By Robert

July 25, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

I purchase a variety of things….. notebook paper, pencils, pens, composition notebooks, and a lot of supplies for my labs (I teach science). My total is around $500 and that is before school even starts. I have to buy these things because either the school will not purchase them or I have to go through so much BS (paperwork, etc.) that I resign myself to just buying them myself.

For all of the people in the corporate world that seem to “hate” teachers (jealous due to percieved summer off, think it is an easy job, etc.), when was the last time that you dropped $500 out of your pocket to pay for supplies at your job?

By Steph

July 25, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

In my first four months of teaching, I spent $1800. I continue to spend around $1000 a year, mostly for books, food supplies for activities, and presents for Christmas and birthday.

By Mellllll2

July 25, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

People don’t “hate� teachers and it seems to be perceived they do. We just feel there are a lot bad ones. Unfortunately, the bad ones stand out more (just like bad cops, bad politicians, etc - there has to be good ones.We applaud the good one’s.

No job is easy. Every career has it’s pros and cons. But you don’t have it worse than everybody else. Every job has it’s “cons”.

By TN

July 25, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

I am lucky enough to work in a district that has a large science budget, so science supplies are usually easy to come by, and what we don’t have we can easily order. However, I usually see myself dipping into my pockets to cover consumables: paper, pens, pencils, ink cartridges, general classroom supplies or lab supplies that will take too long to order. Generally I spend in the $300-$400 range over 2 semesters. My wife, on the other hand, teaches science in a nearby district and does not have any money for supplies. Everything she buys comes out of pocket. She sends home a list of things she would “like” to have if the parents can supply them, and if not, the credit card is good to us. The upside is that wonderful $250 tax break we get….I don’t like to look a gift horse in the mouth, but for her, $250 is NOTHING to spend in the first few months of school. Any ideas if they plan on upping this $250 to $500/teacher per year?

By Sam

July 25, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

I’ve spent about $150 so far in advance of the school year. It usually adds up to about $400-500 by the time school is out. But that just seems the way it has always been—I just shrug my shoulders and say I have to do what it takes to get the job done.

By WW

July 25, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

I’ve bought workbooks, cleaner, file folders, pencils, diskettes, CDRs, and software. Last year, I purchased professional texts for my high school drafting class that ranged in price from $250 (Architectural Graphic Standards) to as low as $45 (AutoCAD 2005). I also purchase printer cartridges because my allotment runs short every year and we print many drawings for the community and school board; posters for our athletic department; signs for civic groups; and promotional materials for school and community groups. Once in a blue moon we get a small donation but mostly I make up our shortfall.

You need things when you need them and plowing through all the forms, regulations, red tape, and chains of command takes too much time. The little tax break helps with about half of what I spend but I guess I’d continue to purchase what we need even without it. I have for 31 years, especially when they cut my instructional budget by 20%.

If I didn’t care, I’d just keep my money.

By MamaS

July 25, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

Our school budget for art supplies is 24 cents per student. I buy crayons, markers, copier paper, tissue paper, construction paper, and ink cartridges for my computer (we are issued two per year). I will also pay the admissions fees and field trip fees for any students who can’t afford to go to our one field trip of the year. Sometimes it is just $4 per student, but there are families that don’t have that. If I pay for one student in each class, I will spend about $200 just for that.

By Lisa Z

July 25, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

In 2004, I spent $2500 on supplies for my classroom and students. This will be my seventh year in the classroom and I spend about that much each year.

The majority of my purchases each year are either professional books, books to supplement my classroom library, and materials/resources to supplement the curriculum.

I also buy extra crayons, pencils, paper, folders, etc. since my school is in a very low income area.

By Regina Neequaye

July 25, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

Just want to let you know that office depot has an excellent program where you can contribute 5% of your bill to the school of your choice. I order a lot of supplies at my job and I always designate my daughter’s school to received the 5%.

Also, there is also an advantage program where you get office depot money for every purchase. For example if you purchase 200 -299 worth of merhandise in a quarter you recieve 20.00. The amount goes up the more use spend. For me or someone designated to order supplies it ends up being a lot of money. I also give the card to my daughter’s teacher for classroom supplies.

By Abacus

July 25, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

I’m a middle school science teacher. I spend $500 to $700 a year. Our district allows us $50 per year for supplies. As for having the summer off - I’ve had 10 days off this summer because I attended classes to maintain my certification. These classes were at MY expense - corporate America generally pays for the training of their employees, school districts don’t.

By teach1

July 25, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

Last year was my first year teaching at an elementary school. I refinanced my mortgage and spent much of the money I took out on school materials. I teach special education, so I need a lot of alternative teaching materials for different learners. I probably spent $5000 at least. Obviously, I will not have to spend that much ever again - I hope! But for yearly supplies, I’d say at least another $500 or more on basic-need materials. I was just at the teacher store buying paper and pencils actually! There were already plenty of teachers there too. Parents, please understand that we don’t receive very much from the school to buy your kids supplies. Kids go through materials like wildfire. I want to be able to teach children in the wonderful new ways that research has shown to be the most effective, differential learning, but teachers don’t make enough to pay for all the materials required for this. Often I also have to pay for food for kids to have because parents don’t send in any healthy snacks, nor feed their kids breakfast. And anyone who’s ever been around a hungry 8 year knows that there is no learning until they eat something! The most horrifying moment of my teaching experience was my very first day when I asked where the supply closet was and was told that I needed to provide all the materials such as pencils, paper, notebooks, writing journals, even paper to use for making copies of tests. Not to mention flash cards, materials for science experiments, any sort of crafts, or really anything that didn’t include the very basic textbooks (which often I didn’t have enough of, nor did I have enough of the workbooks that are supposed to come with it). There are all sorts of wonderful books about students needing to learn through hands-on activities, but the schools don’t pay for those activities. I only received $50 from the PTA and $150 from the county (in November) to pay for any student supplies and materials. New books and workbooks didn’t come in until April. The parents at my school didn’t have the money to buy the materials on my beginning of school list for their children (pencils, notebooks, and paper). That’s not to mention the tissues, bandaids, papertowels, and other general living type supplies that the kids need through the day. The schools don’t provide those either. I even have to buy soap for the sink! And you don’t want kids who aren’t washing their hands, especially during the “cold season”. I have a fellow teacher who’s taught for only 5 years, and she’s already decided she’s not spending anymore of her money on student supplies. If her kids don’t have it, then too bad. It is really sad to see teachers so overburdened financially that they finally get burned out. When your property tax increases, trust me, I don’t see the result in supplies for my students. Nor have I had a salary increase in the last two years, despite the governor approving one - my county said we are already too highly paid in an email sent to us after school ended!

By FunkyGee

July 25, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

Its amazing to me that teachers have to come out of pocket for so much $ when the amount of money the governement pours into our schools is about the gross national product of Europe. When will we pull our heads out of the sand and reform this ridiculous system we have in place?

By David

July 25, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

You teachers are talking as if we (the public)are not paying enough. The Atlanta school system allocates in the neighborhood of $13k a year per student … are you kidding me. It is your union that allows the schools run like a big cluster*. Through our taxes due you realize how much a homeowner spends per year on school supplies? As for the teacher who is complaining about Xmas & B-day gifts, does she think our gifts given in our jobs are paid through some secret fund? I would be upset if my taxes were paying for celebrations such as that. Let the parents who actually have children in that school splurge for that waste.

By SuzyK

July 25, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

David, GA does NOT have teachers’ unions! They are ILLEGAL in the state of GA.

By jennifer

July 25, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

I am no longer in the classroom but before moving to Atlanta I was a teacher aide in an ECE class in Illinois. The teacher spent a great deal of her own money on supplies because the school could not afford to accommodate the students and most of the parents couldn’t afford the supplies either.

Items that a lot of people feel as ‘small’ like paper, pens, pencils, colored pencils, etc. add up to those families who do not have the money necessary to purchase them. Most likely paper, pens, and pencils will have to be replinished at some point throughout the year, too.

It is disturbing to me that we live in such a rich country but our educational system is suffering so badly. Education is the key to people rising up out of their poverty-stricken neighorhoods to go to college and become productive citizens. Sadly, there are a number of people who feel they should not even contribute at all if they do not have children (i.e. property taxes) but they seem to fail to realize that people would rather live in an educated country than one that is not. It’s sad they do not see the connection. They only see it as someone stealing their money (mainly they see the poor are ‘taking’ their money).

I feel very lucky that my children have teachers who spend out of their own pockets to ensure the children have the tools necessary to learn. I honestly cannot thank teachers enough for what they do. A simple “thank you” just does not seem to be enough.

And to Regina, I started working for a software company in December and I signed us up for the Office Depot 5% back to schools program. It is a wonderful program and I am proud we are helping out.

Keep up the great work, teachers, you are much appreciated!

