By Kym-Proud Steeler Nation Member since 1994

January 28, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this

Good Morning All,

Should she address this or wait until things become more serious?

Wait, seven months is wayyy to soon IMO to start having a talk about “Just where is this thing going?” If she does she has to be prepared for a answer she may not want to hear.

Do you think our parent’s ideas about love and relationships get “hard-wired”, so to speak, into us? Yes and NO, I do I think some of the things we saw or heard about love growing up can effect us *but also believe that it is through own experiences meshed with your parents ideas that you develop your own.*

Do women take on their mother’s attitude/perception about men? Yes, I did I have my mother’s loyalty streak down pat.

Where did you get your first ideas about relationships? Hmmm Harlequin Romances. What is your earliest memory of romantic love? High school puppy love and crushes.

What models of love and commitment did you have growing up? My aunts and uncles.

If you were raised in a single parent home, do you think you will have more challenges with commitment because you didn’t see it in your household growing up? Nope. My single parent was my dad, he showed me all the things I wanted and didnt want in a relationship and never would I use the excuse of my daddy raised me to say that I am “commitment challenged”

By BLOW ME IS OFFICIALLY BLOWED & THROWED

January 28, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Good Morning all

Wow…I was just speaking about this recently. GREAT TOPIC!!

I strongly believe that your ideas of a relationship does stem from your parents. I also think that your character is molded there as well too. A lot of times women who did not have a father in the household…has no idea on how to treat or be with a man. So when she does decide to get in a relationship, She’s winging it! And going off the things she has been told/heard and uncles/brothers/mom boyfriends. In a way she is throwed. This is the same as a MAN. If he didn’t have a steady sound good teacher. He is going to lack the basics of being a man. Now don’t get me wrong this does not hold true for everyone!! So save ya d@mn griping! lol.

But that’s where I haved learned to treat and handle a man from my father. I had a d@mn good example…too d@mn good. He’s definitely a hard act to follow. But I also learned the good and bad parts of my parent’s relationship. So as well as they laid the foundation, also seen mistakes that I learned from for the better. My father was very committed man and I hope to seek the same in a potential husband. His characterstics will definitely mimic my fathers.

So in closing, You learn a lot of your traits and ideals of a relationship from the homefront. Most ppl get thier insecurities and issues from growing up. Everything starts at HOME

By Mo (now known as Moeisha)

January 28, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Morning Everybody!! Hope everyone had a great weekend.

Do you think our parent’s ideas about love and relationships get “hard-wired”, so to speak, into us? For me, not necessarily. My mom married my father when she was just 19 so we have different views on somethings when it comes to relationships. Mom is ready to define things after a first date!! LOL

What models of love and commitment did you have growing up? My parents and grandparents. Both sets of my grandparents have been married for over 60 yrs and my parents have been married over 35yrs. My grands are the sweetest though b/c sometimes they look like high school kids ‘courtin’ each other! :0)

I will say this though, my family isnt very affectionate so that has been a big thing for me. I like it (like most people) but I dont always have to have someone touching me, ya know?

By Purple lace

January 28, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Good morning, I disagree with you Kym on the 7 months being too soon to have the “where is this thing going” talk. If you don’t ask where you’re going before investing time/money,etc. etc. then you may end up on a dead-end road.

As for the topic-it depends on the person I’m dating views on commitment/marriage. I need to know his views as that would let me know whether I should move forward or pump my breaks and keep it moving. I’ve met more men who have been raised by single mothers than fathers. While most of their views of women alone was disturbing I know there are some men who was raised in single households who value relationships.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

They have been dating for SEVEN MONTHS and she doesn’t know how he feels about marriage and doesn’t know how to ask?. She’s the kind of girl that will be strung along for as long as she allows it.

I do think our parents shape us to how we view relationships. My parents are still together after 30 years. I’ve seen them in love and I’ve seen them out of love. But what I’ve seen is commitment and perserverance through “better and worse” and it’s probably why I’m still single. I can’t accept just any type of treatment from a guy. My parents set the bar really high.

By Rell

January 28, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

@kym/blow….agreed and great post ladies….

@ared…you have mail

waving at er body else

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Good morning blogsville.

I’ll just co-sign Kym’s post 99% minus the Harlequin romance part. I will add that we all have alot of real life adult examples to help form our outlook on relationships/commitment/marriage.

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Mornin…

I agree with Blow Me, everything does start at home! In most cases we develop our thoughts and ideas from our parents.

Men often shape many of their views on relationships from their fathers and I know my mom definitely “hard wired” some thoughts and feelings on men in my sisters head, I often heard them talk.

The problem with the above is that our parent’s lived in a different time than we currently do and 1950’s ideals don’t work in 2008!

By SlimOne

January 28, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Morning I definitely generation plays a huge part of ones views on dating/committment/marriage. My ex’s mom often told me if i saw a anything I should act like I didn’t see it. Even if it was a pair of some other chicks panties on the floor, to just step right over them and act like they weren’t there. She also said men like to be pampered and to not put too much space between me and her son to allow some other chick to come in, pamper him, and take my place. WTF!!!!!

By Rell

January 28, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

I often hear this…..”I am going to raise my son to spoil his women”…he will be a good man…

i have issue with the spoil part……so yes again alot of our ideals start at home and alot of single mothers will handicap there son future relationships with that line of thinking…

By BLOW ME IS OFFICIALLY BLOWED & THROWED

January 28, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

LL Yes that’s the problem nowadays!! Those ideas worked for centuries…you can’t just do EVERYTHING you want!!! Now in 2008 no one has restraints or morals. It’s getting worst!! We need to go back and adopt some standards. Or we all are going to be at a lost! Things need to revert back to 50”s. Everyone wants to do what they want to do with no repercussions!! lol!

By Teresa

January 28, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Good Morning all…The way you grow up does shape your perception of relationships in general. As you get older, I tend to think you keep some of what you learned and apply it to your situation and discard the learned behavior that no longer fits for you. My foundation is based on the bible; my real life references are my Parents.

I am a single mother and my son has yet to see me in a relationship where love is truly reciprocated between a man and a women. This is something that worries me at times as I am still getting back into dating. But, I pray that he references how I love him. I try and keep the lines of communication as open as possible.

By DasV

January 28, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

good morning good ppl

similar to our grasp of the english and executing it well, we are influenced by what we first learn at an early age…. but we still recognize that in some situations what we’ve learned isn’t always appropiate. At some point we all have to learn the fundamental rules of the english language if we are going to succeed, and likewise we all have to learn the fundanmentals of carrying on a successful relationship: love of self, honesty and good communication.

and I dont necessarily believe that growing up in a two-parent home correlates with having great relationship skills… sometimes all you learn from seeing two ppl who are still together after 20 years is how to fight. i think whats more important is how that person interacts with their opposite sex parent… how does he treat, listen, do-for his moms?? thats key.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

SlimOne - That story is CRAZY! I just had breakfast with a friend and we talked about how we’re taught to not ask questions and keep secrets in our households. It’s crippling us.

Rell - If you’re communicating thru email with an “AmazonRed” you’re talking to an imposter. :-)

By Rell

January 28, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

I dont necessarily believe that growing up in a two-parent home correlates with having great relationship skills… sometimes all you learn from seeing two ppl who are still together after 20 years is how to fight.

COSIGN!!!!

By DreamsMaterialize

January 28, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Good Morning Everyone I don’t think behavior is “hard_wired”, it’s learned. Things that are hard-wired will ALWAYS happen because, without deviation, but things learned can be implemented (or not) within your control. So, I do think behaviors can be passed from one generation to the next, but we can choose to do things differently. Easier said than done sometimes, but that’s life. So, WD, Lila be cognizant of the dad’s behavior, but she should ultimately let Paul’s actions speak for themselves

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Hey Mo - I went to the HBCU mixer on Friday. It was PACKED and I had a blast. Did you go?

By SlimOne

January 28, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

ARed I think her thinking is not just a result of her age but she’s from the islands too. So she has said a lot of things to me along these lines. I told her it was not me with the issues it’s her sons’…the same son who’s “other women’ did a pop up over to his house while i was there. Even though we aren’t together, she STILL is on project Marry My Son.

By melo

January 28, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

U sorroundings and upbringing shape who u are and become.However, as u get older u assume ur own identity as well, to the point of discarding those influences you dont like or are immoral and wrong and assume those you think will lead u in the right direction or the direction u wish. 7 monhts is way too early for this lady to start talking about marriage although she could glean a few things from her boyfriend about marriage, kids etc.But it has to be in a sublte way, so that she does not scare him off if she intends to pursue the rel. for a long time.However she must give the guy the benefit of the doubt because he is not necessarily a mirror image of his parents or father. Qoute for the dayMy foundation is based on the bible; my…. my Parents.I am a single mother *Teresa Have a good day!!!

By Rell

January 28, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

@ared…really, send me an email so i can be sure…dwilliams2022@hotmail.com

By kinderbabe

January 28, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

to piggyback on a comment already made, i think learning how to fight from your parents is a good skill to acquire. there are going to be a fair share of disagreements if two are fortunate enough to have a union last 20+ years. the key is learning how to fight fair. did your parents pass low blow after blow during a disagreement?? or were they diplomatic and have a problem-solving approach? the opposite of having never seen parents fight could be equally detrimental. that could lead to a grown person thinking that there are never conflicts in a relationship and that if there are, something’s wrong.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Rell - I’m not going to email you. I’m good with our blog relationship the way it is.

SlimOne - Maybe she should start a website… marrymyson.com! LOL

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Good morning, everyone! I believe that some of our behaviour is “hard-wired” by our parents. I was raised in a single family home and I watched my mother like a hawk to learn things I needed to learn when I got older. I have her strength. The men she chose in life guided me to go down the opposite road. Thru her I becane actuately aware if what a b******* looked like. I knew what mean men looked liked underneath while masking a sweet smile on the surface.

My first ideas about love and relationship was puppy love and the gushy butterflie feeling you get when you see him in the hallway (LOL). I use to wonder what that feeling would be like in adulthood.

If you were raised in a single parent home, do you think you will have more challenges with commitment because you didn’t see it in your household growing up? Not at all!

By Rell

January 28, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

@LMAO…..someone is smartier than the avg bear….lol

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

I think growing up in a 2 parent householed is relevant to shaping relationships..but it has to be a HEALTHY 2 parent HHold…no rocket science there. My parents have been married for 40 some odd yrs and I have taken notes along their way. My dad is extremely loving and gentle with my mother when necessary and will also advise her when to fall back when nec. I learned what type of man to respect and how to garner respect from that man.
I’ve also learned from them that it takes two to make it happen and communication as well as living in truth..I tend to get deeper in relationships that mirror theirs as far as respect and boundaries go but have added my own morals, desires, wants/goals as i’ve matured into a woman. My mother taught me how to be a woman and my father taught me how a Man is supposed to treat a woman and how she should treat him. Both parents taught me how to stand on my own, own up to responsibility wrong or write, speak up for myself and how to shake em’ off if necessary in life, love and bidness’.

By Mo (now known as Moeisha)

January 28, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

ARed No I missed the Mixer this year! Glad you had a good time! Like I said I really enjoyed last years so I hated to miss out on this years Mixer.

