see recently. you wont see that anywhere near an award show)
By Kentavo
February 9, 2009 11:33 AM | Link to this
Get Abreu!!!!!!!!!
Does anybody know if Abreu has hit cleanup and what his stats are in that slot? He’s certainly not prototypical cleanup, but then again neither is Infante.
By TommyP
February 9, 2009 11:34 AM | Link to this
March can’t get here fast enough….spring training and actual baseball news and March Madness. February might be the worst sports month of the year….no, it is.
Shouldn’t say I’m shocked about the Ohman offer disappearing but I am. I really thought the Braves would lock him up. However, the Braves view those lefty specialists like the Broncos view running backs, college football teams view long snappers, and most NFL teams view kickers. Find an unproven and develop them into the role. It seems to have worked for Bobby several times.
If Abreu can be had for $4 million right now, do it yesterday.
No words on ARod today? Little bit shocking…
Valentine’s week….the week so many guys dread…and rightfully so. What a joke of a holiday.
By Doc Holiday
February 9, 2009 11:41 AM | Link to this
Think you are right DAP. No way I can argue your points. Just dont forget that Chipper loves hitting 3rd and not 4th.
By bigchiefrg
February 9, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
The worst part of the Grammy’s HAD to be the ‘RAP pack’ tribute to Dean Martin…The performance was pretty decent but Dean Martin had to be rolling over in his grave. Also they never really expanded on Dean. Didnt quite get it.
By Bryan
February 9, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
TommyP, took care of my valentine last week…took her to see avenue q…great show by the way but you’re absoutely right, it is the dreaded week
By flange1
February 9, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
Morning folks,
Quite an interesting weekend for MLB and for the Braves.
The AROD announcement was not unexpected (that he tested positive for steroids) but strange in that 1 of 104 names was “selected” to be published.
Why weren’t the samples destroyed like they were supposed to be?
To me the biggest story in all of this is Gene Orza giving a “heads up” to AROD about when his test would be. Did all players get the call or just the superstars?
If that is true, then the entire testing program is bogus.
Just when we were hoping that steroids could possibly go away, they are back in central focus. It will be interesting to see the other 103 names.
By Efrim
February 9, 2009 11:49 AM | Link to this
“If Abreu can be had for $4 million right now, do it yesterday.”
If Abreu can be had for the 6-7 million that we have, do it yesterday. Let’s be honest, Glavine would be our fifth starter, but it’s not like we don’t have other fifth starter candidates. I’m sorry, but I don’t have a lot of confidence in a Matt Diaz/Brandon Jones platoon. Abreu would make this offense MUCH better. Chipper is probably going to miss 25-30 games, so I’d feel more comfortable with Abreu in the fold. I’m pretty sure every Braves fan would.
By The Truth
February 9, 2009 11:57 AM | Link to this
Peavy thing failed…
Ohman gone…
Ditto for Glavine…
So much for your gut feelings.
By DAP
February 9, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this
kantavo
abreu has started 178 games in his career batting cleanup. in 785 plate appearances, hes hit .300/.406/.505 …not bad at all.
By Anders
February 9, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this
“A. Stay in ATL, where he wants to be, for a winning team at 2-3 million.” - KC
As with Peavy, Furcal, Burnett et al I don’t think the players see the Braves as the lock down winner they used to be like many of you do. I’m not saying playing on a winning team is a must in Glavine’s mind - as a matter of fact since he’s supposedly considering DC I’d say just the opposite. However, listing one of the Braves advantages as a “winning team” might be a little premature at this point. Better than DC, sure but over .500 - we’ll see.
I still think Glavine should retire and take over the union. What they did to those 104 players is criminal. I know not much is being made about it on this blog (not sure why) but this is a firestorm brewing. I wouldn’t put it past Boras to launch an attack on the union, possibly litigation. He’d actually be right to imo.
By Fred
February 9, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
Regarding the citi/stadium rights issue, I have to agree with Anders. Citi isn’t the only company that received or will receive a bailout from the government, and most companies obviously need to market their product(s) or service(s). Just watch American Idol and see all of the Ford promotions and commercials. How much do you think they paid for that? It is obviously impossible for the government to police every dollar these companies spend, nor should they in a free market economy.