By jennifer

July 25, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

In 2004 the spending per pupil for APS was $9,422. You can see the breakdown of this by going to:

www.atlanta.k12.ga.us/insideaps/ superintendent/pdfs/atlantaisd_final.pdf

The breakdown of that $9,422 goes to many different areas than just the ‘one’ student it’s being spent on. It’s not like the students are handed a check for $9,422 that allows them to purchase the supplies necessary for the school year.

By mjd1

July 25, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

To Mellllll2: “People don’t ‘hate’ teachers and it seems to be perceived they do.” If people done’t “hate” teachers, they sure have become adept at putting on a good show of “hating” them. Further, your statement, “We just feel there are a lot [of] bad ones,” indicates to me either a very negative feeling toward educators or a very poor perception of how competent and dedicated the huge majority of teachers really are. Sure, there are a few poor teachers, but the numbers are miniscule compared to the number of poor administrative assistants, secretaries, accounting clerks, billing clerks, controllers, receptionists, telephone operators, order clerks, lawyers, law clerks, legal assistants, doctors, medical assistants, computer gurus, computer trainers, benefits personnel, human resource personnel, public relations personnel, hospital administrators, etc. I’ve encountered in over 30 years in corporate America.

While there may be “cons” associated with any job, the question was about the amount of money teachers spend out of pocket on supplies. This is after all a forum devoted to education. If a teacher answers truthfully, he/she is not complaining; he/she is being honest.

Personally, I think it is an absolute disgrace that teachers have to spend their money on consumable supplies that should be furnished by the school system or parents. When I taught full-time, I bought supplies even when I couldn’t pay my electric bill in order to be able to do my job. I even bought paper so I could run my own copies after the Monday morning I arrived at school with a set of class activies to be copied (having spent the entire weekend preparing lessons and visiting a teacher supply store) only to face a sign that the school was out of paper and the budget would not allow them to buy more for two weeks. Such stories are legend in the world of educators, and such “grievances” are not insignificant “cons.” No other profession or job in the corporate world could get away with demanding a perfect job and holding its employees “accountable” for results while failing to furnish the minimal tools necessary to get the job done. Pure and simple, if it’s unacceptable in the business world, it’s unacceptable in the education world. I even had to take my own pencil sharpener to school, because pencils break and most of the sharpeners in the classrooms don’t work. I also had to take my own 3-hole puncher so the students could insert their handouts in their notebooks, because the schools didn’t furnish these, and students, being children, do risk losing whatever is not nailed down. I wonder when was the last time a secretary had to furnish her own pencil sharpener or 3-hole punch.

By Jake

July 25, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

You teachers might take into consideration that there is a difference between materials the school doesn’t provide, current special education materials, textbooks, lab materials, etc. and supplies the parents don’t provide, pencils et al. In many cases your kind acts actually make you enabling codependents for all the poor parents’ alcohol, drug, and lottery ticket purchases. Providing school supplies for parents that won’t doesn’t better society, it encourages and supports the poor parenting you otherwise lament.

By David

July 25, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this

1) Just because Georgia does not have unions and because Georgia School systems cannot run a lemonade stand does not mean the taxpayers should throw more money at the problem. 2) To all of you speaking of spending hundreds at Office Depot to save 5% … Have you ever heard of the dollar store? Have the parent’s ever heard of it. 3) How about fighting for vouchers or more charter schools where the individual schools have to perform or lose sudents and teachers to the ones that do perform.

By jennifer

July 25, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, I forgot that it’s the fault of the poor parents because they’re poor because they drink, do other drugs, and purchase lottery tickets. Now that is a serious misconception people have of the poor. That is the exact attitude I was talking about when I stated earlier that people feel their money is being taken by ‘the poor’ in order to better educate them.

It couldn’t be they are poor because they lack education, lost a job, or are otherwise just facing difficult times.

Wake up and smell the Starbucks.

And, even if teachers help a student by purchasing products, why should the student be the one to suffer because their parent(s) either aren’t able to purchase or don’t purchase the necessary supplies? No good teacher would ever let a student go without if they can help in any way. Even if you think it’s only benefiting the parents by allowing them to get out of their parental duties. That is just ridiculous.

By jennifer

July 25, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

Hey, David, why don’t you educate yourself as to what the 5% back to schools really is. Eh?

By Bobby

July 25, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

My goodness…..at an average cost of nearly $8000 a year why would any teacher have to buy supplies!!!!!!!!!

Why in the world is it costing public schools $8000 a year?

We have a small homeschool program in my neighborhood. 18 children in all. Two teachers are hired at a cost of $35000 each. $70,000 per year total. Supplies including books cost $75 per student per year. Mortage payment and insurance totals another $633 a year. Total cost per student for one of the best educations in the world….$5000 per student per year. Teachers student ration 1-9.

By jennifer

July 25, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

1) You were the one, David, who said, “It is your union that allows the schools run like a big cluster*” and when it’s brought to your attention that GA schools do not have a union you in turn brand all of the schools in GA as being incompetantly run. 2) Again, educate yourself as to what the 5% back to schools really is 3) Why would I fight for vouchers when they a) increase costs, by requiring taxpayers to fund two school systems, one public and one private. b) participating private schools may limit enrollment, and in many cases may maintain exclusive admissions policies and charge tuition and fees far above the amount provided by the voucher.

There is a lot of information available for arguing against vouchers. I have never supported them and I do not intend to. They are not the ‘savior’ they have been made out to be.

By Lisa M

July 25, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

The only “supplies” a student needs is (in the upper grades, say 3rd grade and up) a Math book, Science book, History book, English book, etc. Most all books can last 3 years. Most all daily lessons can be pulled free from websites on the internet, the Public Lib. can provide reading material,

To me it should cost very little to provide a truly great education.

By David

July 25, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

I understand that individuals can direct the 5% to a chosen school. But as an individual I won’t spend 40% more to get 5% to a school that will waste it. Jennifer educate yourself on that math. What good is it if it goes to the schools if the schools can’t administer it. That is the problem. You cannot convince me or many that the money is not there. It is the administration. You all are saying you buy it yourself because you can’t bother with the red tape. The system probably spends more on the paper it takes to request paper than the cost of the paper being requested.

By Reese

July 25, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

Sorry Jennifer…but there are Professional Teachers Organizations that Teachers belong to that lobby on their behalf. Is this a Union? I would say so.

Professional Association of Gerogia Educators and Georgia Association of Educators.

Members pay dues, elect officers, lobby for higher pay and better benefits…..yep, this is a Union.

By jennifer

July 25, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

I won’t spend 40% more, either. But, each time supplies are purchased it all adds up for the school designated to receive the money.

By Dan

July 25, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this

I have an idea we will have a sneakers for supplies drive.
First of all any child wearing nikes with a retail price of over $50 is not allowed to recieve any free supplies. But they can trade them in for a pair of canvas keds and use the balance for supplies. It would teach many valuable lessons, prioritizing purchases, economics, capitalism. It would probably average $50 per student and eliminate the need for teachers to kick in. You could even expand it to cover those $75 michael vick and shaq jerseys

By Abacus

July 25, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

Professional organizations and unions are two VERY different things. I am a member of PAGE (GAE is too expensive) solely for the insurance. The money both organizations spend on lobbying does very little good. It’s a good thing I love the kids I teach because some days those so-called “real” jobs look pretty darn good.

By mjd1

July 25, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

Reese: You need to read up on the difference between unions and lobbying associations. The Professional Association of Gerogia Educators and Georgia Association of Educators are professional associations, not unions. It is true they “lobby” for teachers, but in Georgia, they cannot and do not function as unions, which are very different from lobbying organizations.

David and Bobby: Since you have become such “experts” on administering school systems and how efficient home schools are, why don’t you run for your local school board, or better yet, go to school to qualify to be a public school administrator or teacher and “fix” everything that you perceive to be inefficient about the way public schools are run. Bobby, how many of your 18 students are bussed, who fixes their lunches, who supplies their Kleenex, bandaids, toilet paper and soap, who cleans up after them, who pays for maintenance on your building or provides HVAC specialists to fix the heating and air conditioning when these fail, who fixes the electrical system, who sets up the computer system and fixes this when it fails, who does all the paperwork associated with running the home school and submits it to the proper agencies so students will receive state credit for their work, who furnishes the students with paper and pencil when they forget theirs, how many subject books, art supplies, etc. does $75 a year buy? Etc., etc., etc.? The math, programs and services simply do not compute. I’ve participated in panel discussions with leading home school proponents and have acquaintances whose children are home schooled. It’s not as simple as you make it out to be and not as perfect either.

By Crystal

July 25, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

This will be my first year teaching in Georgia, and my second year as a teacher. Last year I spent over $3500 in supplies. I taught in a relatively affluent school district in Maryland. The parents and the school district itself expected a lot from the teachers. Unfortunately, teachers are the ones who must take the brunt of the expenses and problems brought on by administrators who are over-paid and under-worked. Until schools are solely federally funded there will always be a discrepancy in spending. Poor children will suffer (unless they have teachers willing to dish out the cash) and more affluent children will continue to excel (due to the overwhelming pressure on teachers by the community). The bottom line is that we need to cut funding from the top and reallocate it to where it belongs - directly in the classroom. Never forget that the children and our nation’s future are in the hands of teachers!