Kinderbabe Co-signing your post chica!

SexyLeggs My first ideas about love and relationship was puppy love and the gushy butterflie feeling you get when you see him in the hallway (LOL). I use to wonder what that feeling would be like in adulthood. Can you still get that feeling in Adulthood?? LOL

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

I meant the difference ‘tween wrong and right…Gee

By pisces08

January 28, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Morning All. I agree with the Healthy 2 parent Hhold. A view from both sides. My parents, 40+ yrs. A blueprint of what it takes, good and bad.

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Mornin to ya

If I treated my women like my pops treated my moms, well lets just say I would not be the nice guy that I am to my girlfriends. I never looked to my pops as a relationship expert, I learned the right things to do for a lady by watching him do the opposite. So to me like father like son does not apply, I may have some of his qualities however that does not mean that I will treat my wife the same as he did.

By Lady J

January 28, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Morning Gang!!! Everyone enjoy your day!:)

By abc

January 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

It’s not strictly about examples such as one’s parents can provide. In fact, I’d say that has minimal impact. Negative examples would be more likely to serve as examples of the opposite of what people say they want.

Human biology and psychology motivates people to look for the mate that’s closest to their ideal that will accept them. Typically, people’s ideal has to do with the best looking, most money, power and status, etc. (What constitutes attractiveness is another discussion altogether.) It’s inevitable, though, that sooner or later a better rational choice will appear. What’s to keep one from ditching their mate and going with the better prospect?

Intangible, emotional love is the answer to that question. You know if it’s there or not, in yourself and in your intended. If someone never commits, then they’ve never met one with which they have that kind of connection. Rational choice is insufficient to motivate commitment, and examples learned from parents have to do with rational choices, not emotional ones.

On the other hand, over-emphasis on rational choice can certainly ruin a love affair. Ironically (to me), this is descriptive of a typical female’s approach. That’s why statistically, far and away and most of the time, the one who is leaving the relationship is the female.

By Lady J

January 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Morning Gang!!! Everyone enjoy your day!:)

By Lady J

January 28, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Morning Gang!!! Everyone enjoy your day!:)

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Great posts Jazzyone and pisces08. I agree.

I’ve learned from my parents that love is not enough. You have to have the will power to stay even when it gets hard. You have to remember your vows. You have to have faith in the person you chose. You have to have RESPECT for that person and your union.

By melo

January 28, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Typically, people’s ideal has to do with the best looking, most money, power and status, etc Not true at all.

By melo

January 28, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

You have to remember your vows. like Hilary!

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Folks, you know the bigger issue in this discussion is how we feel about ourselves vs. what we get from our parent’s.

I find that 8 outta 10 times as adults,our behaviors,ideas,thoughts, etc. come from how we view ourselves and people around us.

I cannot say I was shocked,when I recently read a NY time article,that said a very high number of people in the world suffer from low self-esteem and 85 percent of people in the world are average at best and followers instead of leaders.

Think about it,if the above really exists, then how do you think each of those folks will handle their relationships?

Will they think effectively and productively or will they just spin their wheels and hope for the best?

If a man thinks less of his self,how will he treat a woman that has high self worth, despite the fact that he may be successful in his career, but failing in other areas, such as his personal life and finances?

Our experiences as children often shape our ideas, thoughts and feelings as adults.

If a woman has never had a successful relationship, but is beautiful on the outside,sucessful and independent,will she truly give a good man a chance to change her perception of men in general?

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Yup, like Hilary and millions of other spouces that find themselves in difficult situations in their marriage.

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Mo, I believe you can still get that feeling in adulthood. It won’t be puppy love, but that smile on your heart each time you see him or hear his voice is just as good.

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Morning all…

Blow Me I agree with you all the way.

Melo the only reason Hillary remembered her vows is because she had aplan to run for President. If Bill was some everyday Joe she would have left him last last years dirty draws! Once a man cheats on me there nothing to discuss except how fast he can get the heck out of my life and we can remove my foot that is lodged in his azz! LOL

It’s strange, they say like father like son…ever think that that daughter can take on characteristics of the father…even if they are no good? Oddly enough, although I hate the person my bio-dad is and the things that he does…after going through enough ordeals with men I find that I have taken on some of his traits. I am not sure if these things have always been in me and I maybe surpressed them. Or did they develop afterwards…like post traumatic stress syndrome? I wonder! But let me not go into too much detail..I may get called every name in the book for stating my opinion!

By Rell

January 28, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

@LL, good post and you already know the answer to your questions…lol..pro women, anti-male

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Morning all…

Blow Me I agree with you all the way.

Melo the only reason Hillary remembered her vows is because she had aplan to run for President. If Bill was some everyday Joe she would have left him last last years dirty draws! Once a man cheats on me there nothing to discuss except how fast he can get the heck out of my life and we can remove my foot that is lodged in his azz! LOL

It’s strange, they say like father like son…ever think that that daughter can take on characteristics of the father…even if they are no good? Oddly enough, although I hate the person my bio-dad is and the things that he does…after going through enough ordeals with men I find that I have taken on some of his traits. I am not sure if these things have always been in me and I maybe surpressed them. Or did they develop afterwards…like post traumatic stress syndrome? I wonder! But let me not go into too much detail..I may get called every name in the book for stating my opinion!

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Morning, folks…..

By DasV

January 28, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I find that 8 outta 10 times as adults,our behaviors,ideas,thoughts, etc. come from how we view ourselves and people around us.

Our experiences as children often shape our ideas, thoughts and feelings as adults.

LongLurker can you quantify those two statements??….. i am confused. (if it is that as children we learn to view ourselves in a particular way and that self-opinion dictates to large degree how we interact as adults, then i agree and need no clarification… )

By Beautiful

January 28, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Melo the only reason Hillary remembered her vows is because she had aplan to run for President. If Bill was some everyday Joe she would have left him last last years dirty draws! Once a man cheats on me there nothing to discuss except how fast he can get the heck out of my life and we can remove my foot that is lodged in his azz! LOL

^5. Amen!

By mytwocents

January 28, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

What’s up Y’all Rell single mothers will handicap there son Yes, but mothers period and some of us sisters(siblings) too. I always say I hate to see a full grown man who’s still on the te@t!!!(But not in a good way lol) Meaning we need to stop nursing boys after they’re toddlers, let alone after they’re beyond voting age. I must confess to being an enabler, too - many of us are. Sometimes being overly-supportive (no fee living/ allowing joblessness/ catering to whims ie 30 yr old rapper dreams, etc.) can truly be a disservice. I have a brother and I see the syndrome with him, tho of course he’s in denial :)

Mo Can you still get that feeling in Adulthood?? LOL Do you have Alicia Keys’ new CD? She has a song on there called Teenage Love Affair & everytime I hear it, I WISH I could feel that way! But as a grown @zz woman, I’m sure it would require not knowing so much of what I already know. Afterall, ignorance is bliss.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

LOL. People make the decision to stay with “everyday Joe’s” everyday of the week. Doesn’t matter if you are successful or not. The decision to stay with a cheating spouse is not always black and white.

By melo

January 28, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Staceye she remembered because she luvs him and she knows she was committed.Stop the hateful spin on them.She could have left him after Flowers and all the other slew of women Bill bedded,Streisand included.She could have still run for prez after divorcing him, her stock, in the eyes of women, would have been even higher.So ur argument dont hold water to me.If u say they have an open mariage and that she has her own ish, i will be tempted.

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Ok I see my computer has the stuttering problem today doing the double post!

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

don’t take this the wrong way, but QC, you wouldn’t happen to be a victim of what twocents said, would ya? I mean the way you be takin’ up for Darrell, sure looks like it…..

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Can you still get that feeling in Adulthood??

Yep you sure can if you drop the baggage, love self, love with an open heart and stand firm on your own truth and acceptance of what you want, need in your life and whom you birng into your zone. One has to be vulnerable to garner such feelings from another. It doesn’t mean jump in head first in the shallow end, but I know for a fact one can feel this way…

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

@DasV You summed up what I was trying to say!

In most cases, our experiences as children often shape our experiences as adults.

Example - I find that a large percentage of folks that I have worked with over they years, who are over achievers were seen as nerds or outcasts when growing up and never really fit in, so while others had a social life, they often focused their energies in education or activities that enhanced their overall intellect and now as an adult, they excel in the work place or hold leadership positions, but still suck at anything out side of that.

Many times they still see themselves as the victim and blame others for their shortcomings, instead of focusing the same energies they used in developing their intellect to improve their social skills.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

melo - I go back and forth. Some days I think I’d respect her more if she left. Other days I think I respect her more because she stayed.

It’s the part about Bill being a reported habitual cheater that makes me give the situation the gas face. But I’ve also known cheaters that have turned it all around.

By Rell

January 28, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

@LL….i see you giving up that good game today…i pop my collar to you player

By abc

January 28, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Define social skills.

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Melo nope…she is milking Bill’s guit for all it’s worth! Making him feel like crap for her public humilation. I am sure his is still kissing her azz today…hence how he is running all over the country doing her bidding/campaining and tiring himself out even after a quadruple by-pass! Maybe that is why he feel asleep last week at the church! LOL Even though his infidelity was public knowledge..divorcing him would have made her stock go down internationally. Its bad enough men here do not believe a woman can or should be president becase they are stuck in those, “I am MAN..I am LAW” machisomo ways. But a divorced woman, no matter what her reason is, would be further looked down upon, especially in the countries that are against women being anything other than a meek baby having, glorified maid! So he is serving his purpose. So when you think a woman is dealing with a mans crap just because she loves him…think again. A smart woman has a plan and an agenda as to why she will look stupid and stay with a cheating man. It’s not always what it seems. Now there are some idiotic women who will stay for love….love don’t cheat on you! But a trife partner will! Cut your ties! Once a cheat…always a cheat! Once a person shows you that they CAN cheat on you…what will stop them from doing it again…love? HA…it didn’t stop them the first time! Does a house have to fall on you to realize when it’s time to take out the trash and let the trashman take it away for good?

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

I go back and forth. Some days I think I’d respect her more if she left. Other days I think I respect her more because she stayed.

ARed, I think about this exact statement often in terms of how my daughter will see things when see gets older.

JazzyOne, you nailed it!

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Staceye - what up! 1st if you want to go into detail about your own life then thats cool. I dont think folks will call you out about things you’ve gone thru, if they do Blow will tear them to pieces for you.

It’s strange, they say like father like son…ever think that that daughter can take on characteristics of the father…even if they are no good? -I wanted to ask you and the rest of the ladies, what about Like Mother Like Daughter? What about the fact that she has a never satified, complain-aholic, nosey as h3ll mom? See to me these are the types of traits that are easily passed down. If your Mom or Pops doesn’t settle down and just has long-term S.O.’s that does not mean that the kid will do the same. But arguing all the time Mamma’s will make some arguing all the dam time Daughters!

By DasV

January 28, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

LL thought so but wanted to be sure. -good to read ya-

wheres CEEcee??

