By jim d

March 10, 2009 9:21 AM | Link to this

While giving schools the ability to remove students would help, I seriously doubt it would be used in the case of students with well connected parents. I also suspect entailing law suits from organizations like the NAACP would limit the schools aability to actually use this tool to it’s fullest potential.

As for assult having to be reported? I thought it was already a crime not to report certain assult charges and unless I’m mistaken, parents already have the right to bring charges against someone assulting their child.

By A start

March 10, 2009 9:45 AM | Link to this

Yes this bill would help, if for no other reason than to give schools one less reason to be spineless. What would really help would be if the bill had strict penalties for school systems not following the law, given the number of school systems that routinely violate tribunal law as it stands now.

By Ernest

March 10, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this

I recall several bloggers in the past that compared discipline stats with police calls to a particular school and found discrepancies. It still gets back to ‘who decides’ whether an act rises to the level to be called assault or battery. Will this bill take away the ability for the school official to use judgment? Sometimes in creating laws that we think will help end up causing ‘unintended consequences’.

By bearcasey

March 10, 2009 10:17 AM | Link to this

Bullies are usually, but not always, DUMB, but often just smart enough to realize that they are dumb. This hasn’t changed since I entered high school in 1963. Bullying was their way of gaining “respect.” What HAS changed since 1963 is the school systems’ willingness to make excuses for bullies. Oh, he has ADD or is “bi-polar” or has… blah, blah, blah.

Bottom line? I don’t care what his medical diagnosis is! Send bullies to special “bully schools” and let social darwinism take its course.

By VOICE

March 10, 2009 10:23 AM | Link to this

I think the bill would help. Mandatory police notification is a plus. Whether an act can be defined as an assault or battery should already be spelled out in the student handbook and local school board policy.

By Take away the judgement Earnest

March 10, 2009 10:25 AM | Link to this

Earnest,

I totally see your point in not wanting to take away common sense judgement, but unfortunately schools have lost the right to the benefit of the doubt because of the sheer number of times they have swept violent assaults under the rug, as has been reported more than once in this paper.

What really needs to happen is that there needs to be stiff penalties for administrators who bully teachers; bully them into not reporting assaults on their person, and retaliate against them with bogus evaluations when they do.

By V for Vendetta

March 10, 2009 10:37 AM | Link to this

Is the state going to provide lawyers to help combat all the lawsuits that will crop up as a result of this? (Many stemming, no doubt, from parents who are on the free and reduced lunch program!)

This won’t change anything. Maybe instead of passing worthless legislation like this, they should take a good, hard look at the idea that free and public education is a RIGHT. If it weren’t a right, many of these problems would cease to exist.

By high school teacher

March 10, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this

When we place a bully in another school, we send one of two messages:

A bully is a bully because of his environment. If we change his environemnt, maybe he won’t be a bully anymore.

OR…

We are tired of this kid bullying the students at our school, so we are transferring him so that he can bully kids at another school.

How about simply removing the bully from the general school population and placing said bully in alternative school?

By Reality

March 10, 2009 11:04 AM | Link to this

A bully is a bully regardless of what school they attend. There will always be a victim.

Allowing for a bully to go to another regular school is a mistake and will simply move the problem from one school to another.

How many chances are we to give? How many victims must there be? Why are we so concerned with these bullys and their parents? Just kick them out of school entirely and force them to pay for private school!

By Jeff

March 10, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this

Bullies are simple to deal with:

First, I would STAND UP TO THEM. No bully every stopped me once he was fully aware of my POWER. By standing my ground, I made my point. I proved to that bully that I was not to be messed with. However, there are other alternatives:

• kneecap the bully with a club of some kind

• turn the bully’s pets inside out and hang them from various trees in his yard.

• pour acid on the bully’s backpack.

• stash fertilizer in the bully’s house along with building schematics and blueprints. call the cops.

• set fire to the bully’s eyes.

• cover the bully’s bed with fleas.

• give the bully bird flu.

• replace the bully’s family with robots.

These are simple solutions, but there are others. Be creative. Show the bully your POWER and that FORCE will be MET WITH FORCE. No bully ever deterred me from my twenty-five years of human observation. I will not be stopped by a bully. If you’ve ever read a Tom Clancy book, you know that bullies are swiftly dealt with. In fact, most of them get taken out with a fifty ton thermonumclear warhead attached to an intercontinental ballistic missle traveling at mach 3.6. Let that be a lesson to you bullies! Don’t mess with my FURY!

By V for Vendetta

March 10, 2009 11:17 AM | Link to this

Whoa. What was THAT about?