By Vicki

July 25, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

I feel very sad that the teachers that post here today feel we (those of us who don’t teach in public or private schools) hate teachers or at least act like we do. I look at my childrens’ teachers as wonderful caring people who are on my side (we work as a team) and who want my kids to succeed. Our PTA gives each teacher an allowance of $100 at the beginning of the year on top of what the county gives them. I do know that first time teachers inherit books and materials from teachers that they replace. So no one really goes in empty handed. It might not be as a particular teacher had envisioned, but I’ve had jobs where I’ve had to make do with what I had for a temporary amount of time. There are programs teachers can build a library through like Scholastic Books and others alike. A new teacher doesn’t need to have everything at the start of the year, basics yes, your not going to do everything for the year the first few weeks of schools. Ask your parents for help! The worst thing they can do is say no. That does not happen at our school the PTA can and does help with special cases.

I have two children in the Fulton County School System. Each year I buy school supplies for the both of them and spend around $100. I also buy “extras” for a few of their classmates who can’t afford these items so the teachers won’t have to foot the bill. I’ve purchased lamps, microwaves, paper plates, paper towels, kleenex, foam sheets, dried beans, cereal, coffee filters, construction paper, glue, glue sticks, craft sticks, books, soap, cleaning wipes, snacks, etc., all for classroom use. I’ve made curtains for a classroom and been a Room Parent for the past 4 years and will continue to until the schools my children attend no longer need or want my help.

I don’t think it is right that the teachers have to spend their own money to furnish their classrooms; however, with some patients and yes some paper work I don’t feel some of the posters really have to spend $1000s of their hard earned saleries.

By Iteach

July 25, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

First my schools supplies - five reams of paper per year, a box of folders, one pack of 250 index cards, a pack of 12 pencils and 1 ink cartrige per year. I have 24 computers (3 supplied by the school system),and 6 printers (2 supplied by the school system). My extra 21 computers came from begging bussinesses for donations (6 computers and 2 printers were new).

Last week I spent $183.00 at Office Depot on copies for this next semester, $18 for a case of copier paper, $146 on ink cartriges, and $20 for a case of 1” notebooks. During this semester I will have to buy small supplies for labs (about $100), another pack of 120 pencils, a new electric pencil sharpener (to replace one) and other odds and ends. Some students will get my (from someone else) gift donations and calculators (usually 12 per semester). Don’t forget the emergency lunch fund that I usually put $50 in.

I look at the LCD projector as my personal business tool as well as my lap top and my smart board. I don’t complain because it is for the students and I chose to come to this school. For many familes it is a strain to get the $10 calculator and a $1.50 notebook (portfolios are required). Don’t get me wrong - I am not a Santa Claus, but many of my students are living far below poverty level and we stand in the gap.

By Iteach

July 25, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

Crystal made a good point that some teachers do it because they don’t want to see their students lacking while others do it out of guilt. A fellow science teacher that always has excellent science fair projects was relating how the parents in his community think that the robotics supplies are furnished by the system. Once he started he feels presure to keep it going. Like me he has become an expert at business begging.

By abc

July 25, 2005 05:07 PM | Link to this

When I was married to a public school teacher I didn’t allow expenditure of our funds on school supplies for her classrooms. I mean, give me a break. If you voluntarily give up the money for such things, I see no room for complaint, since it’s a choice you freely made.

By Henry

July 25, 2005 05:35 PM | Link to this

As a teacher in the APS for the past two years I have seen numerous cases where teachers go above and beyond the call of duty to purchase supplies for their students out of their own pockets. We - all of us - deserve better. This country can do better. Having an educated population benefits everyone. Personally, I have spent over $3000 during the past two years. I have purchased calculators, books and even clothes in order to assist my students.

When are we going to realize that a school is NOT a business? Students are not products. Running public schools based on the corporate model is insane. Let us recall that the goal of public education is to educate all who come, no matter their level of preparation or their social status. Private schools can and do pick and choose their students. Public education has a great and noble purpose. It is NOT a profit-making enterprise and it can not be effectively run as one. The attempts of late to force public education to conform to the corporate model has only encouraged more waste and corruption. And anyway why is that people continue to believe the nonsense that being like a corporation magically makes things better? Enron, WorldCom and Tyco were not just figments of our imagination. Educate yourself —-go rent the DVD “The Corporation”.

Finally, a word about unions. Unions are only as good as the people running them. They are not automatically good or bad. The knee-jerk reaction against unions is encouraged by those who attempt to keep workers from gaining any leverage against management which would thus improve working conditions for all employees. Unions are in fact legal in GA. However, they are notoriously weak and ineffective. No teacher’s union in GA has as yet gained the right for collective bargaining. Mainly, joining a teacher’s union in GA will give you liability coverage and you may get some legal help if you ever need to be represented.

By Chief

July 26, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this

Administrative waste and mismanagement are two reasons teachers lack classroom supplies.

Three examples from just one program: The superintendent of 1) Gwinnett Public Schools overspent by $1,500,000, 2) APS wasted $1,200,000, and 3) Calhoun City Schools currently spends $14 per head when a proven better program is offered for $5.

One program, mind you. More upsetting, the beneficiary pays no Georgia taxes.

Think that mismanged money is history? Currently, on the one program, GPS wastes $20,000 per year, APS more than $15,000. That’s a train car load of pencils/paper: frittered away.

Further, teacher “lack of” is not helped when good citizens hear that a school board lets a Johnnie Brown get $160,000 to sit idle, and that Georgia education is not producing the results we want for children.

Better news than a public hanging appeared yesterday. An administrator was fired for mismanaging school money. Refreshing. That word will get out and teachers will have money to buy classroom supplies.

By Shopper

July 26, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

I teach in the public schools but on an itinerant basis meaning I travel from school to school. Because of this, no one school claims me as a “full member” of the school, meaning I get no supplies from them. So, I have become a master at gathering supplies from every possible source. Flea markets, garage sales, Goodwill, and surplus places are all great places to find books, items for art projects, and other teaching aids. You just have to be creative. I definitely stay out of “teacher supply stores” - the markup on those items are way too expensive.

By danny

July 26, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

Couldn’t pay your electric bill?

The United States as a whole paid its public school teachers 34.9% more than its average workers earned.

By Cheryl

July 26, 2005 08:42 AM | Link to this

I have never been a teacher. I can only speak from a students point of view. I have been in a school where there are not enough books for the students and we had to share so we couldn’t do homework. I have been in a school where there were not enough supplies for the students (pencils, paper, etc). I have been in a school where there aren’t any balls for recess and definitely not for extra activities. Was this in the United States? Yes. Was this 40 or 50 years ago? No. I graduated from high school less than 10 years ago. I don’t know where the money that the schools get goes. I do know that there are a lot of poor people who are shorted a decent education. My guess is that schools in poor neighborhoods don’t get as much money as those in the richer ones. Maybe the poorer parents don’t have the extra money to send to the school for supplies like rich ones do to make up the gap. Whatever is happening, is it the children’s fault? Do they deserve what they get. No. They are just going to school trying to get a decent education. So whatever reason you have come up with for why they don’t have supplies doesn’t matter. What matters is that they don’t have them and the teacher has to make up the difference. Thank you teachers for caring! For the people who have a problem with the amount of money that teachers have to spend in order to still give these students a substandard education and think that they are just full of it (david, bobby), I suggest you spend some time volunteering at these schools and put yourself in the teachers shoes for a couple of weeks or months, then come back and tell us what you think. Seriously. You can make a real difference in the lives of these children.

By Marie

July 26, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

“Until schools are solely federally funded there will always be a discrepancy in spending.”

And this statement comes from an educated teacher.

Geez, give me a break and get the Federal Government out of my local school system. Keep the money at home.

Teachers…get a clue. If you need supplies ask your PTA to go to the School Board and ASK. Until you do you will always be taken as a putz.

By Karen Armsby

July 26, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

Henry, You are so right that school is NOT a business and students are NOT products. School system administrators have sold themselves on corproate models to produce uniform student ‘products.’ They measure the soundness of student ‘product’ uniformity by testing, but when test results are substandard or failing, instead of making a plan for remediation for individual students aka products, they give failing marks to their schools aka manufacturing plants, the principals aka plant managers, and teachers aka assembly line workers.

The individual failing students are virtually ignored because no plan is in place to identify them from the test results, to make a remediation plan, and to help individual failing students in the very areas they failed on the tests.

All student ‘products’ do not start out with the same raw materials, and attitude and aptitude, poverty, pitiful parenting, language barriers, and disabilities all contrubute to a variable student make-up. While you can group large numbers of similar type students and predict some degree of uniformity, there are always those that can’t or won’t conform.