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

SexyLeggs - Interesting observation. I guess it also depends on how much information she’s privy too. It’s easy for us to pass judgement on Bill and Hillary looking from the outside in. We don’t know the true dynamics of thier relationships and what makes it work… or even if they are truly happy. They’ve spent over 25 years together building their empire. I suspect they are navigating ups and downs on both sides.

It just makes me think of the move The Best Man. Lance was out there sticking and moving every chick out there. But Mia was making a strategic move of her own. Not saying this is an example of a successful relationship to emulate, but it just goes to show that you never really know what lies beneath the surface in other folks households.

By melo

January 28, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

But a divorced woman, no matter what her reason is, would be further looked down upon, especially in the countries that are against women being anything other than a meek baby having, glorified maid But voting is done here in the States so how do the opinion of pple in far away lands influence how ppl here in the states would have voted for her.I think u are trying to extend ur own formed opinions of men onto this Hilary thing and hw she interacts with her hubby.Intelligent women like Hilary have same feelings as any other woman in luv,just like u or my mom.U are all vulnerable to the dyck and it makes u behave in lock step, in a majority of cases.Admit it and move on instead of spinning stories that have never been proven since whitewater

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Sexyleggs being a single mom of a daughter who will be a teen soon…what do you tell her about boys/men so she can make informed decisions…basically the choices that you hope she will make witht he values you have taught her?

ARed at first I thought Hillary was stupid for staying then I started thinking..she is probably gonna to run for President and she needs that family stand to have her back. That woman is no dummy! LOL

By Mo (now known as Moeisha)

January 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

900K aka Mr 2008 Like Mother, Like Daughter is very possible. The same way it is with Dads and sons. As someone said, that’s not to say that is HAS to be that way but it does happen. I have a friend that is in a cycle and she cant see it. Her mother and all of her aunts (mom’s sisters) are bitter women, with no men to talk of. And her grandmother was single as well. To sit and talk with them is enough to make any woman hate a man (if you arent careful and level headed). Me and some otha sista friends have already come to the conclusion that our friend doesnt realize she does the same things as her mother and aunts. Downing a man every chance they get, never satisfied and if one of them meets a decent guy, the others trash him quickly and destroy it! Pitiful to say the least

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

LOL @ melo and whitewater. LMAO!

900k - I’m definitely like mother, like daughter. My mom is a great wife who build a great household. I’d be willing to stay at home to raise my kids like she did. I got a home cooked meal every night! I am cognizant of the fact that she is a nag and I try to not be that one. That’s just because I talk to my dad and I know that is one of the traits about her that makes him want to gnaw his arm off. LOL! But maybe if he helped out more around the house, she wouldn’t have to nag!!!

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

@Staceye You sound like you have been a few rounds with charley the cheater and he stuck you with a few low blows in the 4th and 8th round and a TKO in the 9th!

Just because some one cheats (for any multitude of reasons) does not mean that they will always cheat again! Listen to yourself and how you sound!

Obviously, something was lacking and that is why that person cheated. There are folks that were drug addicts or alcoholics, who have quit cold turkey, to never use drugs or drink again. Are cheaters an exception?

I hear often, mostly from women, that once a cheater, always a cheater and that statement is simply not true!

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Well, Staceye, even if she didn’t run for president, it doesn’t make her stupid for staying.

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Let Stacyee carry her own baggage. she posted her feelings and they are hers to carry….thats her view its hard not to post a response to her, but save ya’s breath its a daily thing..its where shes at and shes entittled to it….period…lets not waste an entire day posting about her and what she posts…shes happy so be it…whatever…

By JustMe

January 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Good Morning All

There are a lot of great comments this morning, I have to say that I agree with In most cases, our experiences as children often shape our experiences as adults. I know mines are!

No so long ago I had to admit that as much as I am a “Daddy’s Girl”, ain’t no way in the he!! I would allow a man to treat me the way Dad treated my mother. My dad was and still is an awesome father, but he was a lousy husband to my mother and to his current wife. On the surface everything looks good, but when you get to the nuts and bolts of things, he is no good.

Yes I think (know) this effects the way I view dating and relationships

I have my mothers soul when it comes to dating. I will see things and say nothing waiting to verify my suspicions, not by snooping and other deceptive means, but by the actions of the man. I have learned that if you wait, they will tell on themselves everytime. My reaction is the part that scares me….. I can walk away and never look back….. I hate knowing that I can flip that emotional switch on and off like a lamp. But I have many times in the past, and dare say I probably will again.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Chick: So what are your feelings on marriage?

For Real: I got to pee!

Chick: ummm okay…

For Real: Sorry about that I had been holding it for awhile. Check out ole girl in that dress, would you wear something like that?

Chick: Okay no problem and no I wouldn’t wear that dress.

For Real: Yeah I couldn’t see you in it either. What type…

Chick: Now back to my original question? What are you feelings on marriage? Me I base my feelings and ideas on my parents marriage.

For Real: Well ummm… I’m not sure in what context about marriage do you want me to comment on.

Chick: Well do you base your preceptions of marriage on your parents?

For Real: Naw…

Chick: Why not?

For Real: Well lets just say my last name is Turner and my mamma name is Annie May

Chick passes f/k out

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

melo true the voting takes place in the states..but should she win, she would have to deal with leaders all over the world..amde up of men! She is going to have to already go balls to the wall to prove herself to these men. And some of them will hold it against her just because she is a woman number one…the last thing she needs is to give them ammo against her. As dumb as it sounds…they would say her inability to keep her husbnad from seeking out other women shows she can’t keep a country togther. Although she has no control over a grwn azz man’s actions…those idiots would use it as a scapegoat excuse to give her yet another strike! sad but true!

LL Obviously, something was lacking and that is why that person cheated that is the biggest cop out! If something is lacking…either work on it by really communicating with the person or just ending it! Cheating is selfish…you can’t have both! There is NO EXCUSE for cheating! I have ended things before I cheated. If it’s not working..why try to hold on to it…but then go cheat and blame the other person for your own voluntary actions? No YOU as the cheater are the blame for YOUR cheating! That is like an abusive man saying I beat my wife because she doesn’t do what I say. No, you beat your wife because YOU chose to!

I hear how I sound…A leopard never changes its spots nor does a tiger change its stripes! Once a cheat…well you know the rest!

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Staceye, at 13 she would prefer that I not ask her about boys. So, I do! I try my best not to tell her what I deem to be a fine man because I don’t want her to think looks are extremely important. I talk to her A LOT about character and respect. However, I have told her she could NEVER date anyone who’s pants sag (if that dumba$$ fashion is still around when she starts dating). I talk to her that no boy should ever put his hands on her even while playing. I told her a boy that disrespects his parents will disrespect her and me. As time goes by I tell her different things. One thing she knows for sure is the moral fiber of a person is top of the list.

900K, I am a lot like my mother. I have her sharp tongue and her quick mind. More importantly, like her, I have a healty dosage of self-esteem and am empathetic to a fault!

By melo

January 28, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

melo - I go back and forth. like u correctly said, every rela. and marriage has its own dynamics and what makes it tick.The general rules that we hear on this board do not apply in real life sometimes.Plle make mistakes, and all over again too, in real.And quite a lot have been known to stick together, in sickness,health and ups and donws like cheating.Some pple just dont take vows seriuosly, i think.Marriage is work, for ur entire lyfe.To make it work, u work at it everyday and learn to give, get and forgive and move on.

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

“but should she win, she would have to deal with leaders all over the world..amde up of men! She is going to have to already go balls to the wall to prove herself to these men. And some of them will hold it against her just because she is a woman number one…the last thing she needs is to give them ammo against her.”…….

…..Condi Rice, Madelaine Albright, etc…..women on the world stage dealing with men….they seem to be doing just fine…

By JustMe

January 28, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

For Real LMAO

By Tazzee

January 28, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Morning folks!

I don’t remember who said what - but I have to agree with the poster that said Lila should take Paul as he is. Paul may have looked at his dad to learn what NOT to do.

I am nothing like my mother, I learned what NOT to do in relationships from her - almost to a fault. My mother was the type that would place her man above everything. I remember getting cussed out at the tender of age of 4 because she couldn’t be with her man due to my sister and me. Then when my sister got older she took on that same mentality - when a man came around nothing else mattered. I noticed the same trait in my younger sister. So for a long time I went through life dating guys but making sure they knew they weren’t very high on my totem pole. As I grew older, I learned how to balance it out and give top priority only to the guys that deserved it.

Mo sure you can get that feeling in Adulthood - I have it right now. Teenage Love Affair is one of my favorite songs on Alicia’s CD

By Rell

January 28, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

@jazzy…i agree…lets not focus the whole day on staceye…funny thing is…folks want the honesty and when they get it..they want to cut it with the sugar…staceye is honest about her feelings…..live with it SQUARES

By GutzTaKnow

January 28, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Does Staceye have a Perty Mouth?

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

melo - That was beautiful! LOL

I think every marriage is going to be confronted with something that is a “deal breaker” to someone else. It’s up to you to determine if you can work thru it or not. To many folks today give up way too easily. They deserve to be single. LOL

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

2C Condi is single isn’t she? (Not married) Not to mention she is not the President. People would have a problem with a single man as a president…nonetheless a woman..or a divorced woman for that fact. Although the divorce rate is up in the US…people still tend to put the family pedestal as a criteria for being the commander in chief!

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Gotta have a good relationship with yourself before you can have one with someone else thats where it all starts…

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Only in our community would we destroy an empire for a sexual organ. Throughout history powerful ppl have had affairs or outright cheat with their partners knowledge (english courts were filled with lovers of both the king and queen). Whoever rates their mate, especially if its a man, on fidelity is looking for reason to exit stage left. The majority of men will cheat, especially if the woman was just sexxing for a ring and then stops, which is quite common.

Hillary is driven and could probably care less who Bill sleeps with.Actually I here she’s probably joined in herself a time or 2. She has, despite anything he’s done, an opportunity to run the world. Overlooking a bj or 2 is a small thing in comparison.

For those that want to have a talk about where the relationship is going spend more time performing and less talking. Get your skills up. Someone could want to be in a relationship until they meet you. Asking general questions about how someone feels about commitment is stupid when all you have to do is look at their performance. The writing is on the wall.

Fellas, before you cheat make sure home is taken care of. These chicks will stay if she knows theres not much better out there. If you dont take care of home she’s out. LOL

By Mo (now known as Moeisha)

January 28, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Tazzee I am so glad that you and some others here believe in obtaining those teenage feelings in adulthood. I just have such fond memories of what that felt like, but that’s all they are memories! LOL I am sure that at some point I will experience that again…someday :0)

By melo

January 28, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

As dumb as it sounds…they would say her inability to keep her husbnad from seeking out other women shows she can’t keep a country togther. im not sure even u believe that shallow crap.

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

@Staceye I respect your feelings on this issue, but you are right and wrong in the same voice.

Listen,personally,I have never been the one to cheat and you did not know I was going there. If I am going to do something, you will know it well in advance, because I will have given you several yellow lights prior to the jumpoff. This was my attitude in my teens and 20’s. Now, I wil just end the relationship and keep it movin…

Again,as I have said many times before, men in most cases will tell you when they are unhappy or missing something that is important to them, that you are not doing. If you choose to ignore it or think his words are rhetoric, then he will show you better than he can tell you!