By 18 Wheels of Love
February 9, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this
I don’t get the Jay-Z thing at all. OK I can see he has talent, but whatever that was he did with Coldplay (gag me with a spoon!) just wasn’t good at all. He has achieved the reputation of a musician that is extremely accomplished but I just don’t get it.
By Lew
February 9, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this
DOB-Maybe the Oscars are better than the Grammys, in fact I have no doubt they are, but it all comes down to I don’t really care how good any of them are. I don’t care for award shows-Period. I don’t read reviews, either. If a movie looks good I’ll watch it. If some of the Denizens here recommend a flick, I’ll go see it (or more likely wait until it comes on my High Priced cable package. I really just am not interested in what the industry thinks of themselves-hence the Self Congratulatory season -SAG Awards, Oscars and Golden Globes. Boring.
Anders-Just reporting what I saw on the tube this morning (and BTW, The Mets were NOT the only team mentioned, nor was Citibank the only bank). However, I’m seriously thinking you and the Mets are not realizing how much most of the rest of the country is highly p!$$ed about this whole banking bailout-all the bonuses still given out and these naming deals-after taking a manure pile of our bucks, ostensibly to bail them out of financial doldrums.
Yes, the Mets have a payroll of $147 million. However, since the acquisition of KRod and Putz (which occurred right before the Madoff scandal broke), they surely haven’t spent many more dollars-and all they need are small pieces. I’m betting they take on no more salary (unless Elmer Dessens makes the ML roster-and tell me THAT move wasn’t scraping the barrel’s bottom). You surely will not sign a piece as big as Manny-even though he might make them a lock for the Division and beyond..
By Anders
February 9, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this
“The AROD announcement was not unexpected (that he tested positive for steroids) but strange in that 1 of 104 names was “selected” to be published.” - Flange1
Kind of like Kusinich focusing on one single marketing deal of all the deals the bailout companies have. You seeing the correlation here? Most bang (publicity) for the buck. That’s what makes the media and apparently government world go round.
By Graham
February 9, 2009 12:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks for the information. I had heard of players being released if they didn’t make the majors with the team. But, I didn’t think that the player had the ability to “opt out” on a contract like that. I thought that the team held that power. Oh well. Either way, if Andruw shows that he can still play and wants to go somewhere else, he has that ability.
By AZBravoFan
February 9, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this
If Rudy Jaramillo can turn around Andruw’s career, do we need to start worrying about TP’s effectiveness as a hitting coach? Especially if Francouer can’t get himself turned around.
By Lew
February 9, 2009 12:20 PM | Link to this
Fred-It’s not free market when the banks take all of those billions of dollars. It kind of changes the equation. Can they legally do anything about it? Who knows? However, if that’s Citibank’s marketing strategy, I’d be replacing the marketing director for not doing his job.
I’ll give you a specific example. There are several Law Schools in the U.S. that refuse to let JAG Corps Lawyers interview prospective candidates on campus during career days, based on their disagreement with military policy (not commenting here on whether it’s the right stance-just reporting a situation). The penalty for this refusal? No offer of Federal Funds is forthcoming. You want the money, you do what they say. You don’t want to toe their line? You don’t take their $$$$$. Real simple.
By Georgiavol
February 9, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this
DOB,
The remaining 103 names linked to positive steriods testing in 2003 will eventually come out. Should past and present Braves players start fessin’ up now or wait? We all know the unspoken secret about our beloved 3rd baseman and his experimenting with performance enhancing drugs will come up at some point. And I’m not about to get on my high horse and start point fingers, either. I wasn’t in the dugout watching all these guys get huge and telling myself “hey, I’m going to stay clean”.
All that said, I wonder if the smart PR approach is to come out now instead of later, as I think there is still some high road to be taken in this mess. We all saw players get real big and then get small, some quitting the ‘roids (like our 3B) before others.
By THE BEAR
February 9, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this
“I wouldn’t put it past Boras to launch an attack on the union, possibly litigation. He’d actually be right to imo,” Anders
Anders, while I deplore the use of steroids I find myself agreeing with you on this matter. It happened before there was a punishment for the use and no one else from that list has been exposed. If one had to be exposed it is only fair (in my mind) if all 94 or 104 were exposed at the same time. Were I A-Rod I do believe I would be putting together a lawsuit at this moment.