The schools need to target the lagging and failing students with individual remediation. Reading skills are at the heart of most school success or failure. Schools need to identfy and pull out students and send them into reading boot camp classes to get them back on grade level.

I think that school system administrators need to abolish their business models of producing uniform student products. They need to let the teachers take back the authority to control their classrooms. Administators need to support their teachers with intervention and remediation plans. The test results should be used for positive purposes, and not the negative labelling and punitive assessments that don’t benefit anyone.

By Bondie

July 26, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

mjd1 and Abacus……I will speak for Reese. He/she clearly points out the fact that the groups mentioned are professional organization. He/she simply made a simple comparision. You can banter semantics if you want. But the fact is that teachers “organizations” lobby for better pay, more benefits, and better working conditions. If you think that is not a Union then so be it.

There have been many good points made, such as, Schools systems spend about $7500 per student per year. That’s $150,000 for a class room of 20 for 180 days of instruction. Thats $833 a day. Now can anyone tell me why a teacher under these conditions would need to spend their own money?

By Cheryl

July 26, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

Teachers, what are some of the things that would help you be better teachers and provide a better learning environment besides having adequate supplies? If you could have the ideal school. Not to get off the subject. Just curious. Thank you.

By Bee

July 26, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

“When are we going to realize that a school is NOT a business? Students are not products.”

Henry, your method has been tested and it failed. So lets move on to a better process.

By Dan

July 26, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this

Cheryl, You mention a number of critical problems, but see them from the wrong angle. Pencil and paper? Excuse me but the students should bring there own, balls for the playground ditto. The problem is people expect that the schools should provide everything. I don’t know if I ever had a new textbook in my life and often had to share, it’s not like kids are going to study every subject every night and if you do a little research you will see that in urban areas at least school districts in poor areas spend much more per student. In the smaller rural areas this is not the case. and in any case when people speak of rich poor what do they mean. The fact is there are not many of either most people, are firmly in the middle and well able to afford the small amount of extras if they were to cut back on a few items like expensive gym shoes, jerseys and such. The problem is public money mispent by administrations and private money misspent by parents

By Dick

July 26, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

Our efficent (?) school administration lets it be known the week of pre planning do not requisition any class rooms supplies. If you need them, buy them. Of course when the athletic dept needs items, money is no object, they get what they want. Our school teachers put up with a lot in South Georgia. Their air conditioning is set at 78 degrees, cannot be changed due to programming, plus at 3:15 each day the air is turned off. If they work late which most do, they work in the heat. They are not allowed to have any applicances, such as fans, in their class rooms. To those who say teachers are over paid, walk in their shoes for a while. Many parents will not purchase school supplies as they are too busy buying nike, adidas shoes, want kids to be in style. To all teachers I say thank you for the sacrifices you make as well as the crap you have to put up with from state officials,local school boards and administration.

By mjd1

July 26, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

ABC: What a pompous, domineering tyrant! You didn’t “allow” your wife to spend money she earned on supplies? What entitles you to “allow” or “disallow” your wife or anyone else to spend money they earn in any way they see fit?

Regarding your statement, “I see no room for ‘complaint.’” This is an education blog, and the question was: “Georgia teachers, how much do you spend? What do you buy?” Why do you perceive an honest answer to a question posed on an education blog to be a ‘complaint’? The problem is that you and the general public don’t want the truth, can’t handle the truth. You’d rather sweep it under the rug, pretend it doesn’t happen, because you’re ashamed of the truth. By the way, when was the last time you checked your son or daughter’s bookbag and agenda for papers to be signed, letters to parents, homework assignments, supply inventory, etc.? You wouldn’t dream of going to an important meeting at work poorly prepared or without paper and pen or pencil. Yet highly successful parents who can well afford supplies (truthfully, some parents cannot afford even minimal supplies) send their children to school with brand new Nikes and the latest T-shirt craze but without the tools (e.g., calculator, pocket dictionary, paper and pencil) necessary for students to do their schoolwork. When queried about why supplies weren’t replenished over the weekend, students will answer with such statements as, “My dad was too tired after his golf game to go to the store and we got busy and forgot,” “There wasn’t a Wal-Mart on the way to the lake, and it was too late to go when we got home,” “My mom forgot to pick any up at the store.”

To Chief: “Administrative waste and mismanagement are two reasons teachers lack classroom supplies.” You bring up some good points; now, come up with a solution. Teachers cannot clean up administrative waste and mismanagement in school systems. The public has to hold administrators accountable for how their tax dollars are spent by running for the school board, complaining to the county commission, demanding an explanation of questionable ledger items or raising such a stink when you uncover misappropriation of funds that they are repaid. Teachers only work as employees in the system; they are not the watchdogs! If you want good administration of your money, you have to stick your neck out or stand up and be counted.

By Dick

July 26, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Danny, in your figuring the percentage of salaries, are you figuring in the salaries for administrators? If so, back that out and see what average salary is for a teacher.

By Brenda

July 26, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

Karen, I disagree that schools are run like a business. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As an example. Businesses do not tolerate unproductive workers. The right to work is a right, but somehow education is.

I am going to be blunt here. No disrepect intended. My son has a class mate who will never be able to be educated. He is brain dead. Yet, the school is required to pick him up everyday and bring him to school. He needs a full time nurse. No school work is ever completed for obvious reasons. Total cost to the school system is $210,000 a year. A business would never operate this way.

Cheryl ask a great question for all you teachers and parents. What if you had the ability to form a school any way you wanted. What would your school look like and how would it work?

By Karen Armsby

July 26, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

Bondie, Semantics do matter. A union is an organization that has the authority to formally bargain for, and accept or reject a salary and benefits package for its union members as a whole. The Georgia teachers professional assoc. do not have any authority to bargain, or accept or reject a salary and benefit package for their members. They do not do the formal collective bargaining that Unions do.

Both unions and teacher associations can lobby, but teacher associations in Georgia cannot bargain. That’s the semantic difference.

By cheryl

July 26, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

Dan, granted students should bring thier own pencil and paper, but they don’t for whatever reason and they need those items to learn. So are you saying that because these children don’t have these items the should sit idle in the classroom while the children who have them learn? The students should bring their own playground balls?? Should they bring their own swings and slides to school too? Do you send your children to school with their own balls for the playground? In a lot of smaller rural areas the education is not what it should be either.

By Robert C

July 26, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

“To Chief: “Administrative waste and mismanagement are two reasons teachers lack classroom supplies.â€? You bring up some good points; now, come up with a solution.”

Solution:

Go to the PTA and tell them that it is your view that the taxpayers are not paying enough to properly fund a class room. Give examples. Ask that the PTA go to the school board and ask for more funds for the classroom. If, after that, you are not satisfied either quit and get another job, ask for the parents to provide more funds, keep buying the supplies yourself, or do with what you have.

By KH

July 26, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

To TH, You can deduct more than $250 on your taxes if you itemize all your purchases and keep your receipts.

By Pat

July 26, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

I say bravo ABC. Finally at least one answer to the problem.

Teachers, as long as you buy the materials the school is suppose to buy with all the tax money I give to them then you are part of the problem. Get some backbone and start saying no or move to a different job.

Like Dan said, it really takes very little to fund a classroom with all the education material needed.

Most all the info needed for teaching can now be printed form the internet. If as someone said above that a typical class room draws in about $180,000 for 180 days of education why in the world can we not afford paper and pencils. Please, someone tell me where the money goes.

By Karen Armsby

July 26, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Brenda, Sorry if I was unclear in my explanation. I was not addressing the profitability of the fiscal aspect of schools, rather the product success aka student success.

It has been my observation in Gwinnett Co. schools over the past 18 years as my kids went k-12 through them that the goal of standardized testing has been to demonstrate the uniformity of success of their student products, much like businesses test the success of their products coming off the assemply line or market research tests new product release.

The business model fails because, instead of using test results to identify individual students that need help in specific areas that they failed, the adminsitration labels the schools, principals or teachers as deficient or failing, much like a plant manager would give a poor performance review to his department heads or assembly line workders.

Unlike businesses, schools cannot control the raw material student population they must work with. Therefore, a business model fails. Students are not products; they are individuals and should be taught according to their individual strengths and weakness.

By Mellllll2

July 26, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

mjd1- we don’t hate teachers, we just have high expectations of them. If there are so many good ones, why are there so many under educated kids coming out of our schools?

Quit spending all your money and do what you were hired to do. TEACH! You make it sound like you’re working in a 3rd world country. Well, some of the 3rd world countries have no paper or pencils and they manage to teach their children. Since when does it take pens and paper to teach. Try being creative.

By Frankie

July 26, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

Here is just one example of abuse of taxpayers funds that could help teachers get money for their class room.