I am not saying this is the case always,but most of the time! No I am sure if I had a convo with ole boy, it would flow entirely different, as to why he stepped out. Call it what you want, but there is always a cause and effect!

Cheating with men normally boils down to how that other woman makes him feel emotionally,the other woman does something in bed,that you don’t do, the other chick showers him with lavish gifts or trips or he feels comfortable talking with her, when he cannot no longer talk with you.

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Secretary of State is a powerful position, Ms. Lady…..and you say people would have a problem with a single man as president? Says who? Are you interjecting your feelings into this, or, are you basing this on current studies? Cause current studies and polls tell me that with the aging of the Boomer generation, and the new voters of today being Generation X’ers, and Techies, the paradigm has shifted tremendously, and what they wanted, or were against yesterday, is not closely associated with what they want today….i.e..a black man with even a remote chance of being elected!!!!!!

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Only in our community would we destroy an empire for a sexual organ. Throughout history powerful ppl have had affairs or outright cheat with their partners knowledge (english courts were filled with lovers of both the king and queen).

I feel this. Doesn’t make it right, but it is what it is.

That’s why it is KEY be confident in the person you pick as your HUSBAND or WIFE. Most folks with chronic cheaters or druggies or alkys as a spouse knew exactly what they were capable of when they got married. You’ve gotta be willing to know their flaws and their STRENGTHS and weigh the pros and cons. Love should always be a factor, but you should use your head too.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Date continued…..

For Real: WTF!!! Annie May get yo azz off that flo embarrassin me

Chick: I’m sorry… did you just call me Annie May?

For Real: Oh… I’m sorry.. just eat your pea soup

Chick: I don’t like pea soup!

For Real: Now, now, girl I don brought you to dis nice restaurant.. you gon eat it or wear it

Chick: You are scaring me…. I don’t know who you are

For Real: I’m sorry baby I don’t know what came over me baby. It’s not me it’s that nacotic talkin baby.

Chick dives out of the restaurant window.

By Cinda Fella

January 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

@LL 11:26 post

Dawg, are you saying it’s safe to say overall, men cheat because they’re lacking something in the marriage?

Or

Do you believe men can cheat or be tempted, due to timing? Wife is good but meets another woman with just as good qualities. If not for timing or wasn’t married would definitely get with the her? Not sure I agree with your being the spokesman for all men and the definitive on men cheating with the underlying reason that the relationship lacks somewhere. Is it not possible to have thing fairly good marriage with wifey and yet have an overwhelming attraction to another woman because good qualities but can’t because of timing?

By Tazzee

January 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Jazzy “Gotta have a good relationship with yourself before you can have one with someone else thats where it all starts…” - I definitely agree with that statement.

By Cinda Fella

January 28, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

@LL 11:26 post

Dawg, are you saying it’s safe to say overall, men cheat because they’re lacking something in the marriage?

Or

Do you believe men can cheat or be tempted, due to timing? Wife is good but meets another woman with just as good qualities. If not for timing or wasn’t married would definitely get with the her? Not sure I agree with your being the spokesman for all men and the definitive on men cheating with the underlying reason that the relationship lacks somewhere. Is it not possible to have thing fairly good marriage with wifey and yet have an overwhelming attraction to another woman because good qualities but can’t because of timing?

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

*Melo I do….especially in those cultures in the world that don’t think women should speak..just do as she is told. They have that mentality that her only job is to worry about home and pleasing her husband and being his servant and popping out more of his sons to become just as ignorant as he is. They would say it was her fault that her man strayed because she was not staying in her “place” and being the meek weak wife!

By Poppa Grande

January 28, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Staceye I agree with you to a point but for different reasons.

Bill has already gone as far as he can go in the US and, held the highest office in the US. She has been there throughout it all. It may just be her turn to go for her goals. Take a look around most politics, there are very few single people that hold offices. You have to at least put up a front of a family to get elected. In the 231 year history of the US there has only been one bachelor president. (Pierce) We read about all the craziness that politicans do. Bill is far from the only elected official that cheated on his wife. Heck, he isn’t even the first President. Kennedy was a known womanizer.

ARed hit the nail on the head in that we don’t know what goes on behind doors and how the Clinton relationships work. The sad thing is that many of the powerful families marriages aren’t about love. They are treated more as business arrangements. This could very well be that type of thing. They have show a family image (notice that Chelsea was just here in the ATL visiting Spelman).

How man people would vote for a person that couldn’t keep their family together (male or female)?

By 6'1 & luvinit

January 28, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

I am responding to the comment like mother, like daughter. All the kids in my neighborhood hated me and use to pick on me all the time. I use to wonder why. Then I noticed the all the other kids parents were either married or common law. My mother was the only one in the entire neighborhood that wasn’t married. She use to dress really flamboyant and she had the looks of a model and she wasn’t even from this country. She was called a prostitute and other things of that nature. All the older women called her a home wrecker. I was too young to understand what was taking place around me. But to say the least my dad was married and everyother man my mother ever dealt with was too. So I try not to fall in line but I think that is a generational curse. Maybe not but, lets just say that I have wrecked a few homes in my lifetime and I regret it every day but for some reason or another, that cheesecake just looks so damn good on somebody else plate than when it is on mines.

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

On the Hillary fo Pres issue, here are my thoughts…

Hilliary has a great backgound, without really sayin ish..

Her past record does not really represent minorities or workin folks and on top of that,other countries, where women are looked at as second class citizens, we will run into a major issue with Hillary leading our governement and open ourselves up to further attacks. In some countries, their leaders will not even meet with her or give her the time of day!

Overall,from a democratic side, I think Obama and Edwards would serve the working class and minorities much better. Both have grass roots ideas and both have worked extensively serving the people and understand our issues.

I am personally tired of millionaires, who run for President,to make $400,000 a year,it makes no sense and it is all about power!

Their interests are not our interest and their worlds are definitely not ours! Hillary is a millionaire, if you did not get the memo!

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

On the Hillary fo Pres issue, here are my thoughts…

Hilliary has a great backgound, without really sayin ish..

Her past record does not really represent minorities or workin folks and on top of that,other countries, where women are looked at as second class citizens, we will run into a major issue with Hillary leading our governement and open ourselves up to further attacks. In some countries, their leaders will not even meet with her or give her the time of day!

Overall,from a democratic side, I think Obama and Edwards would serve the working class and minorities much better. Both have grass roots ideas and both have worked extensively serving the people and understand our issues.

I am personally tired of millionaires, who run for President,to make $400,000 a year,it makes no sense and it is all about power!

Their interests are not our interest and their worlds are definitely not ours! Hillary is a millionaire, if you did not get the memo!

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

some of y’all killin me with the double talk……If I’m not mistaken, the country just celebrated *MLK Day last week……..wasn’t he a known womanizer…..but it’s sacrilegious to talk about him……GMAFB!!!!

By melo

January 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

especially in those cultures in the world that don’t think women should speak..just do as she is told seems like Hilary is not abiding by these pple’s in other nations and ur advice on this coz she needs to be at home making Bill some cookies and tea.

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the insight Mo, Leggs & ARed

I can definately relate to your story Mo I went on a road trip to meet my ex’s mother & fam. When I got there I was just about the only man in the room of 10 women! only 2 of them were married and they talk to their husbands like they’re kids not only that the sisters would talk about this one husband like he wasn’t even there! The house was small so it really bugged me out, he went outside mad. One sister asked “How is John doing?” -right in the husbands face! According to my ex John was a co-worker who walks her married aunt to her car and call her on the cell phone. her moms was the coolest one but those aunts was the worst. I broke up with her as soon as we got back!

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Ahh but you see Obama is a Millionaire and so are the other dem/pubs in the bunch…

By Beautiful

January 28, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

As dumb as it sounds…they would say her inability to keep her husbnad from seeking out other women shows she can’t keep a country togther. not true. it made (her) us stronger!.

By melo

January 28, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Hillary is a millionaire, if you did not get the memo i can debate u about this on Thinking Right if u dont mind.Edwards is a better millioanirte than Clinton and Obama has a few of those too, although her net worth is climbing.The only way we can stop millianaires from running if is u and I make a go at it. I am sure u are as poor as iam.Why dont u make a start and i will follow ur lead?

And MLK liked dem girls too even when Coretta was busy with the kids at home.So dont just like what u want to like,look at the total package and u’ll see holes in every marriage.

By mytwocents

January 28, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Of course we can get that initial zing when we get a call or text or see him… but the euphoria of a teeny booper type of thing is maintained thru passing notes in Homeroom, brooding stares at lunch and googly eyes across the class during 7th period. Flash fwd 20 yrs when there’s more to juggle in your mind than your crush - there’s ya boss who has u close 2 the edge, folks callin w/ drama all day long, misplaced road rage AND whatever baggage we may have. You then realize that it takes so much more to motivate people to build and maintain sustainable relationships. Cuz those teenage love affairs usually last about 3 weeks and I want more longevity than that. And LL I don’t know why we fight so hard against it sometimes, but I also don’t know why men won’t just say what they’re saying. Stop w/ the hints and roundabout warnings. Just like I’ve heard “women expect us to read their minds, just tell us what u want for…” Even in the MOST hurtful relationships a lot of us will hang by that one thread unless and until he spells it out for us that it’s a done deal. And yes, it’s sometimes b/c in addition to being in love, it’s hard to accept how much you can lose on this emotional investment which never quite matured at the rate you had hoped. But also, I think it’s a just a technique used so men (those who do this) can feel blameless. “It’s not my fault if she didn’t read the signs. They were crystal clear.”

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

LL again..he can just end the relationship…no need for cheating!

2C Yes it is a high position..but it s not president. Some folks still believe a woman should not be a pastor. She can be anything else in the church even the second highest position…but let her go become pastor and that is where the problem is. Stupid..but true! Why do you think people will try to get married and put on heirs as a family man/woman so people feel more secure. Not all..I am not stating that. But the right-wingers try to act as if married is the only way to be. Do I agree with it..no! But in some cases that is the way it is.

melo that is why the other nations would look down on her! No respect for a woman who is holding her own and waiting for a man to take care of her.

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

@Cinda Fella Nah, I ain’t the spokesman for the mens club, but I am definitely on the board of directors!

Dudes are physical, point blank and there will always be temptation out there, but if you look at the average dude with a wife and kids, he is not going to jeopardize loosing the farm for a piece of tale, if he is happy at home and no problems persist on the horizon.

There are always exceptions and special circumstances, but if you give the average dude, who the the key words are “happy with what he has in a wife and family” will not risk disappointing or loosing his wife over some other broad,esp. if that broad is not a come up or he has something to gain from rolling the dice.

Now if something is missing or things ain’t right with the home team, then yeah, the grass on the other side definitely looks greener. I have at least 4 married partners, who go out all the time and ppl watch, esp. with women, but other than that, each one will tell you in a minute, that they are happy with what they got and ain’t gonna think about messin with no other broad.

I got two partners, who wives have gotten fluffy or not doing what they used to do and those cat’s are definitely weighing their options outside of the marriage and I amm sure at least one has cheated.