By jim d

March 10, 2009 11:33 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

great stuff, but check your sugar level. ;)

By Joy in Teaching

March 10, 2009 11:34 AM | Link to this

Wow. Psycho alert.

By Old School

March 10, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this

Wow! Jeff still drives a Plymouth Fury? You can bet I won’t be messing with him.

As for other bullies, could we start with the legislature and DOE and work our way to local school boards? Then maybe we instructors could actually TEACH!

By DB

March 10, 2009 12:44 PM | Link to this

How is transferring a bully going to solve the problem of the bully? It’s a short-term solution to a long-term problem, but at least it gives the victim some breathing space. But how long before the bully finds a new victim? They almost always do.

I don’t think the school calling the police is going to solve anything. Police are already overburdened, and I can see school scuffles becoming a low-priority response. Heck, in some schools, there’s already a full-time policeman on campus, anyway. If a case is egregious enough, the parents will call the police.

And I disagree with sending the bully to an “alternative school.” Education is not a right — it is a privilege. Abuse the privilege, and you lose it. If you’re enough of a bully to require removing from the school population, then you should be denied the opportunity for a public education, and your parents have to figure out how to educate you from here on out.

By Stacey

March 10, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this

Since we are too PC to kick them out of school completely, I vote to give them their own school (steel cage or bull-pen works just fine) and just have a UFC style “Last Man Standing” match. No need to bother with teachers since no one will actually be there to learn anyway. Just provide a few guards and referees. Of course, they will need to hire plenty of cafeteria worker since lunch is the reason most of them go to school.

By the way, although my post is sincere, I’m being (slightly) sarcastic.

By Detta

March 10, 2009 2:22 PM | Link to this

jim d,

Why would you think the NAACP would file a lawsuit against schools that removed bullies? If there’s a law, rule or regulation in place about bullying and those laws, rules and/or regulations are applied equally and justly to all students, I can’t foresee a problem.

By Dilly

March 10, 2009 2:25 PM | Link to this

Do to them what used to be done to misbehaving students back in the day. Paddle the crap out of them and they’ll eventually see the err of their ways.

By phil

March 10, 2009 2:27 PM | Link to this

Here is the problem with bullying. Teachers have to catch it when it is occurring or nothing is going to happen. Two, bullies are bullies for a reason; power. Take away their power over other kids. All right there comes a time in every students life when they get bullied in way or another. And no legislation from the state is going to help that. And no kid is going to tell on a kid for bullying for fear of making things worse. my suggestion is to put kids in charge of bullying. SOme bullying inforcement task force or something. One bully has power but not over a group. Take away their power and their bullying becomes non existant. Otherwise I suggest the kids start sticking up for themselves or its going to continue.

By Christina

March 10, 2009 2:32 PM | Link to this

The word BULLY is thrown around waaayyyyy too much in school these days. Kids will be kids and they WILL get into fights. That is the law of the jungle. Parents - keep right on interfering with silly kid stuff and you can raise a whole nation of kids who want their parents to solve all their problems, even as adults. If your kid is getting picked on tell them to FIGHT BACK! That is the ONLY way to deal with a real bully.

By high school teacher

March 10, 2009 2:34 PM | Link to this

Detta, that has already happened in many systems that have sent more black students to alternative school than white students. jimd’s right.

By Dr. Craig Spinks/Augusta

March 10, 2009 2:35 PM | Link to this

Put men- not “wussy” male- volunteers in public schools and see what happens to the prevalence of bullying. Drs. Dana Bedden and LaMonica Lewis of the Richmond County School System have done so and are pleased with the results.

By vlscpa

March 10, 2009 2:40 PM | Link to this

Jeff, you’ve got to be kidding. These schools have too much tolerance for bullies, but they have ZERO TOLERANCE for any kid who tries self-defense or retaliation. They get the same treatment as the bully, and maybe worse. I’ve lived it, and it’s why we’re raising a country full of robots whose only challenges are video games.

By By Parent

March 10, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this

My child recently had dealings with a bully at a local high school. This kid terrorized others as well. I’ve spent many hours at the school trying to get them to do something about this kid. There were several documented incidents where this kid was suspended (in school and out) and his parents called in for meetings. It really came to a head when this kid made a deadly threat (one of many) to another kid and it just so happened that an administrator and teacher heard the threat and pulled both students in the office. The kid who was threatened confirmed that the bully had made the threat and at that time asked to press charges. Needless to say, since the bully was well known for his threats and sometimes actually making good on them, he was suspended, there was a tribunal and he was subsequently removed from the school. Apparently suspending this kid and meeting with his parents did not phase him at all. I say if parents won’t get a handle on their unruly kids, KICK their BUTTS out so other kids can enjoy the experience of getting an education — in peace.