In Dalton city schools breakfast and lunch is provided for about 90% of the students per their website. Dalton is a booming industrial town with jobs everywhere. People are making great money and have benefits. So why are the taxpayers paying for food that should be provided by the parents. Yes, some need help….but 90% in a town full of great paying jobs!

By Chief

July 26, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

To mjd1. Do teachers pay taxes? If yes, does not waste and mismanagement steal from you, too?

Don’t school administrators come from the classroom? What do you suppose makes them forget from the greasy spoon to the silver spoon ?

BTW: Stay tuned for the Fall “stink”. Your insight is most helpful. Thanks.

By cheryl

July 26, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

It doesn’t take pencil and paper to teach, just to learn.

By Karen Armsby

July 26, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

I am not a teacher, but I volunteered for years in my kids’ schools and was PTA president for a couple of years. Teachers should encourage a strong PTA at your schools. The parents who participate and who gather others to help are your greatest resource. PTA’s can raise huge amounts of money that purchase a lot of school and gym equipment, library books, teacher supplies, copy paper, and even pay salaries of clinic workers and extra parapros. In poor and rural school systems where money is scarce, then building your volunteer force of PTA volunteers can give the teachers help with preparing teaching materials (copying, cutting, coloring, pasting, putting up bulletin boards). Volunteers can be trained and serve as lunchroom and playground monitors. If you invite the volunteers, and have some menaingful work to do, your voulunteer parents will also better appreciate the job teachers do in the school. A strong PTA and good communication between faculty and volunteers helps the students, too. When the kids see that parents care about their school, then they will perform better. Sure, PTA’s can go to the School Board and lobby for more teacher money, but I worked more on my local school level, building a group of interested volunteers, organizing work for them to do, scheduling them and then most important, thanking them for helping. You don’t need a huge time commitment from every volunteer. Value the 2 hours of help at the fall festival, or the one hour a week the parent helps in the library. The students see who’s mom and dad is showing up, and they want their parents to help, too.

By Danny

July 26, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

To Dick. The average teacher in Gwinnett has more than 12 years’ experience and earns about $60,000 a year, including benefits. –2/28/05 AJC

By Lynne

July 26, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

This year, I will probably spend money on CDs and cheap USB keys for my students. I won’t allow them to miss out on an opportunity just because their parents are less fortunate than the others.

By Lisa

July 26, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

I am not going to have any of my fourth grade students get a zero on a test or assignment because parents didn’t send supplies to school. It’s ridiculous to refuse a child a pencil or some paper. I spent $200 at Staples yesterday stocking up on the basics. I also spend hundreds of dollars annually building a classroom library, purchasing project supplies, computer disks, etc. I spent more at the beginning of my career, but in my eighth year, still spent around $1,000. Some parents do send extra supplies, and PTA helps as well. However, the daily need is a bottomless pit!

By Lynne

July 26, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

To Mellllll2 - You are the type parent I wish could spend just one day in a typical high school classroom, so you could see what we’re up against. In one classroom, we could have children in there from 3rd world countries, children who haven’t been in school since the 2nd grade, children who drive Hummers to school, etc.

It is difficult to address all of needs of these students in one classroom. So, we are creative and use whatever resources that we can. If that means that we have to spend a little money to do so - we really don’t mind.

Remember that we are competing with music videos, video games, the internet, etc. for the students’ attention. So, it does sometimes take a little more than pen and paper to teach.

Don’t be so angry with teachers. Work with us and maybe we can work together to make your children successful.

By Karen Armsby

July 26, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

I forgot to add that PTA’s should also work to establish partnerships with local businesses, and get contributions of $$ and supplies. You have to approach the local business owner or local business service organization such as Kiwainis or Rotary with a clear proposal and show them the benefits that the support and advertising through the school will bring to them. Teachers, if you need help, you need to get organized, and don’t whine, just ask your PTA and parents. Parents generally have no idea how much the school does not provide, what you need in supplies, and how much you spend out of pocket, unless you tell them.

By Danny

July 26, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

To Dick: Administrator salaries were not included.

“The United States as a whole paid its public school teachers 34.9% more than its average workers earned.

By yesiamworried

July 26, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this

Karen

I don’t know what kinds of schools your children attended, but once you reach a certain poverty level, it becomes almost impossible to have a strong PTA. Too many parents are either uneducated, unmotivated, don’t speak English or very often, working multiple jobs just to get by.

Organizing PTAs really starts with the parents. Additionally, the state or system level PTA council can help start one.

Our PTA tries to make sure that teachers don’t spend money out of pocket. I am sure that many still do — though we give them each several hundreds of dollars in unrestricted start up money. Additionally, they can apply for mini-grant money through the year. Plus, if they need more, we almost never say no.

By mike

July 26, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

my mother worked in the atlanta public schools for 20 years-and i mean a super ghetto middle school. she had stories every day about how much money was wasted there. kids being given brand new musical instruments like 5000 dollar violins and taking them home and shattering them, kids throwing brand new text books into dumpsters and top of the line computers being locked in storage rooms till they became obsolete. APS has no idea how to run a school system.

By lynn

July 26, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

Mellllll2

I think we have kids coming out of school so uneducated because their parents are so disconnected. It is amazing to me that even educated parents seem to resist high expectations for their children. If I hear my child has too much homework or that teacher grades too hard from another parent of a high schooler, I think I am going to be ill. (And this isn’t just from public school parents, but private school parents as well.)

There is an expression, “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.” Poor kids, with uneducated parents, have to work harder to succeed. That is just the way it is. They go home to parents who can’t (or won’t) help them.

I have travelled to schools across Georgia and there are teachers working really hard — but when you see where these kids start (and this in multiple grade levels, not just kindergarden or first) you see the huge mountains that must be climbed.

Are all teachers great? Of course, not but neither are all doctors, reporters, attornies, CPAs, and other professionals. Life isn’t perfect.

Until we find a way to hold parents at least somewhat accountable for their children’s education — we will continue to have children fail.

By Karen Armsby

July 26, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

yesiamworried, If you think something is impossible, then guess what, it probably is. Regardless of the economic wealth or poverty of a community you will have always active and involved parents and with the help and support of the principal and teachers working together through PTA, you can begin to build a good support base. Parents, rich and poor, love their children and given information and structure they can and will contribute, even if it is only one hour a year.

The key is to respect your parents as stakeholders in the education process. You teachers need parents to reinforce good study habits at home, and they can also support your teaching efforts at school through fundraisers, book fairs, carnivals, etc. No matter how poor the community, you can always attract people to a spaghetti supper or fun festival day, and these are simple inexpensive fundraisers to carry out.

And, it’s been my experience that sometimes the wealthier parents are the least involved because they ‘work’ and they are too busy to volunteer. They resent the fundraisers, too. Believe me, when I was in PTA it was more often the parents with the least amount of income that were the biggest organizers, contributors, supporters, and volunteered the most time.

Teachers are college educated to teach, and all I am trying to say is that teachers also need to educate themselves in how to build support amongst their parents, and PTA is a great way to give parents and teachers the vehicle for communcation and support.

The principal and another teacher always sat on our PTA boards, and they worked with us a partnership. PTA means Parent and Teacher. A smart principal will organize his/her teachers to build communication and support with their parents through PTA.

By C.R.H.

July 26, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

The most I ever spent was about $3500 for some special equipment that I needed for a special project (long term) that I wanted to do with my students. I normally spend anywhere from $200 - $500 each year. I do a lot of big lots, dollar general type shopping. It does get frustrating when a kid comes in and asks for a 3 ringed binder because the one he has is from years ago and doesn’t even hold paper, but the kid is wearing shoes that cost over $100 and/or has a top of the line cell phone hanging off his baggy “Sean John” pants. Someone somewhere needs to get their priorities in order!

By Mellllll2

July 26, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

i’ve worked with teachers for years (still am). i have a daughter going to Columbia for her second year of nursing, and two sons that graduated in Finance (1 from Emory, 1 from Kennesaw) and my last one just entering high school this year.

I’ve been to plenty of high school classes and see what’s to be dealt with. My experience has been that there are only a few special people that can grab the hearts and minds of kids. You either have it, or you don’t. Being a teacher is something you’re born with, not something you learn.

By Sherrie

July 26, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

I have a friend that teaches at a Title I school and for the last several years I have bought various supplies from paper, crayons, etc and played room mother for holidays even though I have no children, much less children in her class. Last year I spent over $400, with most of that purchased before the school year started. Members of the community need to become more involved when they see a need instead of waiting for someone else to fix it. While she does seem to have one or two parents who can provide for their children, but choose NOT to, by and large this is not the case. As a child I can remember what it was like not having supplies the year my father lost his job and money was nowhere to be found. No child should feel that way. I only wish that more members of the community would not believe it is the teachers job alone to improve the learning environment.

By Swan

July 26, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

Pat, have you’ve visited a modern classroom lately? It’s a lot more than pencils and paper now. It involves graphing calculators, LCD panels for overhead projectors and lab supplies like burners and flasks.