By Mo (now known as Moeisha)

January 28, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

900K aka Mr 2008 My girlfriend freaks me out sometimes with her male bashing! But then when I have her around my family she is all “You are so lucky MO, the men in your family are cool”. I dont hang around her much now that we are older b/c I dont share her views about men and I dont want to even let her views seep into my subconscious.

Poppa Grande you posed a very serious question, How man people would vote for a person that couldn’t keep their family together (male or female)? America loves to say that those in the public eye are role models and hold them accountable for all that is wrong in the world. Society at large count handle someone who cant hold their household together b/c they wouldnt be objective enough to know that there is more to the story than what is being shown. If Hilary had left Bill, that would be b/w her and Bill…JMHO. It would have no bearing on how he or she would run a country

By JustMe

January 28, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

I don’t agree that men cheat because the woman is lacking in some area of the relationship and vice versa (in most cases). People cheat because that is their intention. No matter if the house is clean, the children clean, the pets fed, the garden tended, the yards mowed, the laundry done, the freezer full, the pantry alphabetized, the pillows fluffed the sheets washed weekly, dinner every night a 6PM, the $ex off da chain and on the regular……. no matter all of this things if it is in a man or womans heart to find someone to cheat with for whateva reason or none at all that’s what they are going to do. They don’t need to be tempted or a reason, it’s just in their heart and mind, and they are gonna do it regardless of how many tricks their mate has up their sleeve and the frequency with which they display them.

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

…Flash fwd 20 yrs when there’s more to juggle in your mind than your crush - there’s ya boss who has u close 2 the edge, folks callin w/ drama all day long, misplaced road rage AND whatever baggage we may have. You then realize that it takes so much more to motivate people to build and maintain sustainable relationships

Yes, but when you’re open to a relationship and you’ve thrown away as much baggage as you think you can you may not have google eyes across the lunchroom counter becuase you’re more mature, but as JazzyOne said 11:01, it’s definitely possible.

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Staceye….really, do you think other nations give a ratz azz about our leaders, and their respective moral compass?

By DasV

January 28, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Hillary is tipping outside the marriage too…. dont get it twisted… even if its just with her love-affair with power and control. at times, neither have done the marriage justice.

By melo

January 28, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

mytwocents, just tell us what u want for…” i feel ur pain sometimes, but u need to know ur man just as he has to know u.Mix it up in ur realtionship and hopefully u will be rewarded.One great skill u can learn is to cook.Most men luv to eat from their woman’s plate and the thoght that my woman prepared it for me is one of the most satisfying as far as men go.

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

ya know…..I seriously doubt Hillary has cheated on Bill; may be wrong, but I doubt it….

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Staceye - I can see why men disappoint you in every relationship you’ve been in. Your expectations are not too high, they are unrealistic. Not one relationship on this earth is without flaws. How you learn to navigate the ebbs and flows will speak to the success of them. I wish you luck as you hopefully move closer to wanting to date and eventually settle down.

By Mo (now known as Moeisha)

January 28, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

JustMe I don’t agree that men cheat because the woman is lacking in some area of the relationship and vice versa (in most cases). People cheat because that is their intention. I agree with the first part of your statement but not necessarily the second. But I think people cheat b/c they are selfish. Like Staceye said, you should just leave as opposed to cheating. Now those that are just outright selfish, dont-need-motivation-to-cheat individuals urk me. But I have talked to married folks that did counseling, talked to their spouse to no avail and so they felt they had to bounce (or cheat).

By DasV

January 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

just cause she aint be caught?? plus outside of cheating in the conventional sense, you dont think that hillary has put the marriage on a back-burner to her pursuit of power and control??? i dont think she is contributing or accomplishing the ‘wifey’ things as she should, cause she is so caught up in her career. and bill on the other hand was trynna to do both…. and a kingdom divided unto itself etc etc etc

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Guliani is still a serious contender for president and he flaunted his mistress all over NY state. He certainly couldn’t keep his home together nor did he care to. Folks forgot about his personal life real quick after those towers started falling. Humph.

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

so I guess Chelsea raised herself, then, huh?

By Cemeeli

January 28, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Good Afternoon People Cee speed blogging 2day and waving @ everyone

This is a great topic. Wow so far the comments have been interesting. …reading…and reading

@MO - Seems as my and your sentiments are about same so i wont double state. missed BOB…lng stry

@900K - Sat. w/12-12 no OT, no rematch. oh & your early 10:07am post was real.

Hey DasV…walking hard today i see. Cee around just lurking today…

Oh…YES i’m falling in love with my next Boe like a “young and foolish” girl. But that’s me…matter fact i’m still young and ridiculous…LOL!

By melo

January 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Staceye what do u think of men who hit wives.Bushy has slept that poor Laura a couple of times in the past in Crawford.They are still grinding in matrimonial bliss..Unless the world becomes perfect, some of u will never marry coz u’ll be doing ur investment analysis in the dating game untill kingdon comes.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

melo - Bush has stuck his stick in other chicks countless times. The difference is he’s much more discrete because he’s had folks covering up his indescretions since his teenage years.

My kinfolk (lol) are a politcal family in Texas. One little dark secret of the Bush family is that Dubya has another set of twins… by a black woman.

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Melo ^5 Amen to that..and some are perpetual victims…

By Kym-Proud Steeler Nation Member since 1994

January 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

I dont know about Hillary or Bill. But having dated a married man or two. They cheat for various reasons. One because he was bored and wanted something new. One because frankly he didnt feel like his wife understood him,and he felt neglected. these are just in my dealings-I am sure there are several other factors. As I stated the other day I learned something from experiences and the one thing I learned from those experiences is that being married and becoming one, doesnt mean you lose one’s self. I know the word selfish is out there on the table. But we are all selfish creatures. We tend to take for granted that at the saying of I do, all the work in a relationship stops. One of my auntie’s told me that is actually when the work really starts.

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

2C great 1220. You can add Bill Cosby, Jesse, MJ, and a slew of others. Men cheat when they have options. Money gives you options.

Nature will always be served. If your girl doesn’t fluck you let her know she’s not meeting the standard and if she cant make the adjustment get azz somewhere else. Its that simple. What it comes down to is a battle of wills. If you think her booty is that special you’ll stay and she won’t have to produce. She now has a great control tool.

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

If that’s true, Amazon, prolly be like Strom Thurmond’s daughter; you keep quiet bout this, and I’ll take care of ya all my days….you can say what you want when I die, though……

By melo

January 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Ared,Staceye and anybodyelse so i think, as it relates to this topic, if u are arround successful pple in marriage(ur parents and friends and acquantainces) u are going to pick up valuable lessons. Any single male or female out there who has intentions of getting married for example may want to invest in a mentor vz mentee type set up.Not in the corporate sense but just in terms of being friends with a couple u admire, observe from the outside and kind see hw they relate, talk to each other and organize their lives.I am sure that helps.Just a thoght.

By Rell

January 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

@melo…the problem is thinking that looking or hanging around you will in some way learn something….not true every couple is different..and dont think that the shiny relationship you see by others is not built on some type of dirt….all relationships that have stood the test of time has some dirt on it….so my advice is find what works best for you and your partner…dont concern yourself with someones else…get yours in order…set your own standards…this is 08 not 88…folks need to shift there thinking

By Poppa Grande

January 28, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

AR Have you looked at Guiliani campaign lately? He hs put all of his eggs in the Florida primary. He hasn’t placed higher than 3rd so far. He is no longer paying his workers. He is not as strong as you think. He is a one trick pony (scaring people about terrorism). However, many folks know about his infidelities. As well as former speakers Newt Gingrich and Livingston.

AS a matter of fac, they both ended up resigning and haven’t held office since.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

2E’s Do you know who Margaret Thatcher is? Can you please stop this hoax that women are being held down. That was in the past but not now.

Ladies leave the fantasy of puppy love alone. It is irrational to think or believe you can reproduce a feeling you had 20 or 30 yrs ago. Oh and stop putting that expectation on men. If you can’t make happen, then how in the hellz is a man suppose to?

Mo Your friend has gotten caught up in the single mom raising her daughter to a single lady and imposing her poor decison making ability onto her daughter. Oh and it is all the man’s fault and not hers.

ARed I commend you on your commitment to the “Commitment”. You are right if it easy and they ain’t happy people run for the hills. Like I said before, making decision based upon the way you feel is totally irrational because no one feels the same way from moment to moment.

By melo

January 28, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Rell the problem is thinking that looking or hanging around you will in some way learn something not around me, i dont proclaim to have a successful one..the jury is still out!But to say u cant learn from somebody else is not accurate in my assessment.I didnt say make urself a carbon copy, have ur opinions alright but if arent an epert in this urself, it cant hurt to see hw somebody in it already is navigating.We all leanr from our experiences, bad and good and latent or formal.

By Kym-Proud Steeler Nation Member since 1994

January 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Newt Gingrich just like Rudy divorced the wife married the mistress. in Newt’s case he was raising holy cane about Bill’s lying while he was tipping out with a political aide. The French prez just divorced his wife and has a newer younger girlfriend-well fiance now and he is seen alround France with her. I think she has a daughter because the most recent pic I saw they were at Disneyland Paris.

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

@Melo On your 1:25, I could not agree more! I have learned so much from the TV show “Scott Baio is 45 and Single and Scott Baio is 46 and prego” than any mentor I could ever find.

His life is a snapshot of mine and I commend his effort to try to settle down and most of all change!

I figure being in my mid 30’s, I have a few more years to ride all the rides at Disney Land, but ultimately I think once I get all of the play out of my system, I will make someone a great husband, but no time soon, unless some chick can tame my outgoing ways..LOL

Afterall,you only live once!

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

For real read between the lines we aren’t saying capture the same EXACT feeling of when you were a child and first feeling of being in love/like…we are saying a pure innocent, genuine caring for another person that isn’t jaded and gives you a great feeling in the heart….people grow and evolve and their depth of feelings do as well..

By Poppa Grande

January 28, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

AR Guiliani is known best for a couple of things as mayor.

(1) the 9/11 attacks (2)locking his wife and kids out of the residence while mayor. The wife and kids were outside the gates. While he and his mistress were in the house chilling.

Most NY that I know have talked more about #2 than #1.

If he was more of a threat, his opponents probably would have brough that up by now.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the shout out For Real. It comes from 30 years of watching my parents (and grandparents) navigate their marriage ups and downs. They don’t always LIKE each other, but they respect the commitment they made. I truly feel my parents are a team. They were successful together, they fell together and everywhere in between. It’s made a huge impact on the way I am today and how I treat other people.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

You learn from both the good and bad in a relationship. If you don’t have both sides then you are learning a fantasy. Which is why “daddy’s girls” have it twisted. Your daddy didn’t show you have man takes care of a woman, he should how father takes care of a daughter. No man will treat like your daddy did because you ain’t his daughter, you are his woman.

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Cee -wait a sec… are you saying the team has a tie? They don’t have OT??? Why even play if that is the case? We have 3 str8 victories baby!!! Them lil dudes played hard came back from being down 3pts with less than 5min on the clock to win 15-10. Oh… and it sounds like you’ve been having a good time being young’n foolish. congrats!