As for the Shea stadium naming program I saw no problem with it so long as those advertising dollars were coming from the profits of a corporation, any corporation. But when those dollars are coming out of the taxpayers’ pockets I see much wrong with it. Costs incurred to date should be paid according to contract (the same as a cancellation fee for a private jetliner) but the program should be eliminated after paying for the signs etc. The long term commitment is for $400 million (or so I hear) and I am not happy about being on the hook for that kind of tax money being dished out. For sure that is not going to create any new jobs.
By Anders
February 9, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this
Lew
Well maybe Kusinich can get the Mets out of the K-Rod and Putz contracts? Seems to be his stock in trade.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
February 9, 2009 12:34 PM | Link to this
AZBravoFan -
If Jaramillo can get through to Andruw then it will be more about Andruw’s willingness to finally change his approach than TP’s ability as a hitting instructor. I’m obsequious to TP’s ability as a coach but Andruw’s flaws are so obvious most people with a basic level of knowledge of hitting can identify them. And from the comments from former players and coaches it seems many have tried to help him change his approach. So far he’s still putting his lead foot in a bucket and pulling way off the ball. Until he is willing to change … he’ll be the poster child of a what-could-have-been career.
By Lew
February 9, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this
Anders-Dude, I have no freaking idea WHAT Kusinich is capable of. I didn’t vote for him in the primaries, or at any other time-actually was more impressed with his wife than him, honestly. I don’t even know what all of his policies or capabilities are. I’m just reporting to you what I heard on the news this morning-just like I reported the whole Madoff thing on the blog (seems I was right about that, wasn’t I?).
However, as for not being able to negate a marketing deal? Really? Why don’t you ask Enron about that? Seems Houston now plays in Minute Maid Park-NOT Enron Field. I seem to remember that it wasn’t because the Houston owner needs more sunshine in his life.
By Anders
February 9, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this
“Fred-It’s not free market when the banks take all of those billions of dollars. It kind of changes the equation. Can they legally do anything about it? Who knows?” - LEW
Personally I don’t think they have legal ground to stand on, but even if they do then they need to void all marketing arrangements upon the receipt of bailout funds by any group imo.
“However, if that’s Citibank’s marketing strategy, I’d be replacing the marketing director for not doing his job.” - LEW
Come on Lew. Do you know how many people pass that stadium everyday? To and from work? Hundreds of thousands. Plus all the planes that fly directly over it from La Guardia everyday? You want to argue the governments rights to disband legal agreements go ahead, but your slip is showing a little when you start to argue the validity and value of name branding.
You realize that CitiGroup has a huge office compex right down the road from the new stadium? I’m guessing this isn’t something they entered on a whim. I’m sure there is a huge marketing campaign with this as a central piece.
Granted it’s not on the level of the marketing genius of the Cow at the Ted :)
By The Great Hyphenated Compound Modifier Vs. Unhyphenated Compound Noun Debate of 2009
February 9, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this
LAWLS, Dave, did you see this interesting take on “The Reader”.
http://www.slate.com/id/2210804/
By Lew
February 9, 2009 12:52 PM | Link to this
Anders-Yeah, but how many of them in Queens can actually read?
Dude, you’re getting awfully upset about my reporting this-just something I heard on the news-didn’t even give an opinion, myself (except on the effectiveness of the marketing strategy and generally using tax dollars and ramifications of doing this). That tells me a couple of things about you, one of which is that you’re concerned it might just happen.
As for the Cow. I don’t particularly care for it, but at least Chik-fil-A didn’t take a huge government handout after totally screwing up their industry.
By Brian
February 9, 2009 12:54 PM | Link to this
Anders, are you still on here running your mouth about the biggest chokers in MLB? Dude, go to the Muts blog! Please, find another team to brag on, not a team that hasn’t done anything worth talking about in over 22 years.I don’t know how else to put it to you other than that. It’s funny you come to a teams blog and run your mouth, or fingers, that has owned yours for years.