“Most all the info needed for teaching can now be printed form the internet.”

You may not be aware of copyright laws that forbid mass reproduction of some documents off the Internet. As it is, most of the commerically-produced worksheets you’re probably thinking of do little to stimulate true learning, especially in the upper grades.

It’s not as cheap (or simple) as you might think.

By Dick

July 26, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

I read where many use the words “poverty level, uneducated parents”. Let me ask you, who pays the parents/guardians/students way into sporting events?. They pay their own way in. If they can afford $6.00 per tricket for 5 home football games, which equals $30.00 plus concessions, etc they sure as heck can stop wasting my tax dollars and buy their children pens, papers, and pencils. They can purchase their first grade child Nike shoes, calvin cline clothing, they can buy pens, pencils, and papers. Our government has brainwashed parents into thinking, if you don’t make $20,000.00 a year, you live in poverty and we do not expect someone in poverty to provide for their children. I say the first step in correcting the problem with education is to get the government out of it. 2nd-return operation to local levels,, not state or federal as what works in Atlanta Ga will not work in Thomasville, Ga. 3rd allow superintendents to be elected, not appointed nor hired by the board of education. In our area the superintendent does not have to answer to parents as long as he keeps the seven board members happy. As long as they are happy he has job security.

By sassyk

July 26, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

My two cents and a nickel: As a parent of two children, one 8 year old (wears required uniform by Dekalb County) and one 3 years old, earning $17,000 I spend more than some teachers’ $500 headache. The government may consider me in poverty, but due to supply lists, required uniforms (the 3 year old has to wear one too even though I pay for her to go because she’s not eligible for Lottery funded Pre-K yet), more volunteer hours worked than what the school requires not to mention field trips, special dietary arrangements(children can’t eat beef (causes diarrhea)or drink milk (lactose intolerant)or juice unless it’s 100% juice (because lunches served at school are not always healthy for my children, I supply it.) Let’s not mention the healthcare fees I have to pay for my child to be enrolled in school considering Medicaid says I make too much but Peachcare says I can not enroll there either because I make too little. Not only this but let us consider all the functions the school puts on in the name of fundraising but I have yet to see the fruits of that labor. I don’t buy my children Nikes, Jordans, Hilfiger, Baby Phat, etc. I can’t afford it! Most street clothes they receive are given to them except uniforms. Yet they only wear them on weekends. Teachers say they have to spend all this money. DO like I do apply for the assistance first before buying. Miracles do happen (I know because my job entails calling school boards about purchase orders sent to me). I personally have spoken to a few accounting people at BOE who say what teachers themselves say: They don’t receive because they don’t request. I had one teacher in a particular county get a lot of money allocated to him for supplies (every year) because other teachers didn’t fil out forms (which the teachers consider a waste of time) It doesn’t matter if you receive the supplies a few months late because you can always use some of them the following school year. I buy my children school supplies all year long whenever there is a sale. On average I spend maybe $5-$10 per week getting uniforms and supplies. Then at the beginning of the school year I compare what I bought all year long to what they need for that year then I go to store and buy whatever is on the list. I also agree with one poster about going to the dollar store. Guess what: Dollar Tree, Walgreens (dollar aisle), Eckerds (dollar aisle) are my best friends. Why go to teacher supply store for items you can buy cheaper elsewhere. On go there for items unique to that store that you must have. Everything else is unneccesary. If parents AND teachers don’t budget AND spend wisely what make us think the children will grow up to do the same? So everyone needs to stop complaining and do their parts. Yes I understand some parents just can’t do it because they have limited income or lots of children. However, that’s no excuse for the teacher not asking the parent to give a few dollars. Consider getting with other teachers and bulk buy supplies at Sam’s or BJ’s and then sell school supply bags with the basics in it already for $5(varies depending on the supplies for grade level) per child. Those that don’t have supplies will need to ask friends and family for a few dollars to help. Yet, the problem will continue until you stand up! If you have time to complain then you have time to ask for assistance!

By cheryl

July 26, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Cheryl asked a great question for all you teachers and parents. What if you had the ability to form a school any way you wanted. What would your school look like and how would it work?

By shadams

July 26, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

David, for some reason it seems as if you do not believe that administrators deserve to earn 34.9% more than the “average” worker. Think for just a moment about what the word average entails. Surely you agree that a high school principal deserves to make 34.9% more than people working in jobs such as manufactur, food service, and construction. Be careful how you interpret statistics, as they can be extremely misleading.

By luv2teach

July 26, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this

Danny - I’ve seen that figure before, but realize, please, that “average worker” includes everyone from your local McDonald’s clerk to a CEO. It includes a large number of jobs that do not require a college degree. When you compare apples to apples, and look at all college educated people, the difference drops significantly. Don’t forget - many people with college degrees also have college loans…

To Marie and others - not all schools have a strong PTA - just look at the AJCs school report. Lower incomed schools also typically (yes there are exceptions) have little to no PTA involvement - no involvement, no money.

It’s easy to tell a teacher to “just teach” - how come no one ever tells students to “just learn” - they are not synonymous, you know. Both take effort, neither occurs in a vaccuum.

Finally - I find it highly ironic that, here, when someone says that parents need to take responsibility for their children, it’s parent-bashing, and yet, on the blog about video games, there were many comments about parents needing to take responsibility for their children. The general consensus was favorable!

By Dan

July 27, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this

SassyK It sounds like you are trying to do your part, which is good. But they are your children and quite frankly, it is not a teachers responsibility to pay a nickel for their supplies. Of course since no one is making them pay they shouldn’t complain quite so much but even so, they should be thanked for every dime.

By Karen Armsby

July 27, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

luv2teach, For many years I volunteered through PTA, and when I first got involved 19 years ago, the PTA ladies were mostly there to bake cookies and socialize. And at first I experienced a negative reaction from the teachers of us (parents) vs. them (teachers). Teachers were suspect of letting nosy parents in the classroom. But we had a wise principal who encouraged us to get involved, and our little PTA started the VIP’s, Very Involved Parents. We scheduled our crew to help teachers with copying,laminating and assembling teaching materials. We had an in box and promised a three day turn around time, and that freed the teachers up for more instruction time. From there we attracted more and more parents to help with our reading incentive program we organized and ran. For fundraisers that benefited the school and teachers we ran fall and spring festivals, book fairs, and talent shows. We did all of this working together with the principal and teachers.

If you are tired of spending your own money, then you need to seek other resources and PTA is a great resource. You may be lucky enough to be in a school with a strong PTA, or you may have to start at the beginning. Building your PTA will also strengthen parent support of academics in your students, too.

PTA’s don’t spring up overnight, and it takes work to build your membership and participation. But with a little work among principal and teachers to recruit and encourage parents with leadership, you can get a PTA going and growing in any school. Even if the community is dirt poor and uneducated, there are still leaders there, just waiting for an invitation from the school to get involved. The churches are usually strong even in poor communities, and you can approach the minister and ask for help identifying people who can lead and help you get the PTA started. With some hard work up front organizing and building your PTA you will reap the benefits for your classroom and school for many years.

The negative reaction to my PTA comments just shows me that you do not realize that your involvelment as a teacher is critical to getting any PTA established. You can sit by and complain about spending your own funds for your classroom needs, or you can get moving and help your PTA get organized and growing. Communication is the key. If you don’t tell anyone you need help and talk about solutions, then the problem will still be there tomorrow.

By Danny

July 27, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

To luvs2 - Your thinking appears flawed. A single hedge fund CEO took home a billion dollars last year. That’s with a “B”. 34.9% more income than the average worker is an apples to apples comparison. Is “drops significantly” your opinion or can you provide a source/s?

To sadams Principals are administrators. They were NOT included.

Further, teachers work less than 180 days each year to earn more than 34.9%. (9 months X 20 days less numerous holidays not given off by corporate America.)

By Melissa

July 27, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

As a teacher in a small, rural school (with little tax base in the county), I “get” $150 to buy supplies for my classes and classroom. Whoopee!!! I teach science and computer science. I spend approximately $500-750 each year to purchase all sorts of things (pencils, paper, art supplies, lab supplies, floppies, food rewards, etc.) I do it because I want my students to feel comfortable and want to come into my classroom to experience learning.

PARENTS - when you walk into your student’s classroom this year for OPEN HOUSE - look around. If the classroom is bright, cheerful, colorful, posters on the wall, clean, organized with activity centers and so on, THANK the teacher because most likely she/he has spent their own money and TIME making it that way. If you go into a classroom that has bare walls and is sterile, that teacher has use only the money that the school has given them.

Learning CAN take place in a sterile classroom, BUT today’s students have to EXPERIENCE learning…very different from the way my parents and I learned. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s just the way it is.