By reserviorDAWG

March 10, 2009 2:48 PM | Link to this

Teach children self defense and then they will smack the bully in the mouth.

By K-DAWG

March 10, 2009 3:10 PM | Link to this

Y

By pat

March 10, 2009 3:17 PM | Link to this

As I teacher, I and my colleagues often have to “write up” a kid for misbehavior, be it bullying or something else. There are certain students whose offenses get swept under the rug simply because our administrators dread dealing with those particular PARENTS. Parents make excuses for their kids. Parents don’t reinforce the school discipline. Until we get better parents, schools are only going to get worse and th world is going to you know where in a handbasket.

By Alvin

March 10, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this

Amen Christina.This is life if we run away from bully instead of faceing them we will always be running. Stand up to it early in life and they will know how to deal with that and other problems later in life. Why does this blog always turn into a Black and White issue? You act like only Blacks are bullies.SAD!!!!!

By Scalia

March 10, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this

I agree with Vendetta about the lawsuits. I have noticed that most of the kids that are unruly and bullies are usually the ones that have been placed in Special Education.

And in some school systems, you can only suspend a special ed. kid so many times in a year. I think that it is 5. The kids know that after the fifth time, the kid can do whatever he wants to do without being kicked out because he or she is special ed with a “behavior disorder”.

By Just Saying the Obvious

March 10, 2009 3:28 PM | Link to this

Why is it that in the workplace a bully would be fired, arrested and possibly sued, but we can’t protect our children in public schools?

By catlady

March 10, 2009 3:33 PM | Link to this

If you don’t call it bullying, it won’t be treated as bullying. So, first you have to acknowledge that it is bullying. Make a law about truth first.

By coolbean

March 10, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this

Hey jim D

why mention naacp?

By Delia

March 10, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this

As a society, we need to fight for this because kids are always cruel but they are worst these days. For one, they have access to too much info via internet or television. Secondly, parents are not teaching children to be empathetic. As a teacher, I have witnessed students being terrorized for just sitting quietly. The students now are very mean, and say/do things that would surprise adults.They are even mean to other adults in the building, like custodians, and cafeteria workers.

I think the person who was referring to the NAACP was trying to imply that you may have parents who try to make this a racial incident and call these groups to fight for their child. I hope this does not occur. Unfortunately, I do see more African-American males being pernalized.

By williebkind

March 10, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

Well, I was bullied once and I punched him in the mouth and then it was on—yeah I got the worse of it but it stop it cold. But I guess you progressive thinkers do not believe in personal responsibility like protecting yourself. That is the government’s job.

Thats right “MAKE A LAW”!(OMG) We have no right or responsibility to teach our kids to defend themselves but just report it. (GEEEZE!)—what a bunch of whimps!

You can only stop bullying at peer level but that is not taught in our socialist colleges today and defenintely not in the liberal home. Therefore YOUR kids will always be victims! I know! You can sue or create another hate crime!

By Delia

March 10, 2009 4:12 PM | Link to this

Also be careful, telling kids to retaliate. Retaliation can take things to another level.

By jim d

March 10, 2009 4:17 PM | Link to this

Cool bean,

Why? well i thought it would be rather obvious that organizations of this nature, in efforts to protect, would view this as another attempt to segregate our schools again, rather than an attempt to purge our schools of trouble makers.

and yes there are a few unscrupulous people in positions of power that might use this as a tool to take us back to the 50’s and 60’s

By jim d

March 10, 2009 4:20 PM | Link to this

Great idea Doc,

there are programs out there that actually place dads in the schools. It has been suggested at at least one high school in Gwinnett and flat turned down for fear of a lawsuit should anything happen.

By David S

March 10, 2009 4:27 PM | Link to this

First the schools call the police on kids with aspirin. The police show up and tazer the kids regardless of age. Now you need a law because schools don’t have the power to deal with kids that assault (a real crime by the way, just in case you have been so brainwashed by the government and can no longer recognize a REAL crime).

The real question that should be asked is WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO HATE YOUR CHILDREN SO MUCH THAT YOU WOULD SEND THEM TO THESE GOVERNMENT PRISON AND ABUSE CAMPS????????

You never head discussions like this regarding private schools or homeschools yet you all bash these as being elitist or “limiting social skills.” So bullying is the kind of social skill you want your kid to learn - or worse, suffer.