Chris Rock is the answer to all of y’all tired azz bickering on the Clintons. Its old news but if you still have ques?’s on it then watch remember Rock: “Hillary put the whole free world in jeopardy when she failed to perform her duties…” “Ladies you know if you got a crazy need his ck sud all the dam time type of husband… some times you have to save a man from himself!!!”

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

ForRell, I don’t think anyone is trying to recapture “puppy love.” What is being said is the desire/attraction for another that lends one to an emotional high whenever they are w/each other or talk on the phone or wait w/bated breath until the next encounter is not out of reach!

By BLOW ME IS OFFICIALLY BLOWED & THROWED

January 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon everyone!

Can some give me the cliff notes to what’s goin on? Ok..let me go and read

By mytwocents

January 28, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Melo Yes, you do deserve a full tummy :) And I’m surprised how many of my guy friends mention this as a factor of why the eye may wander when they’re sniffin round my leftovers.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Jazzy Now you know aint nothing pure nor innocent about you. lol.. but if you take away pure and innocent you can still genuinely care for another person. Let that jaded feeling go because it leads to 2E’s disease.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Poppa Grande - I get it. I moved on from the Guliani example a while ago. But thanks for sharing your opinion. :-)

By For Real

January 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

For Real now slapping the hellz out of Sexyleggs for medicinal reasons.

Wake Up! And put dem dayumm romance novel down! They put those books under FICTION for a reason.

By I mean really

January 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

@ ALL YA’LL

Folks spittin on here EVERYDAY like they wrote the book on love, life, relationships marriage, etc. Most of ya’ll are divorced, single, looking, wishing, hoping, holding out (after years on giving, indulging, overdoing, etc) and it amazes me that most (not all) really speak as of they are the be all, end all, know (it) all. If you have all the answers (as most of you appear in your posts), then shouldn’t we hear crickets cause everyone is so busy doing what they post daily about? Shouldn’t we have a couple of misfits and about 2 or 3 hits a day? No, what we should have is everyone stating “in my opinion and past experience….blah blah blah” No, we have certified bonfied experts but obviously nowhere to put all that advice. As I stated, if ya’ll were such experts how come most are single, jaded, abused, misused, overlooked, divorced (some twice/thrice over)? Wondering eyes (readers/lurkers) want to know. Don’t get me wrong, some days it’s funny as heck on here but some days I’m amazed at all the self proclaimed experts. Okay I’m ducking now.

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Forreal Can’t you read>> we all have stated its about a feeling…go somewhere and sit down okay…WTF do you think we are talking about here..you missing the entire point…we are ssaying its about a FEELING ..dayum..

Im not jaded honey but you sure sound like it..everyone is not staceye baybeh…

By SlimOne

January 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

LL You know for some reason I like that show too (Scott Baio). It gives a good perspective to the raw thoughts men may have about marriage and becoming parents. Also, when I look at his best friend, the guy who still running behind women, should make some dudes not want to be that guy at his age. I must say he was hating hard at first when Scott first discussed jumping the broom.

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Forreal Can’t you read>> we all have stated its about a feeling…go somewhere and sit down okay…WTF do you think we are talking about here..you missing the entire point…we are ssaying its about a FEELING ..dayum..

Im not jaded honey but you sure sound like it..everyone is not staceye baybeh…

By Cemeeli

January 28, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

900K …that’s exactly what i said Sat.; A TIE…a TIE…and no OT!?! Oh well it was a good game. 3-in-a-row…they doin’ it!

LOL @ Forreal and Sexyleggs…you two got me cracking up over her.

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

I mean it And dome of us are happily dating and single by choice and enjoying this life we are blessed with…as for you..well sounds a bit like you had your hater aid this morning…Many people are stating thier lives and dating rituals as they know them to be…

What about you care to contribute or are you just a mad and as tripe as you sound hunh?? oh no let me guess your married and trolling the blogs…GTFOH

By Beautiful

January 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

I mean really

this is just entertainment. %5 of the time, a place to release. nothing wrong with that.

By melo

January 28, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

I mean really and u are what,single,married,divorced,looking,used,abused…what?And u cant have an opinion becoz of what?

By Rell

January 28, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

@imeanreally…so have you learned something..or did you feel the need to waste space with your post…..and who gives FLUCK about your thoughts…..

By BLOW ME IS OFFICIALLY BLOWED & THROWED

January 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

I mean really Funny….but again this is just to get through the 8-5..Nothing more nothing less….

By BLOW ME IS OFFICIALLY BLOWED & THROWED

January 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

I mean really Funny….but again this is just to get through the 8-5..Nothing more nothing less….If I want to play Dr. Phil….so d@mn be it!!

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

@SlimOne Believe it or not, that show is a snapshot of not only my life, but a lot of men!

Sometimes when you are the “live one”, ppl live through you and when you think about shutting it down, you shut down their adventure outlet and it meets resistance often times.

I have a few friends, who are married and often call me after the weekend, for a war story. Because their lives are pretty much the same each week, they live through me for that extra edge.

It has been my experience, that when a dude is married or not quite the outgoing type, he will feed off of one of his buddies, who brings excitement to his life or a dude that can put you in the middle of a good time and something different from the norm.

What I like most about the show is that Scott keeps it real and his struggle is a very real one for a lot of guys, esp. me!

It just boils down to the thrill of the hunt for most guys!

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

A lot of troll feeding today. LOL

In any case, me and the commitment phobe ex used to watch Scott Baio together. He was 38 and single and was trying to break that cycle. He and Scott were very much the same.

I thought about him this weekend watching the show. The scene where Scott Baio was in church crying because he couldn’t talk to his dad, made me think of my ex and how he can’t talk to his dad either because he also recently died. I’ll never forget how sad I felt for him when he said how lost he felt because he couldn’t talk to his dad.

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

ForRell, you silly. If you’re gonna slap me you better be man enough and slap JazzyOne as well. We’re saying the same thing. BTW, I don’t read romance novels.

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Its 230 and time for a blog fight. Someone please get it started. LOL

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

I mean really, aren’t all those categories you listed a part of something called LIFE? Not one of us says were an expert on any given topic. Yet, life experiences is why we’re on this blog.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

With baby powder from the Bandit For Real now slapping Jazzy for medicinal purposes.

A feeling from 20 yrs ago??????

By I mean really

January 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

I think I stepped on a lot of toes. C’mon people, it ain’t that serious. I was just asking a question. That should fall along the same lines of posting. If you have the be all, know all, end all or should I rephrase and say just like you have opinions and post, am I know able to pose my question as well? C’mon now be fair. Stop cussing and telling me to leave. We all grown intelligent people right?

By I mean really

January 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

I think I stepped on a lot of toes. C’mon people, it ain’t that serious. I was just asking a question. That should fall along the same lines of posting. If you have the be all, know all, end all or should I rephrase and say just like you have opinions and post, am I not able to pose my question as well? C’mon now be fair. Stop cussing and telling me to leave. We all grown intelligent people right?

By I mean really

January 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

oh no let me guess your married and trolling the blogs…GTFOH

Jazzyone it’s you’re not your

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Truth- I tried this on Friday and it backfired. Good luck in your efforts bro!

it’s you’re not your -Back off Genius, dont try to correct my broken english!! So what you did not write this for me, that shyt is just corny.

By Wise Diva

January 28, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

I am tired of the blog fights, I am tired of the name calling, I am tired of supposedly grown people not understanding the concept of debate.

It’s old. Get over yourselves, everyone won’t see things your way.

If you can’t come on to a public forum with out spewing finger vomit all over the place, maybe you should just focus on something else.

What happened to the online community that we built? Where people felt GOOD about joining in for the first time? Seriously, I would rather look at 2 posts a day if it meant they were meaningful, insightful commentary.

I think I speak for Bella too when I say this: LIGHTEN UP

By "Longtime Lurker"

January 28, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Anyone know if agwitt retired or not? Haven’t heard from him in a minute and he is missed!

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Ared my expectations are no unrealistic….just be real, unfront and don’t play BS games. If a guy that is with me wants to mess with other women…don’t cheat..let me know and we can end things. Yeah it would hurt..but I would respect you after the hurt has passed. I am not friends with a guy whom I dated and he told me he did not want to be coupled anymore. Yeah at first I hated him…but now I respect the fact that he did not play games with me and cheat on me. He was real and upfront and now we are cool as friends.

melo hence another dumb woman who stayed with a man that hit her. Just as ther is no excuse for cheating there is none for hitting your wife and as a woman you have no self-esteem to stay with a man who put his hands on you! Infidelity and abuse ar ethe two reasons I see for divorce. I think everything else can be worked out. I would be setting myself up for distruction if I stayed with a cheater…when he is not in my sight I would think he is cheating and that would drive me nuts. I mean…if he cheated before what’s to stop him form doing it again? Oh yes, love, trust and vows. Oh wait..those were in place when he cheated last time. Oh well…

For real Marget Thatcher is one of few. I mean yes woman are starting to make strides…but the ration of women to men in top positions is not quite equal as of yet.

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

I…Really, your post came across as extremely condescending and that’s why the other bloggers felt froggy and jumped. It’s all good!

Staceye I’ll jump on ForRell’s back if you kick him in the balls for slapping JazzyOne with powder. What a sting!

By DasV

January 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

she is the third element…. her ‘image’ is of a wonderful, doted on daughter… but who knows for sure. and on all fronts it appears that she is holding her own, with family, marriage, career. but the slight hiccups that shes had in the polls and her immediate take-it-to-streets politics tell me that its all a facade. and i just dont think hillary should be given credit for not leaving bill because of an indiscretion. and it annoys me that so many weigh their opinion of her based on the ‘stand by your man’ or the ‘she got her own agenda’ premises. its all for show. only option is to enjoy the show, or change theaters altogether.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Staceye - Folks can’t be upfront about EVERYTHING in their lives. Some stuff that is going to happen to you, you have no idea of how you will react and how you will handle it.

A guy can fully go into a relationship with you and fully intend to be faithful. However, it doesn’t always END UP that way. What are you going to do when the going gets tough? Sounds like you will get going.

WiseDiva - Dayum girly! I want you to name names. LMAO! I think the discussion has been quite good today. I guess it all depends on what you chose to focus on. Just a thought.

By Jazzyone

January 28, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

900 Hilarious that the person posting that correction is so not hiding..there is only one person that does this and then posts ebonically themselves….this is a blog we generally let anything go in here…LOL

By Wise Diva

January 28, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

AmazonRed, if you see goodness and light, congrats, focus on that. I am not addressing ONLY today, ok?

It is a culmination of the past few weeks. I have the pleasure of moderating the blog and I see and hear about the problems people have about the community here. Bella and I care about the blog community because it is a large part of why the blog has lasted this long. Lately, though, for whatever reason, people on here cross the line, way too much, so yeah I am going to address it AND focus on it..and as always, thanks for putting in your thoughts :)

By SlimOne

January 28, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

LL The whole ‘living through a friends life’ deal happens with chicks too. I’m sure you all hear all the time of girls complaining about a friend getting ghost after she gets a man, not participating with ‘the girls’ as much as before. I do appreciate Scott keeping it real and I’m glad he is seeking some sort of assistance (Daddy-to-be class) to help him gain some insight to soon to be newly husgand/father role.