By Karen Armsby

July 27, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Melissa, Are you happy or content to spend out of pocket for your classroom needs? Have you participated in your school’s PTA, or tried to organize one to tap the parent resources? Have you tried to work with local business and service organizations to form business partnerships with your school? Have you applied for grant money to help stock your classroom?

By Rhonda K.

July 27, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

I’m not a teacher, but I’m on the Board of my child’s PTA, and after learning what the supply budget was for the children this year, we are providing a supply closet to the teachers. That wasn’t in our budget before, so we had to cut elsewhere, we cut the funds for Teacher Appreciation Week. We figured the teachers would be much happier not having to spend their own money for supplies! We are the smallest school in the our county, the student to teacher ratio is around 9 to 1. What frustrates me is there is a staff of 60 for a school of 205 students, however there is no budget from the county for the Music or PE teacher! Seems like they could cut out some of the extra staff(non-teaching positions) and allocate those funds elsewhere!

Thanks to community involvement, and the PTA I don’t think our kids go without much at our school, and hopfully the teachers will not have to spend as much of their own money!

By luv2teach

July 27, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

First, to SassyK, I applaud your effort with your children. However, I resent the fact that you referred to the topic as a “teachers’ $500 headache.” The blog topic was about how much we spent. When we tell you, then people say we are complaining. Look on a teacher discussion board, where the audience is other teachers, and you will find similar comments regarding the amount of money spent - not complaints, just sharing.

I will defend my parents who went above and beyond for their children (and often helped others). But I did have some who didn’t provide for their children. Is it really another parent’s or the teacher’s repsonsiblity to pick up the slack? I teach in the same district I live in. When I ran out of tissues in my classroom, I would use TP from the restroom. I had students ask why I didn’t buy them tissue. My answer was that I had already done my job, and sent the tissue to my children’s schools. Severe? Perhaps. But I spent enough of my own money on things for my classroom that we used for lessons.

I was lucky to work at a school where we had a supply budget, and sometimes there was money for activities when I asked. Sometimes, however, there wasn’t. My choice was to either do without or to suck it up and buy it myself. Depending on the cost and the value of the activity, sometimes I bought the materials, other times I skipped it.

I am thrifty - I (and most teachers I know) go to the Dollar Store, Wal-Mart, etc. I also go to thrift stores, flea markets, and garage sales. I’ve been able to get donations from businesses, as well as free stuff from the internet. They are great for supplies, reading books, miscellaneous items that can be used in a lab. However, those places often don’t have curriculum specific materisl - posters, workbooks, lesson planners, etc. Sometimes, you have to suck it up and go to the “expensive teacher supply store” because that is the only place to find what you need.

Yes, there are some good resources on the internet - but with the good is a lot of dreck. Some stuff isn’t good because it doesn’t match our curriculum. Some stuff isn’t grade level appropriate. Some stuff is just BAD - “busy work” meaningless worksheets, and such.

Karen, I wasn’t trying to be negative about the PTA - I think they are valuable. I am active as both the ‘P ‘and the ‘T’ at my school and my children’s school. My children’s schools were blessed with very active PTAs - my school, not so much - with so many working parents who work two jobs or second or third shift, it’s difficult. The few parents we got were wonderful, but could only do so much. You were lucky that you had an active PTA - I was trying to point out that not all schools have that as a resource. If you look at the AJCs school report, they will show a corelation between the number of free and reduced lunch eligible and the membership in the PTA. Schools in lower income areas also have less money for fund-raising. Who will buy some over-priced wrapping paper when they need to put food on the table? My point isn’t that PTAs are bad - they’re not; they’re great. My point was to all of you out there saying, “Go ask the PTA” like it’s that easy, please realize, for some schools, it’s not.

Finally, Danny - you show me your resource, and I’ll show you mine…seriously, I have seen your numbers quoted on a website that was decidly anti-teacher. I saw my fact in an article about nationwide salaries in a magazine a few months ago. Give me some time, and I’ll try to find a similar web source.

Vacations aside, we don’t get off as many holidays as you might think - I’m in school several days that mail is not delivered and banks are not open.

Our salary is based on (about - depends on the system) a 194 day year. We get a per diem that is spread out over the entire year. I don’t complain about my salary - never have, never will. I’m happy with it. But I do take offense to people who act as if we are overpaid and underworked.

By Rhonda K.

July 27, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this

I wanted to add that for our teacher’s supply closet, we did a survey, and asked them what items they buy out of their own money, and which supplies they always need. I’m an accountant, and some of the others on the PTA Board are stay-at-home moms, and we are really good at bargain shopping. Also, many local businesses will discount or donate products to school for the free advertising. Many fast food chains actually require the managers to find a school to sponser(I was a manager in my prior career, we were required to make donations to the schools).

By Karen Armsby

July 27, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Rhonda K, That is exactly what I am talking about! You have good communications with your teachers and have heard their need and answered it. Our PTA used to buy copy paper, rolls of laminating plastic, and construction paper and stocked the teacher workroom, so they could come in and get their instructional materials made without agonizing over their monthly copy paper limit or lamination inches. Our PTA started a clinic, which we stocked, and so had a place for an ill child to rest until mom could pick him up, supply a band aid or ice pack, or supervise and store medicine the students had to take during the school day. We staffed it at first with volunteers, then funded a position for one of our volunteers who was a nurse, and wanted to take it on at a minimum wage level. The teachers gave us a wish list at the start and end of the school year so that we could plan our budget and projects and choose what we would be able to fund that year, or build a larger fund over several years for a big project, like supplying a rubber composit floor for our bare bones concrete floor gym. We gave each teacher a stipend to get started in the fall. We forged partnerships with big and little businesses and got contributions of materials and money for our school’s needs.

I think there are many ways to solve this teacher supplies problem, they just need to start looking for resources and start networking wiuth their students’ parents and community.

By Karen Armsby

July 27, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

We also had a clinic drive at the beginning of the year and sent a list home with the kids asking for band aids, ice packs, gauze dressings, old clothes in a variety of sizes, and new packages of underwear so kids could change if they were sick and soiled theirs. We baought a small fridge to store the medicines, a small cot and sheets and towels.

We had book drives asking parents to clean out the little kid books and send them to our kindergarten, first and second grade classrooms to give them little in class libraries.

By luv2teach

July 27, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

I researched a bit and I found two trends…

Teacher sites (NEA, for example) tend to state that while teacher salaries have risen, they have not kept pace with inflation, and they tend to be lower overall when compared to jobs requiring similar levels of education.

Anti-teacher sites (homeschool proponents, etc) tend to state quotes like the one mentioned by Danny, which factor in jobs of all skill and education level.

Two things to keep in mind: First the term “average” - when you’re looking at a nationwide average, realize that while there are some people making more than that, there can be more people making less - it’s not a median. A nationwide average doesn’t factor in state differences in cost of living, etc. Second, remember, it’s like a pyramid - lots of lower paying people on the bottom, a few well-paid CEOs on top. Danny’s fact about the hedge fund CEO (I have a hard time with the idea he makes billions - given that there are so few billionaires in the US) - in any case, there aren’t that many of them, but there are lots of retail and fast food workers. I couldn’t find anything in my quick search that stated whether these numbers were based on straight salries, or included bonuses and perks.

I did however, find a very interesting page at the National Council for Teacher Quality, where two economists (not teachers) debated the great teacher pay controversy. It’s VERY interesting and takes into consideration many factors mentioned here, including summers off. Those of you interested, please check it out, and take the time to go to each of the economists sites.

http://www.nctq.org/nctq/publications/debate.jsp

Enjoy!

By Rhonda K.

July 27, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

I’d like to add another fact about my child’s school. 80% of the children recieve free lunch, our PTA membership was 70% last year, 100 % for the faculty and staff. 3 years ago, our PTA had no elected officers, no Board. Compared to other PTA’s, our budget is tiny, but we make it work. We try to minimize the fundraising activites, as most of the parents are poor, and can’t afford much. The ironic part is the “poor” families always sell more than the better off families. We started a Santa shop 2 years ago, so the kids could pick out small gifts for their family, not intending to raise money for the PTA. We had a brunch, a local restuarant donated enough food for 200 people, and we spent a small amount on food. We charged a nominal amount for brunch. We had a Santa, and sold pictures at a cost to break-even. When the event was over, we netted $500 thanks to donations from the businesses around us! The $500 we netted in turn went to the school for supplies.

My thoughts is how can a teacher concentrate on teaching when they have to worry about supplies for the classroom! These children are our future!

By Terri

July 27, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

As a teacher in an affluent and successful public high school, I still spend roughly $300 to $500 on supplies each year. Students come to class with iPods, cell phones, and PSPs, but no paper, pencils or pens. Students steal the supplies I do purchase (with my own money or the money given to me at the beginning of the year) or leave the supplies in such a state that they cannot be reused. Once I asked students to donate supplies at the end of the year for the next school year and was told by the school that that practice was unacceptable as some students may not be able to donate supplies. I discovered later that a parent had complained that teachers were begging for supplies from their students and she felt she was being “guilted into buying supplies for the classroom.” Students leave textbooks in rooms and in cars, and, by the end of the year, these textbooks are often lost or destroyed. The students shrug off the $80 textbook fee knowing their parents will pay for it. When I contact a parent about his/ her child’s inability to come to class prepared, I am often met with the same response- “Don’t you have those items in your classroom for him/ her to use?” It is up to the parents to teach their children how to be responsible.

