A Q&A with Oliver Stone

9/11 film beats 'rap on politics'

In many people's opinion, Oliver Stone doesn't just court controversy. He buys it dinner and tickets to a Broadway show.

With movies like "Platoon," "Salvador," "JFK," "Born on the Fourth of July" and "Natural Born Killers" on his résumé, it's no wonder the Oscar-winning director has a hot-button reputation of sorts. Perhaps that's why one of the most controversial things about his new film, "World Trade Center," is how uncontroversial it is.

FRANCOIS DUHAMEL/Paramount Pictures (enlarge photo) "The lie has been, Oliver Stone makes up history," says the director of "JFK" and other controversial films. Oliver Stone's "World Trade Center" is a straightforward account of two Sept. 11 victims' triumph. Paramount Pictures Read reviews of "World Trade Center."

Based on the true story of two New York Port Authority cops who were pulled out of the rubble after the towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, the movie plays it straight — it keeps politics, one of Stone's favorite topics, out of the picture, so to speak.

During a conversation last week at the Ritz-Carlton Buckhead, the confident, well-spoken filmmaker — who, in his open-collar shirt and dark jacket, seemed practically conservative — talked about his new film, a few of his old films and being Oliver Stone.

Q: When the word came that you were making a movie called "World Trade Center," I think a lot of people thought, Uh-oh, he's going to create a controversy, he's going to sensationalize a national tragedy. Why would that be?

A: I got politicized a long time ago. My films were seen as one thing or another. I was surprised, frankly. There's an Oliver Stone they talk about, and he's not me. I mean, this is a ball of years. Twenty, 30 years, going back to "Midnight Express" [the 1978 film that won him his first Oscar, for best adapted screenplay] even. Years of confusions and repetition of lies.

A big one, for instance, was "JFK." The lie has been, Oliver Stone makes up history. He falsifies history. Brainwashes children. He would have us believe the idiot theory that 25 government agents, along with Lyndon Baines Johnson, killed John F. Kennedy. The true meaning of that film was a question about what reality is in politics, what surface events mean. All the language was suppositional, except for [Jim] Garrison's feelings at the end of the trial. And even some of that was suppositional.

The rap on the politics [in my movies] is really about statements I've made between the films. I could be faulted for that. I did shoot myself in the foot for saying things. But I don't believe in being censored. Because I'm a filmmaker and a celebrity, people think I have no right to talk. But I say to you, I do have the right to talk. I've earned the right to talk. I served my country. I did my time. Paid my taxes. Had children. All that [expletive].

Q: But you do see that you're a hot-button personality to people, even when it's not a politically themed movie. People seem to react very personally to you and your work.

A: I became a hot button, especially on that film ["JFK"]. But "Natural Born Killers" added to it. And probably "Born on the Fourth of July" and "Platoon" [Stone won best-director Oscars for the latter two]. By the time I made "The Doors," with the drugs, I was a "raving lefty."

Q: Where were you when you found out America had been attacked on 9/11?

A: Nothing exciting. I was in L.A. Asleep. The time zone difference. My wife woke me up and turned on the TV. It was pretty shocking stuff.

I'm not a pacifist or a bleeding heart liberal, as some people say. I believe in measured vengeance. Two thousand al-Qaida fighters killed 3,000 people. I'm all for going after those 2,000 and, when it became necessary, the Taliban. The world was with us, and I think I show that in the movie. That was the right war, the one Dave Karnes [the Marine who discovered the trapped men] should've gone to. Instead, he went to Iraq, which seems to me a confusion. A confusion I don't understand.

Q: One of the things that ran through my mind after the movie was the line from "Manhattan," where Mariel Hemingway says to Woody Allen, "You gotta have a little faith in people."

A: I can't say that's the original reason. It was just a great story, and it was true. It came to me out of the blue. I wasn't thinking about a 9/11 movie, but Andrea Berloff wrote this script that had these five figures in it. [The police officers, John McLoughlin and Will Jimeno, are played by Nicolas Cage and Michael Peña, with Maria Bello and Maggie Gyllenhaal as their wives and Michael Shannon as Karnes.]

They were inspirational to me. I'd never thought of it that way. As a microcosm. These people dug in. They didn't give in to fear. They found their courage. Their faith, you can call it. The metaphysical thing that exists, the evidence of things unseen. They dug in and connected in a kind of collective dream, a collective unconscious. It's a web, a thread, between five people.

Q: You've said your movies are an emotional barometer for you. Where does "World Trade Center" find you?

A: It was good to come back home after being in Iran for three years [for "Alexander"]. To come back to this country, which is at war, and go back to the bottom of the cellar, so to speak. This country was raped collectively, and this is like going back to the therapist and saying, I want to know about the day of the rape. That's where you start. Realism. Then let the demons out.

I didn't know about these guys until 2004. And this Marine. At our first screening, we handed out cards, and the audience thought we'd laid in a Hollywood B-movie on top of the reality. They were shocked. They thought it [his character] was all [expletive].

But it wasn't. This was the guy exactly. I saw him on TV doing interviews. And he really did go to Iraq.

Q: Speaking of going to war, in 2007, it will be 40 years since you were in Vietnam. Looking back, what do you see? And looking forward?

A: (shaking his head): Forty years goes like ... it's all moments.

The irony of it is, I was very pessimistic when I was young. Who else would go to Vietnam at age 19 to commit suicide? As I've become more realistic in life, I've become more optimistic. Because you have a better sense of the negative, and, knowing the negative, the darkness, you appreciate the light more. It makes you more optimistic when you do get the light. When you're younger, you take it a little bit more for granted.

Q: I once read an item about you in The New Yorker.

A: (interrupts) Oh, no.

Q: You were having lunch with your mother.

A: (small sigh of relief) Oh, that was another one.

Q: She said she came to this country from France after the war (to join her American husband), and she was the only woman on a huge ship with 1,500 men. And she was already pregnant with you and was so nauseated she had to be fed intravenously. And you said, "No wonder I'm the way I am."

A: She's an Auntie Mame type. Not the greatest mother, frankly, but you'll never forget her if you ever meet her.

Q: So you're saying you were shaped in the womb by a lot of testosterone and a little bit of seasickness?

A: (laughs) I was probably throwing up myself.

Q: Someone once wrote that you were part Captain Ahab, part Ken Kesey. Would you add anyone to that list?

A: Oh, yeah. I'd add a few people. Any of the people I've done in my films have affected me. I'm part Nixon, part Garrison, part [Jim] Morrison.

And Alexander [the Great]. I definitely lived through Alexander. I think that was misunderstood as an act of hubris, but what he was to me was the ultimate voyager. The ultimate adventurer.

Q: Which could also, in some way, describe you.

A: Yeah, but I wasn't saying I was Alexander.

Q: Your approach to "World Trade Center" does seem different from many of your earlier films. Not so much a hot issue as a heart issue.

A: I used to be faster. I did 10 movies in 10 years. This movie was no different in its methodology, with the exception of "U-Turn" and "Natural Born Killers," which were fiction. I do my homework. I interviewed, and I interviewed. I interviewed everyone. We have a gold mine here. These two guys are lucid and can talk about it. And process it. This is a gold mine for me, a gold mine for all of us.

You know, the end of "Platoon" has a similar feeling. When Charlie [Sheen] is leaving the jungle, he says something to the effect: We the survivors have an obligation to the dead to remember. And with the remainder of our lives, we must bring a goodness and meaning to this life.

And I think that's why John and Will are here. That's why they're helping us.