By OldBravesBag
February 9, 2009 12:54 PM | Link to this
OldBrave: Haven’t heard anything on Kelly, but frankly I’m never as interested in arb situations as some fans seem to be. Just not important, not unless/until it goes to a trial. Whether it’s settled now or five minutes before a trial begins, it’s settled and the player’s under contract. Players don’t play poorly because they’re upset about teams not settling with them soon enough before an arb hearing. If they did, they’d probably not be intelligent enough to want them on your team long-term anyway, would they?
I don’t think anyone would be upset either way. I’m just surprised that there hasn’t been a compromise. I think in the middle of those two figures is right where his salary should be. I’m a huge fan of Kelly, but he didn’t come on until the season was really over last year. I think he made some very good adjustments at the plate at the end…..hands seemed a bit higher, better pitch selection, and confident aggression at the plate…..but that has to carry over to 09. I know Chipper mentioned this….and I agreed with everything he said about doing it when the pressure is on.
By bryan
February 9, 2009 12:55 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels of Love -
I never realized what a genus Jay-z was until i listened to the Grey Album - The Danger Mouse mash up of the Beatles White Album beats with Jay-Z’s lyrics from the black album.
I don’t like his producers much (kanye is aiight) and his songs don’t carry the sense of urgency that his lyrics suggest when paired differently.
99 problems set to Helter Skelter … DAMN!
By Anders
February 9, 2009 12:55 PM | Link to this
“The long term commitment is for $400 million (or so I hear) and I am not happy about being on the hook for that kind of tax money being dished out. For sure that is not going to create any new jobs.” - The Bear
Really? So why do companies advertise at all? In large companies like banks and insurance companies where the product the general public receives is basically about the same it’s all about name branding and recognition. I say “So easy a caveman can do it” - what do you think? I say “Gekko” what do you think - see how the mind works? These commercials are shown repeatedly - no?
People see a name day in and day out they not only remember it but they get a level of comfort with it. Most people don’t spend a lot of time rating bank services when choosing one. There’s a reason there are banks on every other corner. It’s about name recognition, comfort and convenience.
This leads to business which leads to jobs.
By Anders
February 9, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this
Lew
Enron went bankrupt. I covered that in the first post. That was a criminal case as well. Apples and oranges I’m afraid.
By Brian
February 9, 2009 1:01 PM | Link to this
If I were Wren, I’d maybe up Glavine’s offer by half a mill. and if he doesn’t take, good bye ol’ friend. You just cannot go into ‘09 without something other than a Diaz/B.Jones platoon. That’s just my opinion, but I wouldn’t kill a lot of time worrying if Glavine will split, while Abreu could be in deep talks with other teams. Just too risky to me. To use DOB famous word, I have a gut feeling that Abreu is on the way though. Still think Glavine will be back to.
By Fred
February 9, 2009 1:01 PM | Link to this
Anders, you also have to assume there will be several Citi ATMs at the new stadium. I’m no marketing expert, but there must be some benefit to stadium naming rights otherwise no companies would pay large sums of money for that arrangement.
By 18 Wheels of Love
February 9, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this
bryan: if it takes DM to mash up Jay Z lyrics to make them good, does Jay Z deserve the credit there? I think that points more to DM’s skills in making Jay Z’s stuff listenable. The only thing that I have heard of Jay Z’s that I remotely like is 99 Problems, but even I think that is too repetitive.
I’m still into the Q-Tip though, it’s really good.
By Lew
February 9, 2009 1:09 PM | Link to this
Anders-The only reason Citibank didn’t go bankrupt is that they took the bailout money.
By ncscoots
February 9, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this
Perhaps The Bear might want to take a moment and read about the actual nature of TARP. I’m all for a little taxpayer righteous indignation (believe me, I have plenty of it around this time of the year), but it’s more effective when better directed.
By THE BEAR
February 9, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this
Anders I am not talking about signage at a stadium, any stadium. I am well aware of the value of such signage and identifying with a corporation. I spent many years of my life as Corporate VP for advertising and merchandising and I have a pretty good read on the value of advertising.
Let’s get back to what I was talking about. This bailout money is supposed to save the banking system and CREATE JOBS.