ARed I couldn’t imagine going through something like that and not having my mom to talk and share it with. I don’t have any kids or have been married yet, So i just pray that she’ll still be around when those things come to pass IF they ever do.

Blog Men w/kids What were you all initial feelings upon finding out you were going to be a parent? Fears, hesitation, happiness, etc. We mostly hear about the women’s feeling due to us being a more vocal species so it would interesting to hear some of yalls POV on it

By melo

January 28, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Staceye, one time George had a beer problem and i think he would assault her in his drunken stupor. I belive they worked on it, he became prez of the united states and she first lady.And she busy promoting child literacy all over the world.Aint that cool.Lesson in that is:when u do ur vows, u need to work thru ur problems, cant just give up becoz lyfe is about having problems and solving them and giving the other cheek.Thats what Jesus did for us all, u can do the same in ur marriage, at least, and save ur kids,marriage and entire family from mayhem and suffering.I am sure u urself make mistakes too and would want other pple to forgive u.

By pisces08

January 28, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

@I mean Really. We are the “be all to end all…” you didn’t know?

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Sexyleggs you are so crazy! LOL

ARed What are you going to do when the going gets tough? Sounds like you will get going if that guy cheats on me or hits me…you d@mn skippy I am out! Like I said..other things can be worked through. Life is too short to spend it with a fake person! Some people do not like me because I am real and upfront about my intentions and my actions and I do NOT apologize for them. They can call me many things..but unreal is not one! I speak my mind and feelings regardless what people think of them or me. At least I can feel good that I was me. I did not BS nor do I like BS’ed…respect me and I will respect you!

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

WiseDiva - You are a doodyhead. Take that! (In the interest of keeping things light).

P.S. Good luck on trying to change the attitude of grown people. You might as well just start banning the offenders.

By SlimOne

January 28, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Jazzy You might want to get your face checked out immediately. For Real did say he used Baby Powder Bandit Powder and we all know where that comes from…..Ewwwwww a smelly cootie! arrggghhhh!

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Lately, though, for whatever reason, people on here cross the line, way too much, so yeah I am going to address it AND focus on it.. OOOoouuhhh! Y’all in trouble!!! I try to keep it light in ‘08 no low blows but I cant say the same for Truth that guy is just nutz.

… thats how you throw someone under the bus LoL

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

SlimOne - I’m so with you on needing my mom around for advice, and just shooting the breeze on life. I often pray that my parents will be around when it’s time for me to become a wife and mother.

Staceye - As stated before, good luck. I hope that attitude works out well for you.

By pisces08

January 28, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

@Wise Diva. uh, whose moderating at 8am? We’ll be accountable and clean up our act, if you and Bella can moderate the minor “gliches”. Afterall, we are all “Blog Friends”.

By Why???

January 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Monny Dearest umm I mean Wise Diva why are you on here telling folks what to say?? People have the right to post what they feel just like the regulars who come on here everyday talking all that ish, fighting back and forth and you don’t get on here and say anything but when an outsider come on here and post something you want to regulate things. Ever thought that maybe that’s why no outsiders blog here because of that same reason??? JAT

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

900 I’m the opposite of WD. These grown up topics are much more amusing after a good blog fight. LOL Throw me under the bus. Its hilarious to get people fired up. That civilized convo is for politicians and high school debate teams. Don your vests and lets get at it. LMAO

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

I had to laugh at you 900K. I knew you were loyal to no one! That was funny.

WiseDiva, as I stated Friday, I’ll try to put my best foot forward. Not that I had blog fights, but the sexual content can be diluted (I guess)!

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Melo yet another wman who had a plan. She said…”this azz is going to be president soon…I had better stay with him so I can first lady”! If he was everyday Joe…who’s to say she would have stayed! LOL It’s gotta be something in it for me! if not…dueces!

ARED it protects me. I do not want to be one of thses females that floats around a on a cloud in la-la land because of ‘love”. It’s so over-rated. They asked a question on the radio the other day…would you marry for money? I’m not golddigger because I believe in taking care of me so I owe no man nothing. But if there is a business arrangement in it..by all means….

By melo

January 28, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Fears, hesitation, happiness, etc all that Slimone but once u accept the situation the problem if there is one at all, is half solved.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Staceye - Protects you from what? Getting hurt? I suspect you’ve gotten hurt whether you stayed with someone or not. No excuse for a man putting his hands on you or cheating on you, I agree on that. Our approaches are just different. I guess as long as you’re willing to work out the other things, I guess you’ll be OKAY! I was just getting an all or nothing attitude from you. I don’t know any relationship, be it romantic or platonic, that works that way.

By DasV

January 28, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

LOLROTF@nine huuuunnndred throwin TRUTH under the bus. thats funny.

Truth i am wit you… don a vest and lets get ready to ruuummm-ble! LOL i think that what Wdiva would have us do… regulate the blog-fights, with specific times, and announced contenders. some ppl just not cool with the element of surprise, and not knowing when or who gonna break out.. LOL

but if there is a business arrangement in it, by all means - - uh, so you cool wit whorin too, huh??!

By Wise Diva

January 28, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Why, sweetie, you are so cute to go incognito. Fine, I’ll play along, there is a list of rules that the AJC has, commenter guidelines. Check them out if you guys haven’t already. So, in a way, people really can’t post whatever they want, ok? There are guidelines in place and if we continue on the slippery slope of explicit talk, profanity, personal attacks, the blog will downgrade into something unpleasant to read. So that is why I address it, and it is not the first time I have had to do so.

I am not asking everyone to go POLLYANNA on me, no. I have debated and snapped on people countless times, but I want us to remember that we (Bella and I) really don’t want to create a hostile blog environment. It’s just not what we are about.

By melo

January 28, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

I had better stay with him so I can first lady”! If he was everyday Joe I cannot compete with u on ur bagfull of consiracy theories.

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Ared I wasn’t always this way…so now that I am…I am feeling better and happier. I just expect honesty and nothing less form a guy. If that is too much then I guess I wll be alone because I demand respect and I give it in return.

By SlimOne

January 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

melo How did you dealwith those feelings and when did they change IF they ever have? (after the baby, closer to the delivery, never etc) Also, do these feelings have anything to do witht the situation with the soon to be childs mother??? (whether it was a cut buddy, long term relationship, short courtship, wife, etc)

By Tazzee

January 28, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Wise Diva you can always be like Bella and just post your topic each morning and bounce. Seriously, don’t let it get your blood pressure up…just post the topic and let the inmates run the prison.

By Willie Dynamite

January 28, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

Afternoon All,

Similac can someone please catch me up.

On Topic- If this is still the real topic. I am 100% just like my Father. However I am the upgraded version. Watching what my pops and moms went thru made me who I am to an extent. My community, social outlook, and individual thoughts made me who I am wholly. My folks gave me a roadmap and guidelines. It was up to me to stick to it or deviate how I saw fit.

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

As much as I like to go w/Truth/DasV and don the vest, I understand where WD is coming from. Although there are regulars here, newbies may be afraid to post for fear of being cussed out. I believe the blog wasn’t meant to become home to just the regulars. Pretty sure The AJC would like the property value of blogsville to continue increasing with new blood coming on.

Yet, a blog fight now and then is refreshing in a warped kinda way!

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

900 I have you scheduled for a blog war Wednesday at 3pm. Please wear the proper gear as I will launch an all out offensive. LOL Nothing is out of bounds as you know. Afterwards we can go to Houston’s and have drinks. LOL Also, if you have any sensitive info I can use against you feel free to pass it on. I loves cutting deep.

WD lets set up rules similar to the Geneva Convention. Rules of war kinda thing. LOL

Is that better? Das is instigating again. If I didn’t love you so much I’d “set it off” right now. LOL

You can’t hide from pain. The best you can do is expose yourself to it and take away its power.

By Beautiful

January 28, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Tazzee lmfao!

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Staceye - Fellow Sag, I also expect honesty and nothing else in return. You can still demand respect and be willing to listen and work thru the mistakes your partner makes.

I don’t see any incentive for someone who makes a mistake (like cheating) to be honest with you. If they know that you are going to leave them, I could see them taking something like that to the grave.

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Its hilarious to get people fired up. That civilized convo is for politicians and high school debate teams. Truth I am with you on that homie! Of course I am just as guilty of this as you so peace-pipe extended… However my good people with all the recent recycled-blog complaints by the “other one” I will say that we can tone it down for Diva, but be warned my good lady when The Other One starts a post off in morn there is sure to be sparks flying by afternoon.

In other words Bella’s topics leave some wanting to knock somebodie the *@ck out!

DasV AKA DasKing only in America! I see you’re gettin into blog fight PR.

Leggs - I can be very loyal BTW.

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

900 I have you scheduled for a blog war Wednesday at 3pm. Please wear the proper gear as I will launch an all out offensive. LOL Nothing is out of bounds as you know. Afterwards we can go to Houston’s and have drinks. LOL Also, if you have any sensitive info I can use against you feel free to pass it on. I loves cutting deep.

WD lets set up rules similar to the Geneva Convention. Rules of war kinda thing. LOL

Is that better? Das is instigating again. If I didn’t love you so much I’d “set it off” right now. LOL

You can’t hide from pain. The best you can do is expose yourself to it and take away its power.

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

900 I have you scheduled for a blog war Wednesday at 3pm. Please wear the proper gear as I will launch an all out offensive. LOL Nothing is out of bounds as you know. Afterwards we can go to Houston’s and have drinks. LOL Also, if you have any sensitive info I can use against you feel free to pass it on. I loves cutting deep.

WD lets set up rules similar to the Geneva Convention. Rules of war kinda thing. LOL

Is that better? Das is instigating again. If I didn’t love you so much I’d “set it off” right now. LOL

You can’t hide from pain. The best you can do is expose yourself to it and take away its power.

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

900 I have you scheduled for a blog war Wednesday at 3pm. Please wear the proper gear as I will launch an all out offensive. LOL Nothing is out of bounds as you know. Afterwards we can go to Houston’s and have drinks. LOL Also, if you have any sensitive info I can use against you feel free to pass it on. I loves cutting deep.

WD lets set up rules similar to the Geneva Convention. Rules of war kinda thing. LOL

Is that better? Das is instigating again. If I didn’t love you so much I’d “set it off” right now. LOL

You can’t hide from pain. The best you can do is expose yourself to it and take away its power.

By AmazonRed

January 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

SexyLeggs - While I see your point, what are new posters so afraid of? Words on a screen?

I haven’t been on here that long, but I certainly didn’t let the “regulars” deter me from posting. I had an opinion and could stand on it…it really wasn’t a big deal if folks didn’t agree.

The anonymous trolls spew more ignorance than most of the regulars, and they do it on purpose to incite people. They aren’t welcome additions to the blog either.

By Beautiful

January 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

You can’t hide from pain. The best you can do is expose yourself to it and take away its power. imma have 2 save and use this. thx!

By Kym-Proud Steeler Nation Member since 1994

January 28, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Oh and to those list of cheating politicians you may want to add mayor Kwame to the list..he was on the taxpayers of Detroit’s dime when he was doing the do.