Remember, Columbine is exactly the kind of “socialization” kids get at government schools. The private sector could do such a better job for way less than they currently charge if only every parent were forced to pay their own child’s way or beg for charity.

Has it not occurred to any of you that this same discussion has been going on for at least 50 years? Do you honestly think that the government that continues to employ and promote failed individuals will ever fix a school system that they fund, not through customer satisfaction but through theft??

By ihorizon

March 10, 2009 4:43 PM | Link to this

My husband and I had similar traumatic experiences of being teased constantly daily at each of our schools because of our handicaps (both of us hearing impaired) and my scolerosis. We were called ugly names and we endured the torment. Sometimes even some of the teachers were abusive. We didn’t “sue” as it simply was not thought of back then. My parent definately couldn’t afford to send me elsewhere so I just buckled down and studied even through the tears. My husband was able to go to private school once his parents learned of the situation. Many of us quietly took the abuse and prayed for the day to graduate. I was blessed with having one sweet dear sweet teacher who taught the handicap and she watched over me during my middle and high school years, I wouldn’t know where I would be today. Lord, I know she is in heaven today and I sure do miss her. Even then I knew God was watching over us. Once I graduated, I received a scholarship and got my degree. There I met my future husband and we moved north GA. It wasn’t till after we were married that he mentioned his school years and his pain came out. There were times when years later some of those we knew as bullies were now our friends as adults. Sometimes we have to forgive as hard it may be.

By Bug Juicy

March 10, 2009 4:43 PM | Link to this

By all means; ship them away and make their parents lives as inconvenient as possible. Maybe this will be wakeup call enough to get the parent to stop doing what they’re doing to bring out that type of behavior in their kid(s) or start doing something to change their behavior. Please forgive my strong bias but I was bullied relentlessly as a kid and one of my kids seems to be headed down the same path…

By the Carnivore

March 10, 2009 4:45 PM | Link to this

We had a middle school fight in the 8th grade between a known bully and yet another victim with at least 50 kids watching. The principal ran out of his office down the hallway and slammed the bully’s face into a row of lockers, then physically dragged him back to his office. After the school nurse treated the wounds to his face, the principal called the bully’s parents in and told them either to move out of the school district or find another option for their son, because he wasn’t ever setting foot in that school again (and he never did).

That was 28 years ago. Have adults gotten so afraid that they can’t solve the problem? Is the threat of litigation so high that inaction is the only alternative?

By Jennifer

March 10, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this

Transfer someone who has been found guilty of bullying to a different school ? That makes no sense.

If someone is guilty of the legal definition of bullying then the right placement for him/her is an alternative school with appropriate social services as needed. You don’t just transfer a problem to a different school. Now, the issue of a transition back to the same school upon completion of the alternative school where the victim still attends, that is a different story. But the initial placement should be the alternative school.

Also, the schools do report assault and battery to the police in our district (Gwinnett) and I would be very surprised if they did not in other counties.

The bill sounds like another personal reaction to some local incident.

By Michael

March 10, 2009 5:18 PM | Link to this

Bullies are just part of the problem. The Metro Counties have forsaken discipline and their scores have fallen through the floor. DeKalb used to have the highest scores in GA and now they cuddle thugs. Gwinnett is now following their footsteps. Sad Times.

By Ray

March 10, 2009 5:22 PM | Link to this

the Carnivore,

Yes - that happens today and the principal goes to jail and loses his house.

While I agree with how he handled the situation back then, today he would be taken to the cleaners by the same community trash that trumpets today’s schools as ‘failing,’ the same political trash that says teacher accountability is the root of the problem, when only 1 in 200 is actually a turd.

Sadly, today’s schools are society’s scapegoat. In reality, they are a direct reflection of the community - that’s why the schools in the middle of the big houses work just fine.

Today’s poltical machine knows that to ‘fix’ schools they would have to build schools, hire teachers, create decent jobs for parents, and hold those parents accountable. Whole lot easier just promising tax cuts and blaming teachers.

By catlady

March 10, 2009 5:28 PM | Link to this

jim d doesn’t need me to speak up for him but if you follow the news you know exactly what he is talking about. I believe it was in Gwinnett County, as a matter of fact, or maybe it was Dekalb.

As to bullying, the apple doesn’t usually fall far from the tree. Bring in a bully’s parent to talk to him/her, and you will likely see where it comes from. At least, in my experience, about 90% of the time, the parent is aggressive and inappropriate, feels aggrieved constantly, and needs to throw his/her weight around.

And these bullying kids will pass it down to their kids.