By Thrillhouse44
February 9, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels, Jay-Z is one of the best lyricists in my opinion. Check out some of the stuff that isn’t played on the radio (Reasonable Doubt CD) and you may realize the gift he has. If not, not a big deal - just a suggestion.
By flange1
February 9, 2009 1:34 PM | Link to this
Anders and Lew,
It is a strange situation the Mets are in with their stadium being named for Citibank.
Anders, your point about canceling all marketing agreements because payment is being made with potential TARP funds is valid. Why stop with the naming of a ballpark? Why not all commercials?
Lew, I happen to agree with you thoughts that is no reason for the taxpayers of the US of paying to name a baseball park and subsidize major league baseball.
But it is a complicated situation. I can understand both sides of the argument.
I guess it would help if there was some sort of guidelines on how to spend the TARP funds…….
By THE BEAR
February 9, 2009 1:36 PM | Link to this
To continue:
Creating jobs is not identified with how many people may work at their current jobs as a result of their company’s advertising. CREATING JOBS is quite another topic in my mind. Otherwise you might try to make a case for the bailout money to be spent to pay the advertising tab for every company in America. And I don’t believe you will find anyone agreeing with you on that one.
Will paying $400 million for a sign on Shea Stadium create any NEW JOBS? I seriously doubt it. And don’t bother hurling any more foolishness at me in trying to justify such ridiculous spending of my tax money. Frankly I don’t give a damn whether or not the Mets get the money so long as I don’t have to pay part of it.
I help pay for part of the cow at the Ted by buying sandwiches from Chick fil A. And I choose to do so. I don’t choose to settle part of your financial problems with my tax dollars.
By DAP
February 9, 2009 1:40 PM | Link to this
“This bailout money is supposed to save the banking system and CREATE JOBS.” THE BEAR
thats what they are telling us its for. its really to create a bunch of people (read: voting block) who are dependent on the government, thus giving the government blind loyalty no matter what.
not to get into politics or anything, but this “bailout” was and is a bunch of crap, and our politicians are crooked, power hungry dopes.
they make me so mad.
By David O'Brien
February 9, 2009 1:41 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOGGAGE
By THE BEAR
February 9, 2009 1:48 PM | Link to this
Let’s assume for a moment that Home Depot offered the Braves $400 million over a 20 year period to rename the Ted “HOME DEPOT FIELD.” And then found themselves on the verge of bankruptcy. They would than appeal for help from the bailout fund in order to pay that $400 million along with a lot of other debts. How many bloggers here would be in agreement to that proposal? Anders would you want to support such an arrangement?
Or if Chick fil A got into financial trouble; would you want to pony up and pay for the cow?
I thought not.
By flange1
February 9, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this
Did anyone see that the Cards just DFA’ed Adam Kennedy? AND will pay his 4,000,000 salary? WOW!!
I bet you the Mets sign him….
By THE BEAR
February 9, 2009 1:52 PM | Link to this
DAP, I agree with your post 100%
By THE BEAR
February 9, 2009 1:57 PM | Link to this
DAP, I agree with your post 100%
By rjt
February 9, 2009 9:43 PM | Link to this
DOB…if you’re down with an occasional dose of Enigma, check out Sheyenne Rivers with Blue Stone.
By MARK
February 11, 2009 6:06 AM | Link to this
Off the Subject a little seems to me Rangers have put themselves in position bt investing little money,being that they have ample out fielders to set up a trade involving Andruw Jones or maybe one of their on OF later in the season and Andruw ‘s banking on the Ranger Hitting coach to get him right at the plate…I m willing to bet that Andruw digs out of this hole and has a few good years left in him..perhaps Andruw’s name might bwe on that list with Arod?/ Just a thought…
By MARK
February 11, 2009 6:14 AM | Link to this
Also I think Braves need to sign Glavine we need a lefty and I think a 2 year contract for Bobby Abreau would be good. The oth outfielders mentioned have strickout problems Bobby is pretty much a complete hitter at the plate and still plays good defence..Alright looking good GO Braves…Its going to be a big Challenge from both Mets and Phillies they look really good on paper both.