14,000 text messages-Couldn’t he have just call

By BLOW ME IS OFFICIALLY BLOWED & THROWED

January 28, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

TRUTH Step away from the post button….geez us!!! goodness!

By BLOW ME IS OFFICIALLY BLOWED & THROWED

January 28, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

TRUTH Step away from the post button….geez us!!! goodness!

By melo

January 28, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

these feelings have anything to do with the situation with the soon to be childs mother??? If the baby is with a woman u had no long term interests in, but dipped anyway, u hate them both(probably).U attitude towards the child may change depending on who u talk to and how they communicate and influence u.Child support wars etc stem from that very fact.If the baby is with ur chosen one,u luv them both.Do i speak from exp, yes.And what did i do with the ist..abortion.

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

900K, I was only trying to start something w/you. Thought you’d probably come back at me saying I don’t know nothing about you why would I speak on your loyalty. It didn’t work. We are all loyal to some degree to someone.

Dang, I’m going to miss the blog war @3 this coming Wednesday…Phooey!

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

OOOps, I hit the button to many times.

Ared sounds like your giving a person an opportunity to actually be a human and make mistakes.

Wait a minute. Did Tazz just go off? LOL

By SlimOne

January 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

History of Black History

What we now call Black History Month was originated in 1926 by Carter Godwin Woodson as Negro History Week. The month of February was selected in deference to Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln who were both born in that month.

The son of a slave, Carter G. Woodson was born in New Canton, Virginia on December 19, 1875. He began high school at the age of 20 and then proceeded to study at Berea College, the University of Chicago, the Sorbonne, and Harvard University, where he earned a Ph.D. in 1912.

Carter G. Woodson founded the Association for the Study of Negro Life and History in 1915 to train Black historians and to collect, preserve, and publish documents on Black life and Black people. He also founded the Journal of Negro History (1916), Associated Publishers (1922), and the Negro Bulletin (1937). Woodson spent his life working to educate all people about the vast contributions made by Black men and women throughout history. Mr. Woodson died on April 3, 1950 and Black History Month is his legacy. Carter G. Woodson, however, would be sad to know that out of all the hundreds of Black men and women who produced so many substantial inventions (from the development of crop rotation, the traffic light, the mail box, gas mask, fountain pen, typewriter, telegraph, golf tee, automatic gear shift, commode toilet—- to the method of dry cleaning clothes, the electric lamp, and the automatic car coupler and air brake for the railroad) benefiting this country, only four Black inventors have been inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame in Akron, Ohio.

During the last four years, the Patent and Trademark Office has been working closely with the National Inventors Hall of Fame Foundation to rectify this situation and honor the true story of Black History.

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

ARED I believe all dirt has a way of coming out. I pay attention to little details like a detective. I listen everything a man says…sometimes he forgets he said it or he trips up and says something that he doesn’t think I will figure things out! It happens all the time. My mami likes to call me CSI. Anything and everything is a clue. I have asked the same question 5 times and in a different way to a guy..if he is doing dirty..that is usually where he trips up. But I do not let on that I know. I play it cool until I get a lot of ammo and bumrush him with it! Then he is rendered to that stuck on stupid stage where he can not defend himself. Then I let him have it. But trust all revenge is carefully thought out! LOL This is where my acting abilities come in…

By J-PDX

January 28, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

I’ve been lurking a long time. I’ve seen good things with this blog and bad. I happen to agree with WD and Bella here. I remember school days when the teacher was away and the substitute let us do whatever we wanted and most of the time, it wasn’t good. And to bring it back to topic, here we are debating what our parents did for us (good and bad) and it would appear that we fail to realize what effect our childhoods have had on us. Which is the point. So some things I learned today include: 1) People tend to write more explicitly and bluntly than they would say to somebody face to face in “real” life. And if they do actually talk this way to people, I often wonder how healthy people are. 2) A Code of ethics and conduct are mandatory in societies whether online or otherwise. Our parents influenced us in this area both good and bad. And it those traits that we bring to bear in our relationships. I applaud WD and Bella for attempting to bring some decorum and class since we generally speaking apparently don’t realize how our parents affected us in an online blog.

3) Lastly, as a reflective thought for the group, I will never post again because I sense trash being talked and vindicitiveness toward each other over specific issues rather working toward an overarching goal. That goal being healthy relationships for all of us. I realize there is a fine line but I’m out on that note….

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

ARed, I feel the same way. These are words on a screen from people I don’t know. That’s why I’m not going to spar. Some don’t feel that way.

By DasV

January 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

LOLROTF @ theTRUTH settin up a blog-fight for wednesday, talkin bout we need some rules of engagement. thats why yous family. and yea i do believe *Tazz went off. LOL.

and nine huuuundred yous funny with that DAS KING mess.

sexyLeggs did you just type phooey?? :) and dont worry you know imma pull up a chair with a bowl of popcone and watch the fight … im also liable to go beyond instigatin and jump up in that fray. ill let you know what you miss.

By Beautiful

January 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Truthbaby just an fyi that your mac-n-cheese is still a hit! my baby eats all of his first and then begs for more. i tell him that its not the only thing on his plate. he hurries through the main course and other side and says really loud DONE!. so funny.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Okay lets not get carried away with there is no reason to hit a chick. My life is just as important as hers. If she doesn’t think so about mines, I will think the same about hers.

By For Real

January 28, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

For Real now tying Sexyleggs and 2E’s together for a Rob Base comeback video shoot.

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

dammit…….

DasV, is bullshyt the only thing you know? Really…..

By melo

January 28, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

WD pple are going to be who they want to be on the blog.If u dont like the posts, delete them.Its as simple as that.They call u moderator, dont they?If u post an opinion here, expect a counter opinion.If u too weak minded/spineless to post,lurk.Its as simple as abc….

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Staceye if you put as much effort in to making a relationship work as you do uncovering dirt you’d probably be singing a different tune in this spot.

Sorry Blow my fingers got light. It wont happen again.

Sexy announcing them seems to take the thrill out of them. 900 just pass that peace pipe one more time. LOL

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

DasV, you keep me posted. I guess old folk say phooey and I’m not Old!!! (LOL)

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

SexyLegggs - with a name like that it will be mighty hard for me to get into a fight with you. Sorry, if you want beef you may need to change your name to…

Staceye - sometimes he forgets he said it or he trips up and says something that he doesn’t think I will figure things out! It happens all the time. My mami likes to call me CSI. Anything and everything is a clue. I have asked the same question 5 times and in a different way to a guy.. -Stop right there baygirl. All these questions, for what? How about you are intentionally trying to mess things up? Subconciously folks do not believe that something will work out for them so they will do things to ruin the situation and it sounds a lil-like what I’ve read from you. Anyway you need a real Mans-man! One who will not put up with all your dam ques? I’ve often told women in the past “Look you only got 3 questions with me today and you’ve used them all up” or “What you writin a book?” or my old fav “Dont phyco-anylize me woman!!!”

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Yes, no uumpphff in announcing it. Nothing like being cold cocked from the left…

By Cemeeli

January 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

WillieD you call?…i’m catching up too darlin’…& keepin’ it light

• You know what’s up…the same ole different day. Though Wise is regulating the not so blog-friendly comments that come through the blog oh so often…u know…a good address to watch what cha post/say …

• 900K put Mista on a bus with no bus pass or something.

• DasV is acting as Dana Owen’s today.

• Sexyleggs is trying to figure out if she should wear her oxyblood blouse tomorrow OR put her foot on 900K.

• Slim got loose from under a chokehole by the BabyPowderBandit so she could post blk history.

• Staceye is always cool. She’s just reinerating what she has always stood strong about. Mrs. Millie.

• Some regulars are lurking or mia… new bloggers/lurkers have posted and co-signed w/Wise.

…a different tone today…i think everyone’s cool nonetheless…

By melo

January 28, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

if you put as much effort in to making a relationship work as you do uncovering dirt you’d probably be singing a different tune in this spot ^cosign Truth

By Staceye

January 28, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

900 I don’t ask the questions in one day. I spread them out throughout weeks/months…not to mention I just observe. It’s fun to watch them spin their little webs of deceit! The old me spent to much time in happy la-la land and not paying attention. But after a few ordeals…now I am Ms. Attentive! I’m like Big Brother…I am watching you!

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Once again, you’re funny Cemeeli. I just might wear that blouse tomorrow. Great catchup!

I’ll keep my name if it helps me dodge 900K (LOL).

By DasV

January 28, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

whoa. where the h3ll did that come from??! looks like we’s gonna have a blog-fight after all

reference the post that warrants that comment. and i will be happy to clarify.

bullshyt - -> thats harsh.

By I mean really

January 28, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

the 2:44 post correcting Jazzyone’s english/grammar was not me, the original “I mean really.” Not that it’s a biggie but I say if you agree get your own moniker and join sides. Two monikers is always better than 10 folks posting under one. That way, blog bullets are aimed at more than one person.

By Why???

January 28, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Why Wishy Wisy…calling bloggers out is so um NON Wise….

By 900K aka Mr 2008

January 28, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Off Topic I stopped by Fox Grill ystdy to catch some of the BBall games, man this town just aint the same to me… perhaps its just me I was not feelin it.

Truth I see you’ve been wantin to get at me for a minute! With all those dam posts…LoL Like I said peace pipe circ around the room “I’m a peaceful Brotha” but dont push me! Besides with all the money DasKing been stealin from you on your other fights you may need to check into that 1st.

CemeelI what you talkin bout? Put her foot on me? I dont have a thing for feet my dear, just the rest of the leg & thigh &… WHEW!!! Tuff practice for em 2nite. Now that we know what we can do, its time to set serious expectations and achieve greatness.

ONE

By 2CPTG©

January 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

all of them that refer to blog fights, and bullshyt like that……yeah, I fell victim, but I don’t condone, nor instigate them…..

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Good night everyone!

By Wise Diva

January 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

yeah, I know “why”, I should just let it go, because that is what you would do? How long have you moderated an AJC forum?

At any rate, you definitely don’t have to agree with what I do, but if you have issues with it, we can discuss it more, please email me: wise.diva@gmail.com.

Or feel free to contact the AJC editors and voice your complaints too :)

By DasV

January 28, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

we all have our vices… i dont say nothing to bout yours… can you leave me to mines?? just a thought

By The Truth

January 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Nah 900 I have no beef with you. i’m adhereing to the new rules and firing only when fired upon. LOL

Beautiful glad I could help. LOL

By Cemeeli

January 28, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

All is well …be easy and enjoy your evening blogger.

By Wise Diva

January 28, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

J-PDX, thanks for your comments

Melo, deleting comments all day, would that really solve anything? The whole point of my comments today was to address concerns that me, Bella, and MANY MANY readers feel.

I have a feeling the people who know they are the main contributers to the unnecessary drama can self-regulate, from this point on.

I can only put it out there and hope that people see where I am coming from.

and “why”, I know you want to take a verbal jab at me, I can just sense these kinds of things, LOL. It’s adorably funny to see you exercise restraint. Good job

By SexyLeggs

January 28, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

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