As for “whining” about salaries and this supposed “three months vacation” that teachers are given, I have thirty students in my classroom on average. That’s up to 150 students a year. I have to grade at least fifteen formal essays a year for those students (at about 5 pages each on average, it is similar to editing 11,250 pages a school year). In addition, I must prepare them for their End of Course Reading and Writing Tests, their Georgia High School Graduation Reading and Writing Tests, their PSAT and SAT Verbal and Writing tests and make sure I reach every objective in my quality core curriculum, which has changed in objectives and name at least three times in the six years I have been teaching I work, planning, sponsoring clubs and grading, approximately seventy hours a week, and I work during my “vacation” time as well. During the summer, we must take professional development classes to maintain our certification or teach summer school to supplement our incomes. God forbid someone in our families becomes ill or we are hospitalized! We can bank sick days, but, as with everybody else, events occur in our lives that do not fit neatly into our schedules.

I love my job, as difficult as it is at times, as I know that I will ultimately benefit the lives of the students I teach, but I resent the vitriol that some people have towards teachers when they truly have no idea what a teacher’s life is like. Please stop listening to anti-public school rhetoric…it only makes your arguments sound as weak as your grammar and spelling.

By Rhonda K.

July 27, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

Terri,

We also got complaints when sending out letters asking parents to donate items, if possible. We now clearly state on our letters that parents are under no obligation to donate anything…..yet no parent has ever sent back donated items their child received!

At first I wasn’t happy about donating items all the time to the school. My taxes have increased 200% in 3 years on my house, seems like some of that should be going to my child’s school! I complained to my mother-in-law, a retired kindergarten teacher who taught in the poorest schools in the Miami-Dade area. I didn’t realize that teachers spent their own money for school supplies. I’m in the business world, if I need something; my company buys it for me. Most would consider her income high for a teacher. She had 40 years experience, a Masters Degree. After 5 years experience, a Bachelor’s degree, my salary exceeded hers.

By Stephem

July 27, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Danny,

Please tell me where you arrived at this 34.9 percent figure - you’ve cited it several times but have never stated the source from where it is derived. I’d like to look into it to ensure it is a reputable source. Thank you.

By Danny

July 28, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

To Karen, Luvs2, and Stepham “U.S. as a whole paid its public school teachers 34.9% more than its average workers.”

Sources: NEA, United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, and The Education Intelligence Agency (latter: conducts public education research, analysis and investigation.)

Here’s the quoted Internet article: http://www.calnews.com/Archives/1YBIIsal.htm

To luvs2 “Danny’s fact about the hedge fund CEO (I have a hard time with the idea he makes billions…”

My quote was: A single hedge fund CEO took home a billion dollars last year.

Source: ABC News 7/26/05 and WSJ (See below)

Highest Wall Street pay tops $1 billion a year By Patrick Martin 9 June 2005

The highest paid US hedge fund operator made more than $1 billion in 2004, the first time a Wall Street financial manager has topped the billion dollar mark in annual income, according to a survey published last week by a trade publication. Edward S. Lampert made $1.02 billion, while his firm, ESL Investments, raked in a 69 percent return on investment, largely due to Lampert’s deal-making in the merger of Kmart and Sears.

By luv2teach

July 28, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Danny, unfortunately your link didn’t work. However, I read that particular fact on an anti-public school site - that doesn’t mean you didn’t get it from the sources you stated - in the wonderful world of cyberspace, lots of stuff gets shared, and facts get restated (and sometimes manipulated). As a critical reader, I tend to read things online in the context of who writes or sponsors the site.

I saw that statistic (and was surprised, given the press about how underpaid teachers were) when I was looking up something else. Unfortunately, that wasn’t what I was looking for so I didn’t pay it much attention, but I did note that the site was a political site advocating vouchers and private schools, as well as homeschools.

I said I don’t have a problem with what I’m paid, but that I do have a problem with that statistic - that it left out important information - namely, that it factored in jobs of ALL education and skill levels.

As far as your quote, my bad - I reread it, and indeed it was as you said. However, that doesn’t negate my point. It was a “single hedge fund CEO” (and as your more indepth quote stated, it was “the first time…”)

If you take the wages of ten million (no source, I’m just using that number as an example) minimum wage workers ($5.15) an hour and multiply $5.15 x 40 (hours) x 50 (weeks - no two weeks paid vacation) x 10 million you get $103,000,000,000 - over one hundred billion dollars.

Now, divide 104 billion (with our CEO’s salary) by 10,000,001 (with our CEO) and you get an average salary of $10,399.99. So a starting teacher in Georgia, with an approximate salary of $35,000 looks pretty impressive - however, how many of those minimum wage workers are qualified to be teachers?

I stand by my original point.

Remember - even if you are a one-in-a-million kind of guy in China, there are still 1000 others just like you!

By luv2teach

July 28, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

Curiosity didn’t kill the cat - it was the wasted hours on the internet without food or water that did…

Afraid that my 10,000,000 minimum wage worker number was incorrect enough to invalidate my argument, I did a little research…

On the Dept. of Labor site, I found that in 2004 there were only 2,000,000 workers reported making minimum wage or less (yes, LESS than minimum…what a strange world…). Anyway, redoing the math, I found to my dismay the average of our hedge fund CEO and our 2 million workers was increased to an amazing $10,799.99. Wow.

I also found an article at heritage.org about increasing the minimum wage to $6.65. It stated that 7.1 million workers would be affected - those at minimum now and those between minimum and $6.65. Using those numbers (7.1 mil x 6.65 x 40 x 51 - I was generous, I gave them an extra week of work…), my new average salary of the workers and our CEO is a whopping $13,706.84. Yikes, don’t spend it all at once. Teaching is looking pretty lucarative - even if I spend $500 on supplies…

Now, of course, this doesn’t factor in the number of people working more or less than 40 hours, taking more or less vacation, working less than a whole year, or undocumented or under-the-table work. Which brings to mind the old quote of Mark Twain (or Benjamin Disraeli, depending on the source): “There are three kinds of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

Peace, y’all - don’t breathe the ozone!

By Lee

July 29, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

You have to remember that public schools are government entities. For those of us who live in the “real” world, the government appropriations and budgeting process is the most convoluted process ever devised. This is why it is frustrating for teachers to be lacking classroom necessities, but yet the schools seem to have money available for frivolous items.

That said, my wife is a teacher and the $500-1000 annual expenditure sounds about right. However, I would also say that some of that money is spent on things that she “wants” for her classroom rather than a dire necessity. I would equate it to the leather briefcase that I just bought for my job. I will use this briefcase exclusively for work, but I paid for it with personal funds. I really didn’t “need” the briefcase to do my job, but it is a convenience for me to have it.

Bottom line, teachers are spending their money on items for the classroom. Some are necessities, some aren’t. However, until the teachers take the time to wade through the red tape and request these items, school administrators will sit back and allow them to spend their personal funds for school expenses.

By TLB

August 3, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

Wow. This thread is amazing. As a taxpayer, I gathered that teachers were spending their own money on supplies when I saw the $250 deduction allowed on my Form 1040. As a homeschooler, I wondered if I was eligible for this deduction—NOT. I would estimate we spend around $250/year (currently) to home educate our two kids. This includes books, supplies, and a few field trips. This is slightly less than in the past, since we are now using older sister’s hand-me-down textbooks. We ouselves are considered poverty-level, with an income of around $20K for our family of five. I could send them to public school and get myself a “real” (paying) job, but the importance of my kids’ educations goes beyond dollars and cents. I believe our efforts have been blessed.

I think that since public schools ARE government entities, the issue of teachers having to buy supplies should be investigated for criminal wrongdoing somewhere up on the foodchain. This is pure nonsense. We as taxpayers have a right to know WHAT the money is being spent on. Is there a report somewhere that lists school expenditures line-by-line? Is it available to the public? This is simply outrageous.

BTW, teachers, I have all the respect in the world for you and your plight. I have enough trouble getting my own two kids motivated to learn at times, and I truly believe you are up against some severe problems (e.g. non-English-speaking parents/students, the difficulty of varying aptitudes/abilities in students, excessive administrative paperwork). However, I feel that “poverty” should not be an issue, considering the huge amount of money spent on education through our tax dollars. And surely, teachers should not be subjected to poverty because of their own dedication to their students.
Stand together and make enough stench about this that the administrators will cower in fear….Something’s rotten in Denmark! Come on, AJC, we’re depending on you for the facts.