I’d like to see kids not have to sit in class with those who have been sexually harrassing them, either. When my daughter was having a problem with that (being grabbed, touched, spoken to in a terribly sexual manner) back in 1993, we were told that the boys involved “had rights, too” and did not have to be moved out of the room until after their appeals had run the course. My daughter, however, could pay the price for being harrassed and be moved out of her classes. Even though she was threatened by female friends of the boys (football stars, all) she stood up to the boys and confronted them and all but one confessed. His aunt, who was raising him, vowed to sue the school and me but later reconsidered and he admitted what he had done. At that time, the Athens school system had NO mention of student on student sexual harrassment on the books. Thankfully, although my plea to the board was ignored, when my daughter went before the board and recounted her experience, they got busy and drafted a totally unsatisfactory response. She went again, and was allowed to help write rules that would better protect the victims of this type of assault.

Too often, with many of the assaults at school, we just say it is “boys being boys” or “kids being kids” instead of aggressively putting a stop to it.

BTW, one of the principals in that system held that if there was a black on white assault, the whilte kid had ALWAYS done something to trigger it. How about that!

By Jesse's Girl

March 10, 2009 6:09 PM | Link to this

Aw Jeff…I miss you!!! Set his eyes on fire!!! LOVE IT! I am happy to report that here in Paulding County, bullies are dealt with rather nicely. We have cancelled our alternative school program. This was where all of our multiple offense bullies were sent…along with our drug abusers and general fart heads. But now….they have nowhere to go!!! Once your child reaches the offense that would have landed him/her in alternative last year….they are expelled from Paulding County Schools. Since it is against the law to NOT educate your child, the parents are forced to either homeschool or pay for private school. If they chose to homeschool, the Sherrif’s Dept is notified along with Dfacs and the family is monitored to ensure that the child is being eduated properly. I LOVE IT!!!!

By Dr. Craig Spinks/Augusta

March 10, 2009 7:13 PM | Link to this

jim d, the phobia about lawsuits is a figment of the imaginations of - to borrow the phrase from that late, former U.S. VP and moral cipher, Spiro Agnew - “effete, pusillanimous” local school board attorneys and members with the tacit cooperation of local school superintendents and state legislators unwilling to lead a concerted effort to reestablish ADULT CONTROL of all of our public schools.

By Lee

March 10, 2009 7:57 PM | Link to this

A few observations:

• Transferring a bully to another school is about the stupidest idea I have heard. Transfer to an alternative school (I think we used to call them “reform schools”) does have merit. Kicking them out on their butt has the most appeal.

• School administration and faculty have a DUTY TO ACT. Simply put, if they witness an assault on one student by another, they must act.

• School administration have an incentive not to act, though. Too many assaults or other crimes get reported and the school gets classified as a persitantly dangerous school. When that happens, principals start getting moved.

• As a result, too often, an assault gets misclassified as a simple “fight” when the victim tries to defend themselves against their attacker.

• If that happens, good luck going to the police to file charges. They will ask the principal what happened and when they reply “a fight,” the police will simply tell you that you have no basis to file a complaint. Continue to press the issue, and they will file a charge on both the victim and attacker for an “affray,” which is basically a fight. In essence, the school administration has stripped you of your rights to redress in the criminal court system.

Bottom line, school personnel have a duty to act and are required to provide a safe environment for all students. As much as I hate to suggest it, if your child is being bullied and you don’t want to move them, get a lawyer.

By Dr. Craig Spinks/Evans

March 10, 2009 11:53 PM | Link to this

Lee, I agree with your 7:57 PM comment. Weak and/or deceitful school officials will force the use of the civil law against them by parents and guardians seeking to protect their children.

By bearcasey

March 11, 2009 8:44 AM | Link to this

I certainly hold no brief for bullies. However, a lot of what gets called bullying is simply an inappropiate response to “”smart a$$ talk” from other kids.

My dad used to say: “don’t let your mouth overload your a$$.” I think he picked that up during his time in the 101rst Airborne.

The point is that some overprileged kids need to button up their lips.

Zero tolerance for true bullies, though.

By jim d

March 11, 2009 9:20 AM | Link to this

doc,

7:13 pm was a very astute abservation and 100% on the money IMHO.

you really should have seen the reaction to recomending that parents on patrol in the hallways would help “keep the peace”

By jim d

March 11, 2009 9:35 AM | Link to this

the fact is that most bullies don’t bully in the presence of an adult.

Reducing this activity in kids can easily be accomplished if parenst would become involved with their schools, establishing a POP’s Program and becoming visible.

just google pops parents on patrol to learn how the prograam works, then appraoch your pta to see if you can get the ball rolling. After aall, don’t your children deserve a safer school environment